List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[NYCFC]

Well....Ok...when you put it that way

18 has the lowest number of games played for us in the top 30.
I say we let Walshy play out his career in the 18, and make it a new famous number for the club.
Aren't we trying to make history?
I want everyone who pulls on the jumper, no matter the number, to have a true club great in whose footsteps he can follow.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

If Kemp has the tank I would be trying him in the middle. When we drafted him I thought he had a bit of Koutoufides about him. Tall, quick and good in the air. Has had a good run in defence as Kouta did. But can he play in the midfield with the running requirement? Could be a really good burst mid which is a lot of what we lack. Question is where would his second position be?

I think Kemp is going to be a player who plays a fair bit in and out of the side, mostly defence and will have opposition teams chasing him pretty hard. Probably a future McGovern replacement if we can keep him.

Maybe add a mature age utility and let Kemp stick with what he's doing...

Kye Declase 26 year old from Werribee.
Was on Melbournes list for 6 months in 2021 and should be given another shot on an afl list

A 195cm utility winger that can also play as a key forward or rebounding defender.
Elite ball user, great engine and a strong mark over head.
Averaging 25 disposals, 2 goals and 6 marks a game on the wing.

He’d get a game ahead of a fair few wingers in the comp. Not many guys his size with his running capacity running around in the AFL.

 

[gbatman]

Maybe add a mature age utility and let Kemp stick with what he's doing...

I think come the end of next year, if we have cap space and trade currency we go for a really dynamic fast and complete onballer. A match winner.

The next part of our rebuild is replacing the role players with match winners and upgrading a few. Hollands and Fantasia are hopefully steps in that direction, there is a spot in our onball group that needs an upgrade if we can land a high quality talent with speed and hurt factor in the middle.

Kemp probably is in and out depending on injuries and matchups with the long term view he replaces McGovern.

I think Kemp fell away a bit with his defensive skills. Had a bad one in the Melbourne game playing on a bit more of a dangerous forward. The rest of his game is really good. Still developing.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I'd prefer we kept the famous numbers like 2 & 4 aside until we find a deserving youngster, rather than keep handing them out to the first draft picks every year.

It would be interesting to compare which numbers are the most revered to Carlton supporters.
It would probably change depending on the age of said supporters and which era was etched in their memory.
For me....without thinking too much/first player that enters my head/trigger's a memory.

1 SOS
2 Big Nick/ Diesel
3 Fitzpatrick/Murph
4 Buzz/Sticks
7 Dominator
9 Kenny Hunter
11 Doormat
16 Jim Buckley
20 Southby
21 Braddles
25 Jezza
26 Rhys-Jones
etc.......

 

[Juddernaut08]

We'd need Charlie to be decoy and we play through someone else with May out of the frame.
Go to Charlie only when May tries to zone off. Easier said than done without an obvious someone else.

We do have an obvious someone else. Harry.

Him getting back his confidence and form will have huge benefits for Charlie IMO. More importantly, it'll be a first step in improving our forwardline.

For a forwardline with 2 Coleman medallists, we should be able to get easier genuine looks than we did in 2023. At least one of our big 2 KPFs should consistently have a genuine 1-on-1...or one of our smalls should have a clear lead.

IMO our forwardline operated at below the sum of its parts last year due to movement/strategy. I'd love to see us flip that around with a good system in 2024.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I can imagine Walsh driving to each of the kiddies' houses, saying sorry and then helping them to iron/sew on the new numbers...

You're crazy if you think Walsh is going to drive instead of run.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

We do have an obvious someone else. Harry

I know but that makes Charlie 2nd not 3rd (which I think is fine and what we need is a someone else as a 3rd)

 

[Juddernaut08]

I know but that makes Charlie 2nd not 3rd (which I think is fine and what we need is a someone else as a 3rd)

Jack Martin is as good a 3rd forward as any other team.

The two problems are:
-he has to keep fit.
-Harry has to be a legit 1 or 2.

 

[Soapy V]

Jack Martin is as good a 3rd forward as any other team.

The two problems are:
-he has to keep fit.
-Harry has to be a legit 1 or 2.

I think "potentially" he is a good as anyone but doesn't do it anywhere near enough

29 at the start of next season. He needs to step up

 

[Coona Blues]

T

We do have an obvious someone else. Harry.

Him getting back his confidence and form will have huge benefits for Charlie IMO. More importantly, it'll be a first step in improving our forwardline.

