List Mgmt. 2024 Father Son watch MKIII. Operation Ashcroft jnr. Featuring various academy boys.

[Jivlain]

 

[Berrygood]

True, still think Wilmot was the best available talent on the board when we selected him given we had quite a few half-backs already at the time but still a great pickup, but Lohmann seems to be a position-based pick due to lack of depth if Cameron or McCarthy had a long-term injury and had some experience so far (with indifference results).

Obviously, wouldn’t expect the club to pick up another small midfielder given Levi Ashcroft “most likely” will be a Lion in 2024, but possibly more small-midfield forward depth wouldn’t be a bad option (if Blake Coleman does get delisted) or another utility player (i.e Harry DeMattia / James Leake type players).

The club can then pick up the best KPP (hopefully KPF) player left on the draft table with Pick 39 and then choose Patrick Snell (academy KPP player for us) with Pick 51 to round off the draft.

What can you tell me about Patrick Snell, I read a little blurb about him, nothing expansive? Is he our only academy kid, do we have others?

 

[Nathan Barley]

What can you tell me about Patrick Snell, I read a little blurb about him, nothing expansive? Is he our only academy kid, do we have others?

We can’t nominate him because he doesn’t qualify

 

[briztoon]

This is what happens with a weak VIC Metro team and SA and WA weren't overly strong as well. I know have Smith and lane on our books as developing ruck types but I have wondered if the club might draft a ruck this draft. Personally can’t see it teams usually just pilfer from others days.

Next year’s WA crop is viewed as significantly weaker than this year’s.

Believe SA is not particularly strong either.

Neither state suffered as much from Covid interruptions and lockdowns, as Vic did.

Will be interesting how the industry reacts if the Northern academies have another strong group next year, but more significantly, if the Northern academies have a lot of top end talents in 2025.

Will be interesting if all four clubs are in finals and can’t match bids on all their top end talent.

 

[dlanod]

I'm not sure how hard they stick to that quote, I thought I remembered reading somewhere that both Wilmot and Lohman were both picks for need/suited what we needed at the time. Might be remembering that wrong though.

It's all tier based. If you've got five guys you rate similarly (and no one wants to trade up), you take the one that most fits needs.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

What can you tell me about Patrick Snell, I read a little blurb about him, nothing expansive? Is he our only academy kid, do we have others?

Kevin Sheehan’s 2023 AFL Draft top prospects: Tall defenders

AFL Talent Ambassador Kevin Sheehan has released profiles on the top tall defender prospects ahead of the 2023 AFL Draft.

www.afl.com.au

Patrick Snell
State: Northern Territory/Queensland
State League Club: Brisbane Lions Academy
Community Club: Southern Districts/Wilston Grange
Date of Birth 18/07/05
Height: 194 cm

Left-footed tall defender who has also shown versatility playing for the Brisbane Lions Academy having the ability to also go forward and have an impact. Was a consistent player in five games for the Lions in the Coates Talent League, averaging 13.6 disposals. He then stepped up to become part of the Allies’ strong defensive unit during the National Championships. Was impressive during testing at the State Draft Combine held in Melbourne with his 3.03 seconds for the 20m sprint showing his speed off the mark.

Patrick Snell

Lions Academy member Patrick Snell is a mobile, versatile and aerially competitive key defender in the draft frame.

central.rookieme.com

 

[briztoon]

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' October ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey delivers his fourth Phantom Form Guide ahead of the 2023 National Draft

www.afl.com.au

 

[briztoon]

Good size and a really fluid mover for his size. Woeful skills though and couldn't hit a barn with a handful of wheat. Probably a below average mark even given his size advantage.

Twomey must be seeing something different.

For what it’s worth, other draft watchers have said the same as you.

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' October ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey delivers his fourth Phantom Form Guide ahead of the 2023 National Draft

www.afl.com.au

 

[RoyBoy17]

I like the look of Tyson Sruck from Eastern Ranges. In terms of AFL qualities I think he has a bit more than most being projected in that 20-40 range. Had a big granny too. Plays mid or half back though which probably means he's not high on the priority list.

I think Will Green is the best and most realistic option for us at pick 30. Lane isn't good enough in my opinion so maybe Will Green and Henry Smith can be our project rucks moving forward once Fort and O are finished up. Also depends on how good Gillet is.

Now that we have Ryan the need for a key forward isn't that high this year. And the ones available at 30 appear to have big deficiencies that hurt at AFL level whether that be lack of size or more common being poor disposal to the point where it's a liability.

Charlie Edwards is a good size for a mid and if he was available I think we might take him just as a best available option.

