Autopsy 2024 in review. Dissapointment, or rebirth?

[gringo2011]

Injury mostly in the midfield killed the season. To get where we did with injuries to Crouch, Dow, Clark, Windhager, Jones, Henry and even Steele saw us play a very young or poor midfield. We managed to lock games up and make them boring in the process.

The forward line also struggled with King and Butler missing a lot of footy and even Snags getting a long lay off.

At the end of the day that injury run got a lot more kids exposed and new talent pushing in. It’s a positive from a negative

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Its been a year of transition, Lyon's game plan seems to have had teething problems, but now seems to have clicked with the group.
Young players who got out and had a run and a few touches are now realising they can take the game on.
Its a concern that we will probably be losing Battle and Crouch, because we would be a stronger team in 2025 with them in.
Our Midfield never seems to be quite strong enough when it comes to winning the ball, and its mostly gotten worse.

2014 Hayes, Armitage, Steven, with help from Dunstan and Montagna.
2015 Montagna , Steven, Armitage , with help from Dunstan
2016 Joey moved to defence , nice one Richo. ( sarcasm), Steven, Armitage , Dunstan , Ross
2017 Steven, Stevens , Dunstan, Ross ( Armitage injured ).
2018 Steven, Gresham, Crippled Armo, Dunstan, Steele , Ross, ( tagging ).
2019 Dunstan, Steele ( still tagging somewhat ), Gresham , Ross ,( Marshall)
2020 Steele, Jones, Ross, Gresham ( but Ross and Gresh both injured for some time ) ( Marshall)
2021 Steele, Dunstan, Ross, Crouch, Some support from Jones. ( Marshall )
2022 Steele, Gresham, Crouch, Ross (Marshall )
2023 Steele, Gresham, Crouch, Ross ( Marshall )

This year Marshall has been our biggest clearance winner. There are 15 players in the AFL who average more clearances than him. Steele is equal 33rd in the AFL ( based on average per game ).
Then our next best clearance player has been Dow , averaging 84th in the AFL. 3.7 clearances per game.

What have we seen over the last few weeks.
Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

influencing games and sometimes winning a lot of the ball, but he needs to run out more than 60% of a game.
Phillipou stringing together some midfield games where he got 5 clearances.
Garcia showing he can win contested ball , expecting to see a lot more of him next year.
Before he was injured Windhager was winning the ball, despite getting tagging roles.

Is it enough to make up for the loss of Crouch?

Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

averages around as many clearances as Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

and Dylan is less likely to get better.
Luke Parker

26

Luke Parker

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.2

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.8

5star

D

22.1

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

9.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.5

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

8.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

averages around 5.

 

[gringo2011]

Its all about the next generation, who's leading this team in the future. I'll take this crop over the 2012-2016 group any day of the week.

I wrote an essay on that whole group covering each young player, might post it later when the season has digested a bit.

Its so hard to accurately gauge the direction we are heading without knowing what happens with the midfield. Are we mixing up the group with younger guys more next year to see what we have, are we bringing in big names, will we return to crouch, a second ruck? Abuse the tag options?. I'm not convinced windows are opening until we compete with the top teams in this area.

But I am exceptionally happy with the young group we have, we could already have the guys we need, just won't know until they peak. So in saying that, I guess it's kind of a rebirth. How could you not lean that way with pou's last month of the season, Wilson looking like a matchwinner, NWM basically being the first option ball user. Owens and Windy battling away respectively. Garcia coming out of no where. Liam Henry has the X factor up front. Sharman suddenly looking like he will be hit a 200 game milestone in his career.

Schoenmaker looks good too.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Schoenmaker looks good too.

He'll need to be if he's going to take over from Battle. No pressure Arie.

 

[Nutsngum]

He'll need to be if he's going to take over from Battle. No pressure Arie.

We will need to be patient with Shoenmakers. He is absolutely a like for like replacement for Battle but he isnt close to the one on one defender that Battle is yet. Hes already a great distributor of the ball but defending is a learned/developed skill and he aint there yet.