For a forwardline with 2 Coleman medallists, we should be able to get easier genuine looks than we did in 2023. At least one of our big 2 KPFs should consistently have a genuine 1-on-1...or one of our smalls should have a clear lead.

IMO our forwardline operated at below the sum of its parts last year due to movement/strategy. I'd love to see us flip that around with a good system in 2024.

our forward line has been allowed to play very loose structurally. I had high hopes Hansen would improve our system, he has not. Possible more focussed on his senior assistant and ball movement portfolio.

Hoping our old whipping boy in Russell brings a new level of system to the forward mix.

Clearly the opportunity is there if we can keep key players on the park. We can debate Charlie and Harry all day, who plays out of the square, who presents up the ground? Surely the answer remains both.

I like Harry working heavily from the arc up in to the middle and notably wings as a “get out” option, but Charlie can also be effective up the ground. The more we can change up our attack, the better. By having Martin in the park and hopefully Fantasia, we add so much experience and nous to the mix. I rate Corey Durdin as smarter than many of his contemporaries, but the majority of the others are foot soldiers such as Fog and Owies. Elijah Hollands brings a lot of skill and individual game craft to the mix, it remains to be seen how he operates within a unit. The x-factor comes from Motlop, and potentially Cuningham when fit, although a fit Cuners perhaps plays more mid than forward.

I have not yet mentioned Cottrell who I have more high half forward than wing. He has a spectacular work ethic, and is a great role player. He also has a happy knack of finding space in the forward half, suggesting to me he has credentials as a more instinctive weapon.

We have the mix and options to take our forward line to significantly higher levels. Silvagni remains an option as a third tall, who offers as much forward pressure as his smaller team mates when nit pinch hitting in the ruck. The other piece threatening to go to a new level is TDK. He was a decent forward in his formative years, kicking some big bags under age. After a couple of highlights in the twos in his first couple of years, became a problem in attack. Can get in the way of Charlie and Harry, and he lost all confidence kicking for goal, regularly dishing off when within range. He is a good kick, but definitely was as much a victim of the yips as Harry. When our team performance lifted, so did TDK, he played a huge part on the ball as he matured in front of our eyes. While nit prolific, he started taking his shots on goal and kicked some very valuable majors. His yips totally disappeared. Now is a confident viable avenue to goal who can provide an important change up if our Coleman goalkickers are blanketed or absent.

Fun times ahead, I am very hopeful.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Plenty of times this year I kept feeling we were a quality small forward short on the list. Kept looking in the VFL thinking that if Cahill was on the VFL list he would be getting games. Here we have recruited a guy who has had injury problems but is a talented and proven AFL player. The talent and the cost make it worth the risk.

May only need to play one or two good seasons for us to get us what we are looking for which makes it all worthwhile.

More competition for spots in our forward line, better coverage for depth in the forward line as well.

Where does it leaves some of our current crop? Durdin can probably afford some time in the VFL to develop his midfield game and return as a forward/mid. That's what I would like to see from him, really develop some form in the VFL in that role. Motlop will have more pressure on him to do the defensive work, he's a decent goal kicker but lacking some tank and gets burnt when they run the other way. Fogarty if we are progressing probably does not play many games in 2024. Owies. Fantasia is probably seen as a similar player and upgrade on Owies. A faster version. Cuningham because he plays a bit of midfield as well is probably more competing with Hollands.

If we look back, between Ed & Dow, they've played 27 games.
I'm not too sure how many Durdin, Motlop, Owies, Fogarty and Cunningham played

But, that's a lot of games to fill
We've only added three players for 2024: Williams, EH & Fantasia.

There's a lot of games available for these players: Durdin, Motlop, Owies, Fogarty and Cunningham to compete for spots
Anyone else going to step up? Binns? Carroll?

 

[DangerousD]

I thought all year we struggled to kick easy goals against good sides

Reasons could be, poor delivery, connection with midfield plus we have many role players as opposed to dangerous X factor players

Fantasia E.Hollands and the development of Motlop & Durdin will hopefully improve this

Re: Charlie the issue is he isn’t a big forward. Not like McKay. He is just an incredible athlete. If the ball is delivered slowly and sides can get back with numbers he will struggle as he did in finals. Going into this year we need a Plan B & C
Jack coming back in or playing TDK forward may help? Hopefully a Lemmey or O’Keefe start to step up

Was the struggle to kick easy goals against good sides just a product of our contested game style and lack of attack from turnover?

Against better sides who have better players and better systems, isn’t it normal to struggle to score if you mainly rely on scoring from stoppages?