Are there any gun pressure players in this draft? I'm thinking a Paul Puopolo

28

Paul Puopolo

Age

36

Ht

173cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.9

4star

K

6.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

2.2

2star

T

4.3

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.5

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

17.0

5star

K

8.8

4star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

4.8

5star

G

0.0

1star

type. Apart from maybe McCarthy all our forwards aren't great defensively/ tackling wise. Maybe a shutdown type player (other than Robertson who needs to play full time mid) would be handy.

 

[briztoon]

I like the look of Tyson Sruck from Eastern Ranges. In terms of AFL qualities I think he has a bit more than most being projected in that 20-40 range. Had a big granny too. Plays mid or half back though which probably means he's not high on the priority list.

I think Will Green is the best and most realistic option for us at pick 30. Lane isn't good enough in my opinion so maybe Will Green and Henry Smith can be our project rucks moving forward once Fort and O are finished up. Also depends on how good Gillet is.

Now that we have Ryan the need for a key forward isn't that high this year. And the ones available at 30 appear to have big deficiencies that hurt at AFL level whether that be lack of size or more common being poor disposal to the point where it's a liability.

Charlie Edwards is a good size for a mid and if he was available I think we might take him just as a best available option.

Are there any gun pressure players in this draft? I'm thinking a Paul Puopolo type. Apart from maybe McCarthy all our forwards aren't great defensively/ tackling wise. Maybe a shutdown type player (other than Robertson who needs to play full time mid) would be handy.

Phoenix Gothard

Murray Bushrangers forward Phoenix Gothard is a creative and athletic prospect who makes things happen with ball in hand.

central.rookieme.com

Edit: we have one in our academy for the 2025 draft, Raphael Geesu. Really high on this kid.

 

[mpal6]

Kevin Sheehan’s 2023 AFL Draft top prospects: Tall defenders

AFL Talent Ambassador Kevin Sheehan has released profiles on the top tall defender prospects ahead of the 2023 AFL Draft.

www.afl.com.au

Patrick Snell
State: Northern Territory/Queensland
State League Club: Brisbane Lions Academy
Community Club: Southern Districts/Wilston Grange
Date of Birth 18/07/05
Height: 194 cm

Left-footed tall defender who has also shown versatility playing for the Brisbane Lions Academy having the ability to also go forward and have an impact. Was a consistent player in five games for the Lions in the Coates Talent League, averaging 13.6 disposals. He then stepped up to become part of the Allies’ strong defensive unit during the National Championships. Was impressive during testing at the State Draft Combine held in Melbourne with his 3.03 seconds for the 20m sprint showing his speed off the mark.

Patrick Snell

Lions Academy member Patrick Snell is a mobile, versatile and aerially competitive key defender in the draft frame.

central.rookieme.com

I think he missed our Academy cut off so available in open draft.

May have to go early if we like him/know his game better than other speculative talls after 25.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think he missed our Academy cut off so available in open draft.

May have to go early if we like him/know his game better than other speculative talls after 25.

Wonder if he could slide like Shadeau Brain did. Especially if it’s a short draft

 

[briztoon]

Wonder if he could slide like Shadeau Brain did. Especially if it’s a short draft

I expect he will.

 

[briztoon]

I hope Billy Richardson goes around again with our academy, but plays as a tall defender.

Wouldn’t mind seeing Patrick Snell and Bradley McDonald sign with our VFL team as top ups.

Only thing is McDonald is a Sunshine Coast boy, so would be a long commute for training.

 

[Viceregal]

Only thing is McDonald is a Sunshine Coast boy, so would be a long commute for training.

Catching the train from Landsborough to Springfield Central will only take you approx 2 hours and 10 mins and you don't even have to change trains!

 

[briztoon]

Catching the train from Landsborough to Springfield Central will only take you approx 2 hours and 10 mins and you don't even have to change trains!

Man, that takes me back. Long story, but me and a mate ended up hitching a ride with a truckie from the Etemmogga pub to just over the story bridge. Truckie pulled 2 bottles of Bundy from out of his sleeper, and between the pub and the bridge, me and my mate drank one, and the truckie drank the other.

Moral of the story, don’t jump on a train at Caboolture hungover, if you don’t know which way it’s heading.

 

[Crusha]

Catching the train from Landsborough to Springfield Central will only take you approx 2 hours and 10 mins and you don't even have to change trains!

He could seek guidance from Big O about whether that might be worthwhile ........

