List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[BluesFever]

Think TDK is close to being a B+ ruckman, Weitering elite, and while I would agree we target an upgrade for either Young or Durdin, I wouldn't call them break glass


Agreed, it shows there are many components that don't rely on that setup


Didn't help them this year, so it's not a given


See above


See above


Valid, but with the examples above there are no guarantees


And happy to address each example

In part, I don't disagree, in regards to having better quality

Pitto is limited and prefer ruckmen that have greater output around the ground and resting forward

Here is the kicker, while everyone would like an upgrade in certain areas, no list is perfect, nor will it ever be the case given salary cap restraints and limited trading capital

As per my original post, TDK should become the B+ ruckman. We both agree Weitering is elite.

On no planet is Durdin even a consideration. Has he even played 10 AFL games in a season?

Young on last year's form is not a credible defender. If he can rediscover his 2022 form he is solid but I would still prefer something better.

All of the examples show in most premiership teams you have two very good KPDs. That was my point.

I thought this was the list management thread? Suggesting areas to improve would be part of that conversation wouldn't it? Nobody ever said the list is or should be perfect.

 

[Earls Smother]

and ended up being dropped and hasn't really been back. I hope he does but I am a long way from being convinced he is AFL level standard

and was overtaken as emergency in the finals by the bloke who has played 1 game in 48. He has dropped a long way from what he showed in '22.

 

[Arr0w]

As per my original post, TDK should become the B+ ruckman. We both agree Weitering is elite.

Tick then

On no planet is Durdin even a consideration. Has he even played 10 AFL games in a season?

I think he is a consideration if needed

Young on last year's form is not a credible defender. If he can rediscover his 2022 form he is solid but I would still prefer something better.

I will back him in to improve, although no sure he finds his 2022 form

All of the examples show in most premiership teams you have two very good KPDs. That was my point.

Some of the names you highlighted would be considered 3rd talls like Stewart, but setting that aside, the group of players you listed were still together in non flag years

So, it's clear not the main component to guarantee winning a flag

I thought this was the list management thread? Suggesting areas to improve would be part of that conversation wouldn't it? Nobody ever said the list is or should be perfect.

Absolutely, I think it's great to drill down, but there are limitations to build a better list and I think cohesion of the same group is severely underrated

 

[BluesFever]

Tick then


I think he is a consideration if needed


I will back him in to improve, although no sure he finds his 2022 form


Some of the names you highlighted would be considered 3rd talls like Stewart, but setting that aside, the group of players you listed were still together in non flag years

So, it's clear not the main component to guarantee winning a flag


Absolutely, I think it's great to drill down, but there are limitations to build a better list and I think cohesion of the same group is severely underrated

so basically we are in 95% in agreement.

Hug?

 

[haveago]

What is Mirkov lacking the most?
Skills, Game awareness or fitness?

He comes from a volleyball background, this shows with his skills and game awareness.
They are both very poor.

Not sure about his fitness, he looks to cover the ground OK but this not his issue.

Aside from tap work at bounces and throw in's a ruckman needs to be able to take marks, dish off ground balls,
have bullocking strength, get back in defence and help out, be able to push forward at times and cause headaches for the opposition and get involved in general play with a few possessions a quarter at least.


Mirkov lacks in all of the above I am afraid with the exception of some good tap work in the middle.

I know they all can't be Max Gawn but I don't think the Mirkov experiment has worked as we would have liked.

IMO he will not make it at senior level sadly.

 

[gbatman]

and ended up being dropped and hasn't really been back. I hope he does but I am a long way from being convinced he is AFL level standard

I think Young lacks that footy brain and awareness. Think in Weitering's role playing on the best forward and just sticking on his man he's good. But when he's the second or third tall down there and has to zone off and play lose he gets completely lost. One on one he's fine but the team defence stuff seems to go over his head.

 

[JuddgementDay]

He comes from a volleyball background, this shows with his skills and game awareness.
They are both very poor.

Not sure about his fitness, he looks to cover the ground OK but this not his issue.

Aside from tap work at bounces and throw in's a ruckman needs to be able to take marks, dish off ground balls,
have bullocking strength, get back in defence and help out, be able to push forward at times and cause headaches for the opposition and get involved in general play with a few possessions a quarter at least.


Mirkov lacks in all of the above I am afraid with the exception of some good tap work in the middle.

I know they all can't be Max Gawn but I don't think the Mirkov experiment has worked as we would have liked.

IMO he will not make it at senior level sadly.

You would think he can do ruckwork, then spoil/ spike every arial ball in defense - keep it simple for him.

If Earl can do it all those years ago as CHF, Mirkov can get the ball down/ half the contest - is that workable anymore?

 

[haveago]

You would think he can do ruckwork, then spoil/ spike every arial ball in defense - keep it simple for him.

If Earl can do it all those years ago as CHF, Mirkov can get the ball down/ half the contest - is that workable anymore?

Sorry JD, I don't think there is any comparison.