I’m still not sure if it’s personnel based or not but think if we improved our turnover game, then we would get more easy goals.

I think we looked a lot more dangerous taking risks coming out of half back, very interested to see who we target in the draft.

 

[BennyGFunk]

Perhaps it's my rose coloured glasses talking but I genuinely think this football club can win a flag in 2024. With the addition of Williams back in the team, both Hollands (one coming in & one improving- both)
Harry should be much improved re his conversion, Fantasia staying healthy and adding some excitement, hopefully close to a full season from Martin, natural improvement in Motlop, Binns etc.

I am hoping this team can improve just like Collingwood did from 2022 to 2023.

Carlton is my (totally unbiased) tip for the flag. There's so much to be excited about!

Have faith, this team has made a transformation and there's no going back to where we were.

I can't remember being so excited for a footy season to start, with so much time to pass..

 

[Soapy V]

Perhaps it's my rose coloured glasses talking but I genuinely think this football club can win a flag in 2024. With the addition of Williams back in the team, both Hollands (one coming in & one improving- both)
Harry should be much improved re his conversion, Fantasia staying healthy and adding some excitement, hopefully close to a full season from Martin, natural improvement in Motlop, Binns etc.

I am hoping this team can improve just like Collingwood did from 2022 to 2023.

Carlton is my (totally unbiased) tip for the flag. There's so much to be excited about!

Have faith, this team has made a transformation and there's no going back to where we were.

I can't remember being so excited for a footy season to start, with so much time to pass..

We are definitely in the “Window”. It’s now about making it happen

I reckon our defence is awesome.
Our midfield tough and finals ready
Our forward line now has options and multiple goals kickers

IMO we need to improve our skills and also our connection between mid & forward.

Do that and we can beat anyone, anytime

 

[The Bighouse]

It would be interesting to compare which numbers are the most revered to Carlton supporters.
It would probably change depending on the age of said supporters and which era was etched in their memory.
For me....without thinking too much/first player that enters my head/trigger's a memory.

1 SOS
2 Big Nick/ Diesel
3 Fitzpatrick/Murph
4 Buzz/Sticks
7 Dominator
9 Kenny Hunter
11 Doormat
16 Jim Buckley
20 Southby
21 Braddles
25 Jezza
26 Rhys-Jones
etc.......

Some others;
5 Judd / Syd Jackson / Steve Da Rui
6 Matt Clape…
8 Blackwell
11 Porter
12 Gleeson
13 Mil / Curly?
14 Sexton / Ashman
17 Naley
19 Pearce / Betts
20 Fraser Brown
22 Manton *Edit Aitken
23 Rice *Edit Meldrum
24 Allan
25 Fev too
29 Beaumont
30 Fraser Murphy
31 Alvin
32 Glascott
33 McConville / Hogg
34 Ron D
35 Dean
36 Sellers / Hamill (young Sammy)
37 Robertson
38 Harmes
43 Kouta
44 Harry
45 McKenzie

And so on

 

[JuddgementDay]

With the list we have now, three important things has to happen for us to lift the 17th cup in 2024:

1. Luck with injuries
2. Layers to game plan
3. Incremental developments - e.g. TDK to ruck more & clunk a few. H not to have the yips

Not much to ask really
Bring on 2024!

 

[teagueyubeauty]

We need to be top 5 goals from defensive transition to win the flag, it’s the area most in need of improvement and it’s probably the most difficult to improve.

Besides kicking efficiency, the best way of improving this is by the use of leg speed and I just don’t think we’ve improved that through the midfield




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Some others;
5 Judd / Syd Jackson / Steve Da Rui
6 Matt Clape…
8 Blackwell
11 Porter
12 Gleeson
13 Mil / Curly?
14 Sexton / Ashman
17 Naley
19 Pearce / Betts
20 Fraser Brown
22 Manton *Edit Aitken
23 Rice *Edit Meldrum
24 Allan
25 Fev too
29 Beaumont
30 Fraser Murphy
31 Alvin
32 Glascott
33 McConville / Hogg
34 Ron D
35 Dean
36 Sellers / Hamill (young Sammy)
37 Robertson
38 Harmes
43 Kouta
44 Harry
45 McKenzie

And so on

Curly was 21
Harmes and Robertson need to switch?
I'd add Marcou 34
Walls 42
A few of those listed I'm not sure add to the argument

 

[The Bighouse]

Curly was 21
Harmes and Robertson need to switch?
I'd add Marcou 34
Walls 42
A few of those listed I'm not sure add to the argument

Yep, Maylin 13 (curly hair)
Correct 37 & 38 (Shane R) switcheroo
They’re as they pop up & some in jest…
Richard Dennis missing.