 

[jjami15]

Phoenix Gothard

Murray Bushrangers forward Phoenix Gothard is a creative and athletic prospect who makes things happen with ball in hand.

central.rookieme.com

Edit: we have one in our academy for the 2025 draft, Raphael Geesu. Really high on this kid.

I am curious as to how teams might actually look at ‘building’ teams. There has been a move towards putting speed on the ball thanks to teams like Richmond and now Collingwood. It will be interesting to see if we draft more of these types as well.

 

[briztoon]

I am curious as to how teams might actually look at ‘building’ teams. There has been a move towards putting speed on the ball thanks to teams like Richmond and now Collingwood. It will be interesting to see if we draft more of these types as well.

Pretty sure our recruiters started talking about drafting for “run” and outside pace in 2020/2021.

 

[Section 5]

A different view on the 2023 draft quality.
.............

“We hear this every year, as long as I’ve been involved in the game I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone come out and say this is the best draft we’ve had in the last 10 years,” Ablett told SEN Mornings.

“I genuinely believe there is depth in every draft and that’s where the really good recruiting teams have the opportunity to find these guys.”

“Incredibly disrespectful”: Draft expert hits back at clubs on class of 2023

“I prefer to go glass half-full.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[briztoon]

A different view on the 2023 draft quality.
.............

“We hear this every year, as long as I’ve been involved in the game I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone come out and say this is the best draft we’ve had in the last 10 years,” Ablett told SEN Mornings.

“I genuinely believe there is depth in every draft and that’s where the really good recruiting teams have the opportunity to find these guys.”

“Incredibly disrespectful”: Draft expert hits back at clubs on class of 2023

“I prefer to go glass half-full.”

www.sen.com.au

There is not a “different view” on the quality of this draft in that article or from Ablett.

There is commentary that it’s not ideal to publicly criticise a draft cohort, there’s nothing new in that article, even the discussion about shorter lists and drafts, and recruiters finding talent late.

And some of what he’s said is plainly incorrect.

2016 was spoken about as an incredibly deep draft, before the actual draft.

2018 was spoken about as the best top end we’ve seen since 2001.

There really hasn’t been a year, before the covid drafts of 2020 & 2021, where the drafts were talked down.

2022 was talked about the quality depth of talent through the second round.


Ablett has a vested interest with his comments.

Current WA talent pathways boss, and has seen a steady decline in the talent coming out of WA.

To the point where there are lot of WA people bemoaning the level of talent coming through, particularly next year.

That’s been under his watch.


The next discussion we might see, is about the dilution of funding and resources in Vic, as they basically split the funding and coaching when the girls programs were introduced in the old TAC cup.

We’re possibly seeing the impact of that now, with weaker Vic cohorts.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I am curious as to how teams might actually look at ‘building’ teams. There has been a move towards putting speed on the ball thanks to teams like Richmond and now Collingwood. It will be interesting to see if we draft more of these types as well.

Makes me wonder if we are just going to stick with

There is not a “different view” on the quality of this draft in that article or from Ablett.

There is commentary that it’s not ideal to publicly criticise a draft cohort, there’s nothing new in that article, even the discussion about shorter lists and drafts, and recruiters finding talent late.

And some of what he’s said is plainly incorrect.

2016 was spoken about as an incredibly deep draft, before the actual draft.

2018 was spoken about as the best top end we’ve seen since 2001.

There really hasn’t been a year, before the covid drafts of 2020 & 2021, where the drafts were talked down.

2022 was talked about the quality depth of talent through the second round.


Ablett has a vested interest with his comments.

Current WA talent pathways boss, and has seen a steady decline in the talent coming out of WA.

To the point where there are lot of WA people bemoaning the level of talent coming through, particularly next year.

That’s been under his watch.


The next discussion we might see, is about the dilution of funding and resources in Vic, as they basically split the funding and coaching when the girls programs were introduced in the old TAC cup.

We’re possibly seeing the impact of that now, with weaker Vic cohorts.

Wonder this could mean we might see more clubs choose over-aged juniors (19-20 year olds) than underaged earlier on in the draft than previously say.

 

[briztoon]

Makes me wonder if we are just going to stick with

Wonder this could mean we might see more clubs choose over-aged juniors (19-20 year olds) than underaged earlier on in the draft than previously say.

The best U19’s, who missed being drafted in their draft year, usually get drafted in the mid season draft, the year after.

Just my opinion, but most of the mature age talent has been picked out of the lower leagues over the past 3 years.

There hasn’t been much talk about mature age draftees heading in to this draft.

I do expect next years mid season draft to be a strong one.