That said, Battle took 6 years before really becoming the reliable defender he is so Shoenmakers has plenty of time to develop.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We will need to be patient with Shoenmakers. He is absolutely a like for like replacement for Battle but he isnt close to the one on one defender that Battle is yet. Hes already a great distributor of the ball but defending is a learned/developed skill and he aint there yet.

That said, Battle took 6 years before really becoming the reliable defender he is so Shoenmakers has plenty of time to develop.

So we have a massive hole in the backline for 5 years.

 

[TassieSaint]

Disappointing year with plenty of silver linings. Crouch was a massively underrated loss from our 2023 team. Still miles off a flag but then again the comp seems relatively wide open at the moment.

2025 onwards basically need King to stay healthy and firing, natural improvement out of Nas, Owens, Windy and Philipou and add some more midfield star power.

 

[Diehard Saint]

We will need to be patient with Shoenmakers. He is absolutely a like for like replacement for Battle but he isnt close to the one on one defender that Battle is yet. Hes already a great distributor of the ball but defending is a learned/developed skill and he aint there yet.

That said, Battle took 6 years before really becoming the reliable defender he is so Shoenmakers has plenty of time to develop.

Well not if we want a flag next year

 

[puppy_dog7]

Disappointing year with plenty of silver linings. Crouch was a massively underrated loss from our 2023 team. Still miles off a flag but then again the comp seems relatively wide open at the moment.

2025 onwards basically need King to stay healthy and firing, natural improvement out of Nas, Owens, Windy and Philipou and add some more midfield star power.

Hopefully we can start to transition Wilson, Henry & Garcia into that midfield rotation a bit more next year. Henry looked good when he was thrown in there at times

 

[Nutsngum]

So we have a massive hole in the backline for 5 years.

My point really is more that he wont be to the same level for a while. Doesnt mean he cant be a serviceable backman for that time period. Battle was forward/back for a number of years, so Shoenmakers having a more stable position will likely make a difference.

 

[TassieSaint]

Hopefully we can start to transition Wilson, Henry & Garcia into that midfield rotation a bit more next year. Henry looked good when he was thrown in there at times

Forgot about Henry, we looked much better when he was fit and firing, and he's in a prime age bracket

 

[saintbill]

We need to make King ruck 25% of games next year. Will be good for his tank and get him into games more.

More importantly, will give Marshall a rest down forward where he looks really dangerous.

He is a better player than the last time we tried this in the Paddy Ryder era. Confident he cam kick 30+ a year as a ruck/forward.

 

[RBW_007]

The recent Geelong game is basically our season in a nutshell. Poor first half. Excellent second half.

We had an unsettled season with many players missing a good stretch of games. We've seen guys come into the side and show that they can fill gaps when needed. We got a taste of some of the younger guys that will be pushing to be regulars in the seniors which is good.
I think the Geelong game shows that we have a coaching group that can make good decisions on game day.
I'm not sure what caused the turn around in form in the second half. Either we changed some stuff or it took a while for everyone to get on board. Here's hoping we now have a better idea of how we want to play and we carry that into next season.

 

[jwint43]

There where years not that long ago when I looked at our young players and saw nothing, looked at the team and saw only holes, no substance whatsoever. Now I see guys with talent that should improve and a team of substance with some obvious weaknesses that should be fixable.

Next step, draft as many young mids as we can get our hands on and pray that at least one and hopefully two are brownlow medal quality. Also fix up our misuse of King, kicking it on his head 80% of the time is silly.

So part of the rebirth for me.

Yes. I have said this to a few people, I had to talk myself into Billings, Dunstan, Mccartin, Acres etc. I can already see it in Pou, Nas, Wilson, Owens and the like. The most dynamic and exciting player we had was Gresham but he had some cruel injuries for a young player. I know Paddy became a gun when he was at Sydney but he was pretty far off the pace with us.

 

[Ricmel]

I think the season looks better than it was when you look at it today and the last 8 weeks are fresh in the mind. If you went back into the pre-season thread in March and said "I reckon we are going to finish 12th" you would have been hammered.