Big Earl could play.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Sorry JD, I don't think there is any comparison.

Big Earl could play.

I don't mean to compare player vs player, but Earl came to mind.

Anyway, the point was can Mirkov just concentrate on something simple like half the contest around the ground? It's just a means of getting him a game - if required.

 

[branedotorg]

I don't mean to compare player vs player, but Earl came to mind.

Anyway, the point was can Mirkov just concentrate on something simple like half the contest around the ground? It's just a means of getting him a game - if required.

Will Minson probably a better comparison, dogs at the time structured a game plan around him halving forward half contests, not taking marks

 

[Blue1980]

Martin's injury history has been frustrating. But he FINALLY seems to be getting his body right. He was instrumental in our surge up the ladder in the second half last year. Stats will never show how much Martins impact is for us. His forward pressure was elite (and illegal a few times), but loved the desperation and commitment he showed. Absolutely vital for us in 24 IMO

Also he was very different a player when he came 2nd half of the season to previous couple of seasons.

Just needs to keep his body right

 

[Blue1980]

It makes sense to wait.

We are in it up to our eyeballs and covered for most areas. We are most vulnerable in key defence and ruck if things go wrong - but we don't know what we most need until (if) it actually happens.

Jack gone and Pitto's ongoing knee, mean that TDK is vital. Same with Weiters down back. Young can potentially cover either role for a short time, but he seems to struggle with the mental demands of performing week after week. Durdin has played 1 game out of the 48 that he has been on our list. We can't rely on him.

Hopefully nothing long term happens to either of those key players, but we can't guess which one we might need to replace. Better to wait until MSD and also get another half season of data to assess.

Worth noting young played his best footy for us when Weiters was injured in 2022 mid year.

 

[The Bighouse]

Sorry JD, I don't think there is any comparison.

Big Earl could play.

Big Duke, Shield cricketer for WA. Handy sportspeople, Braddles the same for VIC.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

The Greek Parachutist?

He'll only be up there for a cuppla days.

 

[Earls Smother]

Worth noting young played his best footy for us when Weiters was injured in 2022 mid year.

He did and was very important in that period.

The trouble is, he has gone backwards since then. He was poor in some games last year when we were losing, and dropped. From round 14 onwards when we started winning, he didn't play another game for the year as a defender. His only games were when TDK and Pitto were both out and he played as a makeshift ruckman. He was also sub against West Coast when we rested half the team.

Voss clearly lost faith in him as a defender (he preferred Durdin as emergency in the finals), and it will take a fair bit to re-establish that faith in my view.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

He did and was very important in that period.

The trouble is, he has gone backwards since then. He was poor in some games last year when we were losing, and dropped. From round 14 onwards when we started winning, he didn't play another game for the year as a defender. His only games were when TDK and Pitto were both out and he played as a makeshift ruckman. He was also sub against West Coast when we rested half the team.

Voss clearly lost faith in him as a defender (he preferred Durdin as emergency in the finals), and it will take a fair bit to re-establish that faith in my view.

They have psychologists at the Club right?

 

[gbatman]

Don't worry about Young. He hasn't lost anything, he is just limited. He's a full back who can't play back pocket, CHB, or back flank. There have been plenty of good footballers through history like this. Can play a lock down role, will be able to step in, stick to the opposition's best big forward and do the Weitering role as adequately as he did in 2022. It's any other role he doesn't do well in. Playing off his man and having the instincts to zone off when we go into "team defence" mode is where he struggles. He doesn't have to do this if he's playing fullback on the oppositions best tall and he's just blanketing them.

Young in the side without Weitering is fine. Young in the side with Weitering is not so good. Guys like Marchbank are vastly better due to better leg speed and vastly better defensive awareness.

There is a chance though that we may see Young and Durdin in the first round as Brisbane are one of the rare sides, like us, who have two big tall forwards. I'm tipping we won't. It will be the fitter one out of Durdin and Young and that will be fine.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Don't worry about Young. He hasn't lost anything, he is just limited. He's a full back who can't play back pocket, CHB, or back flank. There have been plenty of good footballers through history like this. Can play a lock down role, will be able to step in, stick to the opposition's best big forward and do the Weitering role as adequately as he did in 2022. It's any other role he doesn't do well in. Playing off his man and having the instincts to zone off when we go into "team defence" mode is where he struggles. He doesn't have to do this if he's playing fullback on the oppositions best tall and he's just blanketing them.

Young in the side without Weitering is fine. Young in the side with Weitering is not so good. Guys like Marchbank are vastly better due to better leg speed and vastly better defensive awareness.

There is a chance though that we may see Young and Durdin in the first round as Brisbane are one of the rare sides, like us, who have two big tall forwards. I'm tipping we won't. It will be the fitter one out of Durdin and Young and that will be fine.

Think you're right - a back six with Young at FB supported by Marchy, Guv, Saad, Newy and Williams is still a very, very solid back six.