 

[gbatman]

If we look back, between Ed & Dow, they've played 27 games.
I'm not too sure how many Durdin, Motlop, Owies, Fogarty and Cunningham played

But, that's a lot of games to fill
We've only added three players for 2024: Williams, EH & Fantasia.

There's a lot of games available for these players: Durdin, Motlop, Owies, Fogarty and Cunningham to compete for spots
Anyone else going to step up? Binns? Carroll?

It's a good question. A lot of hope for Binns to step up. Personally I see another development year for him. I think he will shift from the wing in the VFL and onto the ball in the VFL where he will need a little time to develop there.

Carroll just didn't get going at all last year at VFL level like we had hoped. Spent a lot of time trying to develop his forward game and got nothing going there. I think he will have a similar season to Dow. Stuck in the VFL, pushing his onball game really hard and see where he ends up next season. 35/65 in terms of doesn't make it / makes it.

Durdin IMO should be developed more in the middle of the ground with the intention that he comes into the AFL team as a small forward who can go on the ball and have a solid impact. He's done this at AFL level in spurts but has not been persisted with. Personally as a shorter, quicker player I think he can add a bit to our onball group which IMO is a little tall, immobile and slow as well as lacking rotations but I think he is in for a long stint of development. I think he is very talented and he has it, but he needs to add layers to his game.

Motlop is another player who needs to take his running ability to the next level. The days of the small forward not needing a tank are long long gone. Small forwards without a tank either become defensive small forwards who don't kick goals or unaccountable small forwards who may kick goals but their opponents run off them and get 25-35 possessions each week and are amongst the oppositions best and most damaging players. We have a lot of both types but lack the type that is accountable and kicks goals. Does Motlop improve his running capacity so he becomes a two way running forward? Fair enough not having a tank in your first few seasons but he's a third year player next year, time to improve.

Owies IMO is someone who really benefits from good ball movement. Kicks goals when the ball movement is good. Kicks goals regularly and I haven't noticed that he struggles to defend so I think is underrated a fair bit.

Cuningham I think is a similar player. I think we have criticised him heavily for going missing and not getting enough of the ball but have not rewarded him enough for the defensive efforts he puts in. I still feel that he and Owies missing the prelim allowed Brisbane's half backs to run riot and win the game for them. Can Cuningham become a better two way runner and add more possessions and goals?

Fogarty is your typical defensive forward, he's not going to get it much and when he does he usually burns it. His value is his discipline and ability to have a run on the ball. I am really hoping we have guys coming on who can do this but at a higher level.

Hollands I am hoping will be a player who shifts both Kennedy and Hewett out of the team. That makes them both valuable trade bait. It also replaces one way runners with a two way runner. Cripps is our designated one way runner in the side. Add Hewett and Kennedy who either sit forward of the ball and don't give a heap defensively or sit behind the ball and are missing when we turn it over and go forward, it's a weakness of ours. This is all assuming Hollands goes into 2024 with some really strong ball winning ability, a little forward craft and a good tank and leg speed to actually achieve this.

Fantasia. If he's fit, he's best 22. This is what it comes down to. As with all the above there is an 'if'.

Williams will be a big upgrade, most likely plays those games Cincotta has played. Cincotta is a very good VFL player, serviceable AFL player, good two way runner at VFL level but a one way runner at AFL level. Williams comes in as a high quality two way player. Defends and can get you 20-30 possessions running off his man. Big in.

Boyd we saw become a two way player at AFL level last season, he will be an important in.

I want to see Cowan come on. He became a two way player at VFL level last season which was good solid progress but he is not there yet at AFL level. His speed, strength and kicking will be a value when he get to AFL level.

Then we hit the draft. Picks 22 and 28 will likely be talented players but not likely AFL ready.

So our list is making forward progress IMO. We are seeing more and more role players go from regulars to unable to get a game the last two seasons.

We are a good side so having 3 possible players come in and become best 22 in Fantasia, Hollands and Williams is a really good sign. We hopefully see progression from our youth and injury hit players. Motlop, DeKoning, Hollands, Kemp, Durdin and Cuningham should improve. Binns, Lemmy, Cincotta, Carroll and Cowan should also improve but that does not necessarily mean that gets them in the AFL side but it does make them stronger options.

I think end of next year is when we have to go hard at some higher profile talent, for example, the right sort of mid at a very high quality. Lets just hope some of our older players don't begin to drop off.