For me, the only real positives were the progression of NAS, Pou, Wilson, Sharman. That is somewhat negated by the regression of Owens and King.

We have learnt pretty much exactly what we knew in 2023 - we need midfield class.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think the season looks better than it was when you look at it today and the last 8 weeks are fresh in the mind. If you went back into the pre-season thread in March and said "I reckon we are going to finish 12th" you would have been hammered.

For me, the only real positives were the progression of NAS, Pou, Wilson, Sharman. That is somewhat negated by the regression of Owens and King.

We have learnt pretty much exactly what we knew in 2023 - we need midfield class.

People have been saying that for months.
To me , its midfield "Grunt" that we need.
We have players like Clark, Phillipou, Henry who ooze class.

 

[Zzzed]

It was a disappointing season for me overall given we played finals last year. It’s almost like we got these 2 years back to front - with this year being the year of exploration.

Injuries no doubt didn’t help in the first half of the season - but we also made some poor selection choices in the first half also and players also being played out of position.

Owens going from top 5 B&F to barely influential and likely outside the top 10 was disappointing as was another wasted year for Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

On a positive note, the game style looks like it starting to click in the 2nd half - although I still can’t wrap my head around what happened in the thumping we got from Brisbane

The best draft crop we have had in a very long time is absolutely the highlight this year. Wilson will be a star. Lots of promise with the others. Very pleasantly surprised with the big improvement in Pou post his VFL stint. If he continues to improve along with Garcia, Dow and Clark stay injury free, and we pick up a Peatling type our mid field starts to feel a bit more reliable. Obviously we expect to add at least 1 top 10 mid drafted this year and then more mids via draft and trade.

Will leave a sour taste if Battle leaves as expected, and the compo is not Band 1. I hate seeing our mid- age core hollow out again.

I’m not yet convinced we make it back into the top 8 in 2025. So important we nail this next draft if we are going to have a sustained period of being a top 8 contender from 2026 onwards

 

[Saintbloke]

The recent Geelong game is basically our season in a nutshell. Poor first half. Excellent second half.

We had an unsettled season with many players missing a good stretch of games. We've seen guys come into the side and show that they can fill gaps when needed. We got a taste of some of the younger guys that will be pushing to be regulars in the seniors which is good.
I think the Geelong game shows that we have a coaching group that can make good decisions on game day.
I'm not sure what caused the turn around in form in the second half. Either we changed some stuff or it took a while for everyone to get on board. Here's hoping we now have a better idea of how we want to play and we carry that into next season.

The last Geelong game was similar to our season opener against Geelong, where in the first quarter and a half, our midfield looked like they were standing in mud, plus Crouch should never have been selected as he was carrying injury, and that cost us the game. At least in the second game, our forward half and midfield after half time were working better and we could kick a winning score. The slow starts cost us a number of games this season- something Lyon needs to get on top of.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

People have been saying that for months.
To me , its midfield "Grunt" that we need.
We have players like Clark, Phillipou, Henry who ooze class.

Easier said than done but we need grunt players who are about 10-15% more skillful. The class players are already pretty good but some of our grunt players are shocking kicks either through skill or decision making. Means that their efforts to win the ball are wasted turning it over. They don’t need to hit Nasiah type kicks but just successfully pass it off to the better players more often.

 

[Cairnsman]

We are still 2 or 3 years from knowing if this current build will be flag capable. I expect we will still be a North-type middle of the ladder side, meaning if we have incredible luck with injuries then we could make finals but just be making up the numbers.

But equally our list is still very fragile and vulnerable to losing players due to injury and so the list still lacks the depth of talent and experience to cover in-season player losses.

A really important trade period coming up for this current list build. Tasmania's entry into the comp is about to savagely dilute the talent pool even further and for decades to come, it could be the clubs last chance to build a flag capable list before the gambling product enters.

Put your hand up if you were one of the gullible wankas who bought a Tasmanian membership.

But I digress.

So we need to keep nailing 2 or 3 recruits per season for the next 3 or 4 years to hopefully achieve the required depth to challenge.