 

[Section 5]

There is not a “different view” on the quality of this draft in that article or from Ablett.

There is commentary that it’s not ideal to publicly criticise a draft cohort, there’s nothing new in that article, even the discussion about shorter lists and drafts, and recruiters finding talent late.

And some of what he’s said is plainly incorrect.

2016 was spoken about as an incredibly deep draft, before the actual draft.

2018 was spoken about as the best top end we’ve seen since 2001.

There really hasn’t been a year, before the covid drafts of 2020 & 2021, where the drafts were talked down.

2022 was talked about the quality depth of talent through the second round.


Ablett has a vested interest with his comments.

Current WA talent pathways boss, and has seen a steady decline in the talent coming out of WA.

To the point where there are lot of WA people bemoaning the level of talent coming through, particularly next year.

That’s been under his watch.


The next discussion we might see, is about the dilution of funding and resources in Vic, as they basically split the funding and coaching when the girls programs were introduced in the old TAC cup.

We’re possibly seeing the impact of that now, with weaker Vic cohorts.

briztoon, it is still a different view/opinion whether he has a vested interest or not.
A lot of the other stuff you mentioned most likely correct as i don't follow the actual draft process over the years closely.

However, unless you have a crystal-ball there is no way of foretelling what picks say 30-40-50 will reveal.
Three to ten years down the track you will get a better idea how one particular draft worked out.
Some players will thrive in an AFL environment others not so much.
The only reasonable guarantee in the modern draft period is clubs usually get most of the top 15-20 right.

Ablett is right about one thing there are always good players taken 30 plus onward in the draft.
You just have to be good at selecting your players along with a bit of luck.
I don't see this draft any different than previous years.
Not because i follow and watch the young players it is just what has happened in the past.

This draft lacks depth.

I believe there are 14 first round quality kids. Then there are about 17-19 second round quality kids, and that second group contains 3 genuine quality ruck options.

After that, it’s slim pickings, and you’re left looking at some small forward or half back flank options.

Total picks for the last four years were 65, 59, 65, 59 with the average being 62.

Going on your above opinion up to what draft number is that assessment "slim pickings" take us to. Is it 33, 43, 53?
For instance, how many picks to the end of first round does the 14 quality picks go to.
Some articles mention the end of first round could be as high as 27?
Then what pick number will the 17-19 second round quality picks finish at?

Just purely adding them together it only comes to around 33 but that is not how i read your assessment.
I think you would just have said there are just 33 quality kids in the 1st two rounds of the draft to pick 36.

 

[briztoon]

briztoon, it is still a different view/opinion whether he has a vested interest or not.
A lot of the other stuff you mentioned most likely correct as i don't follow the actual draft process over the years closely.

However, unless you have a crystal-ball there is no way of foretelling what picks say 30-40-50 will reveal.
Three to ten years down the track you will get a better idea how one particular draft worked out.
Some players will thrive in an AFL environment others not so much.
The only reasonable guarantee in the modern draft period is clubs usually get most of the top 15-20 right.

Ablett is right about one thing there are always good players taken 30 plus onward in the draft.
You just have to be good at selecting your players along with a bit of luck.
I don't see this draft any different than previous years.
Not because i follow and watch the young players it is just what has happened in the past.


Total picks for the last four years were 65, 59, 65, 59 with the average being 62.

Going on your above opinion up to what draft number is that assessment "slim pickings" take us to. Is it 33, 43, 53?
For instance, how many picks to the end of first round does the 14 quality picks go to.
Some articles mention the end of first round could be as high as 27?
Then what pick number will the 17-19 second round quality picks finish at?

Just purely adding them together it only comes to around 33 but that is not how i read your assessment.
I think you would just have said there are just 33 quality kids in the 1st two rounds of the draft to pick 36.

But it’s not a different view or opinion of the quality or depth of this draft cohort.

There is no critical analysis of the depth of this draft.

He just says it’s unfair to criticise the cohort, that historically there are late kids who outshine their draft position (no argument on that point, but that’s not a different opinion).

This draft has very good depth of flankers, both forward and back. So we’re going to see kids selected late who have good careers.

But that doesn’t change the fact that a lot of clubs have traded out of the second and third rounds, and that predictions are we’ll see the shortest draft on record.

I expect a lot of clubs will pass on later picks, running with a shorter senior list, but taking more picks in the rookie draft, or holding picks for the SSP.

 

[Lace Out]

A coach of Levi(metro and dragons)on the radio before:

Well rounded goal kicking midfielder
Big game player(composure)
Special effort to win b&f as underager in Premiership team
Loves trash talk