 

[CJMB]

I'm not really a fan of switching numbers. Take what you get & own it. If it's a higher or less 'historically significant' number, just means you've got more opportunity to make it synonymous with your name for generations to come.

 

[gbatman]

We do have an obvious someone else. Harry.

Him getting back his confidence and form will have huge benefits for Charlie IMO. More importantly, it'll be a first step in improving our forwardline.

For a forwardline with 2 Coleman medallists, we should be able to get easier genuine looks than we did in 2023. At least one of our big 2 KPFs should consistently have a genuine 1-on-1...or one of our smalls should have a clear lead.

IMO our forwardline operated at below the sum of its parts last year due to movement/strategy. I'd love to see us flip that around with a good system in 2024.

If we can get our ball movement really good we will achieve a lot of this.

The AFL game plan has changed a bit during the last two seasons. How teams move the ball V how teams defend.

One of those things which changed through the course of this seasons is what triggers the opposition to move their team defence into the opposition's forward 50. Basically what triggers the opposition to fall back into a flood rather than try and get to the next kick ahead and turn it over further up the field.

Generally the press is a long kick away. That's how it's been forever, players sit ahead of the ball spread out up to 50 odd metres away. Cut off the shorts, force the opposition to kick long and have the bulk numbers of players waiting for that long kick up the line.

AFL anti-congestion rules have encouraged teams to move the ball quicker, run with it more, run with it from stoppages, go up the middle, switch the ball high up the ground. Basically in an attempt to get the ball around the press, beat the press into the forward 50 and create a situation where forwards have space and one on ones.

What changed at some point this season is that when teams go into the middle or they performed a high switch, teams rather than trying to get to the next kick and reset their press would just concede and fall back into a D50 flood.

This is something which began to happen a lot to us because we have the two big/good forwards. One reason is that Curnow and McKay intimidate the opposition so going into a game against Carlton, it's far more important to take away their space than it is against most sides so teams are really quick to react against us and drop back inside our F50. The other reason was that our ball movement has been slow and terrible, apart from the back end of the home and away season. Our ball movement was elite at triggering the opposition press at dropping back inside our forward 50 and allowing them to do it. When we lost our break away speed from stoppage and off half back and lost that quick and direct ball movement in finals we also lost our forward space and that was why guys like Curnow and McKay etc struggled to score in finals and earlier this season.

One thing we absolutely must get better at next season is our ball movement. Run and carry, two way run, breaking away from stoppages. Linking up with handball and going direct. And the other thing we need to do is once we go in the middle or switch we have to get it forward quickly as we know the opposition are going to make a B-Line towards our forward 50.

This is why I keep saying we need to put more into tactics, opposition analysis and coaching because we have been beaten in these areas. Our coaches and our team need to know when the opposition will flood back so we can really wing it in those moments and go forward at speed.

I would play around with both McKay and Curnow outside our forward 50, see if we can't prevent the opposition flooding the forward line that way. Find other avenues to go forward. The obvious issue with this is that we may get caught out with nowhere to go going inside 50. But it may also prevent the opposition flooding back and open the door for others to score.

The opposition are always going to go out of their way to make sure these guys don't have space and better ball movement is how we generate those forward opportunities where they do.

 

[JJBagger]

If we look back, between Ed & Dow, they've played 27 games.
I'm not too sure how many Durdin, Motlop, Owies, Fogarty and Cunningham played

But, that's a lot of games to fill
We've only added three players for 2024: Williams, EH & Fantasia.

There's a lot of games available for these players: Durdin, Motlop, Owies, Fogarty and Cunningham to compete for spots
Anyone else going to step up? Binns? Carroll?

Dow and Ed were the sub in 10 of those games. Cuningham, Fogarty, Walsh, Kennedy, Hewett and Cerra all missed solid chunks of the year through injury. Don't think it's that much that needs to be made up. Even if we have an 80% healthy list, we should be able to cover pretty comfortably

 

[Arr0w]

I think Kemp is a long way off playing as a mid.

Right now, still needs to learn aspects to become a better 3rd tall defender, but don't think that comes naturally to him

I'd like to see him play as a 3rd tall forward next year

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

I think Kemp is a long way off playing as a mid.

Right now, still needs to learn aspects to become a better 3rd tall defender, but don't think that comes naturally to him

I'd like to see him play as a 3rd tall forward next year

Would be good. But where does that leave JSOS? Do you see him as a forward moving forward or somewhere else?