 

[gbatman]

Think you're right - a back six with Young at FB supported by Marchy, Guv, Saad, Newy and Williams is still a very, very solid back six.

It is. Young or Durdin. TBH I think with both fit it will be Durdin but who's to know. I'm confident in either playing the full back role for a few weeks. IMO Durdin is a fraction quicker and has a better footy IQ.

Our depth with our full backs is good.

What will be the test is that it's Brisbane (Daniher/Hipwood), Richmond (Lynch), North (Larkey), Fremantle, Adelaide (Walker). So whoever gets the job, we have some really strong tall forwards to line up on for them.

I'm not worried about Young or Durdin filling in this role. Neither will be as good as Weitering. But neither are hacks, both are AFL quality full backs. Just have to stick to a man and beat them and take the few opportunities to our mark them which both have done for us and for our VFL side.

Good midfield pressure and they will be fine.

Huge opportunity for whoever gets the run. They do well they push to get called up again or stay in the team. Opposition sides chasing a fullback will also be watching and likely to ask about them if they do well.

Personally I am keen to see Durdin get a run of games against good AFL forwards. See how good he really is. Been impressed with the few games he has played.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

p.s. our midfield will be so dominant early in the season, doubtful the FB will get near the ball!

 

[agro]

He'll only be up there for a cuppla days.

 

[thylacine60]

interesting young comes across as one of those players that don't seem to have any killer instinct, or genuine aggression at the player - think he landed a nice shirt-front on someone a little while back but he's no scary steven may

1

Steven May

Age

32

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

type (not many are) wonder if some of these bigger fellas get by in junior footy on size alone - the ball gets to them first, the end - look at krooz - a bit of a gentle giant (managed to stove in that bloke's sternum, might have been darren jolly

Darren Jolly

Age

42

Ht

200cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

4.2

3star

CL

2.3

4star

HO

21.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

3.2

1star

K

1.6

1star

HB

1.6

2star

HO

3.2

5star

) he wasn't brutal, yet whenever he ran off the ground, more often than not he'd be bleeding, he'd certainly be absolutely spent - also, his second and third efforts were off the charts - throw in mobility & goal kicking, he was such a brilliant player without being a monster - young could do worse than endeavour to emulate matty's commitment at the ball & opposition player..........

 

[The Bighouse]

interesting young comes across as one of those players that don't seem to have any killer instinct, or genuine aggression at the player - think he landed a nice shirt-front on someone a little while back but he's no scary steven may type (not many are) wonder if some of these bigger fellas get by in junior footy on size alone - the ball gets to them first, the end - look at krooz - a bit of a gentle giant (managed to stove in that bloke's sternum, might have been darren jolly) he wasn't brutal, yet whenever he ran off the ground, more often than not he'd be bleeding, he'd certainly be absolutely spent - also, his second and third efforts were off the charts - throw in mobility & goal kicking, he was such a brilliant player without being a monster - young could do worse than endeavour to emulate matty's commitment at the ball & opposition player..........

Just needs to have a chat with coach MK. Perhaps a quiet word to MK from the sidelines to get in the ear of LY as his Padawan.

 

[gbatman]

Young is tall, pretty athletic, has a good set of hands and is a good mark. There is a fair bit there. But the footy IQ isn't there like it is with the better defenders. You see him taking space in a zone and there is a lose player 10 metres away and he just lets him go and he gets the footy, kicks a goal because Young didn't know when to zone off and when to cover the man (lack of awareness and match sense). I've seen that a few times. You see him spoil balls he should be marking often. But when it's clear he marks the footy and does it well. Anyone can stick to a man and he does it well, he tends to be able to beat a lot of opponents. Those little moments, when to take front position, when to play off them, when to be tight, that's what he often gets wrong. Not every player has really good footy IQ. Guys like McGovern, Weitering and Marchbank do and they will always do more and play at a higher level. A guy like Young just has to come in and stick on a man and play a role and he's quite capable of doing that.

He's not best 22 but he is valuable.

What we should be doing with Young is trying to get him become more of a genuine utility. Work on his forward game and his ruck game. I can see us really needing a forward/ruck and a ruck at times, if he can be an options there then maybe he plays more games. I could see him doing ok forward. He's a good mark and a simple, lead up and mark role could be up his alley.

 

[Blue1980]

He did and was very important in that period.

The trouble is, he has gone backwards since then. He was poor in some games last year when we were losing, and dropped. From round 14 onwards when we started winning, he didn't play another game for the year as a defender. His only games were when TDK and Pitto were both out and he played as a makeshift ruckman. He was also sub against West Coast when we rested half the team.

Voss clearly lost faith in him as a defender (he preferred Durdin as emergency in the finals), and it will take a fair bit to re-establish that faith in my view.

I agree, but he has shown he can do it, and he was playing badly at a time where many many players were down.

Whether he is now out of defensive rotation and more a ruck forward remains to be seen.

He did seem to go way down the pecking order, but he will get chances again. Just needs to take them.