List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Accidental genius]

Well one would hope he could kick that far and accurately being a forward.

But team wise other than goals, what does he do well?

Kicks goals
Reliable set shot
Very smart player knows where to position himself
Sets up others to score
Gets involved in chains of ball movement
Tackles
he lowers his eyes when kicking to connect with another blue
Robust - not constantly injured like many on our team (huge benefit)


Yeah he doesn’t take cazalies and struggles to kick >40 m. But if he did that as well he’d be a $750k player

Now here is a question for ya…

What does durdin bring to the team?

 

[Soapy V]

Wouldn’t we be better off replacing a player that isn’t good and keep a player that is already good?

Why not both?

 

[Accidental genius]

Why not both?

imo we should/need to replace a fair few…

In the meantime owies is showing really good value…kicking goals and he does the team things as well.

I can’t see any reason why Durdin was given a contract.

A Hayward type to replace Martin.

There are plenty of players on our list that have questions marks over them before we get to owies.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

What does durdin bring to the team?

Currently nothing.

I’m surprised we re-signed him when we did. Although based off last year still kicks a goal a game, rates elite in tackles and will only be 23 at the start of 2025.

 

[katmanblue]

Why not both?

In theory, that's great but I wonder what the actual options we'd be looking at are?

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[Accidental genius]

Currently nothing.

I’m surprised we re-signed him when we did. Although based off last year still kicks a goal a game, rates elite in tackles and will only be 23 at the start of 2025.

we need to win a flag over next 3-4 years. We are very close.

I think better to target players who are currently not contributing to the team whether through lack of talent discipline or being injury prone.

I know he is still young but I can’t see durdin improving too much more. He is what he is.

Motlop showing really good signs…

Williams has been excellent…..but I am slightly worried about his injuries.

 

[Soapy V]

imo we should/need to replace a fair few…

In the meantime owies is showing really good value…kicking goals and he does the team things as well.

I can’t see any reason why Durdin was given a contract.

A Hayward type to replace Martin.

There are plenty of players on our list that have questions marks over them before we get to owies.

I see at least 8 changes

I like Owies. I’m not keen to trade him but question was if we got a second rounder for him would I do it? I probably would as we can cover him. Plenty will go before him but don’t hold his possible value

Of course it also depends what we would do/get for that pick?

We are in a great spot this year with a few picks, the campo kids and a salary cap that allows us to chase players

As for Durdin I agree. I don’t get it

 

[Coona Blues]

imo we should/need to replace a fair few…

In the meantime owies is showing really good value…kicking goals and he does the team things as well.

I can’t see any reason why Durdin was given a contract.

A Hayward type to replace Martin.

There are plenty of players on our list that have questions marks over them before we get to owies.

There are many factors at play around a possible Owies decision by club or player.

We have only five out of contract main list players.
AFL requirements compel clubs to replace/change a minimum of three main list players (rookies are not in that calculation).
The Camporeale boys are eligible and capable father-son draftees
Boyd must be elevated to the main list to remain with the club.
With Campos and Boyd taking up three spots, we must create more vacancies should we want to draft (or trade) for other positions, which by consensus we absolutely need to do.

Owies is reportedly fielding offers off the back of regularly hitting the scoreboard. Given the draft capital required for Lachie Schultz who is arguably a similar player, to move from Freo to the Magpies and his reported contract value, it is conceivable Owies is fielding offers north of $500k per season. Zac Williams aside, it is likely our other small forwards are on less than half of that and are capable of similar output. (That likely explains Corey Durdin who has had an injury hit two years after becoming a valuably fixture in the team in ‘22. He would be on a discounted salary. I for one back him to return to his best)

We likely would choose not to match an inflated offer to keep Owies. While he is heart and soul Carlton, Owies would be crazy in the second half of his career, not to take a payday double what is on offer here.

It is not about pointing fingers, denigrating one player, to elevate another, it is about practical considerations. A pick in the top half of the second round, which potentially is more than Matt is worth is feasible, Hell, Schultz ate up Collingwood’s first rounder. Small forwards are flavour of the month, we may well get an inflated return, which could then be utilised for one of the handful of spectacular kids in this draft who are far more rounded than Owies. We then get a better player for basic money for three or more years.

I am sure if Owies chose to stay on a similar contract to his current one, we would sign him up. That is not happening.

List Management 101.

 

[Accidental genius]

I see at least 8 changes

I like Owies. I’m not keen to trade him but question was if we got a second rounder for him would I do it. I probably would as we can cover him. Plenty will go before him but don’t hold his possible value

Of course it also depends what we would do/get for that pick?

We are in a great spot this year with a few picks, the campo kids and a salary cap that allows us to chase players

As for Durdin I agree. I don’t get it

Can you elaborate …who the 8 are?

 

[Soapy V]

Can you elaborate …who the 8 are?

Marchbank Cuningham Martin will go

I don't have any details but I expect all of the following will go

S.Durdin
Akuei
Mirkov

and I think there are question marks over

Fantasia
Moir
M.Carroll
Lemmey
Monahan

because of lack or form/development or contract status

I think Young is lucky he has a contract

Jack Carroll could easily go back to WA and Owies hasn't signed and is talked about as a trade option

 

[Accidental genius]

There are many factors at play around a possible Owies decision by club or player.

We have only five out of contract main list players.
AFL requirements compel clubs to replace/change a minimum of three main list players (rookies are not in that calculation).
The Camporeale boys are eligible and capable father-son draftees
Boyd must be elevated to the main list to remain with the club.
With Campos and Boyd taking up three spots, we must create more vacancies should we want to draft (or trade) for other positions, which by consensus we absolutely need to do.

Owies is reportedly fielding offers off the back of regularly hitting the scoreboard. Given the draft capital required for Lachie Schultz who is arguably a similar player, to move from Freo to the Magpies and his reported contract value, it is conceivable Owies is fielding offers north of $500k per season. Zac Williams aside, it is likely our other small forwards are on less than half of that and are capable of similar output. (That likely explains Corey Durdin who has had an injury hit two years after becoming a valuably fixture in the team in ‘22. He would be on a discounted salary. I for one back him to return to his best)

We likely would choose not to match an inflated offer to keep Owies. While he is heart and soul Carlton, Owies would be crazy in the second half of his career, not to take a payday double what is on offer here.

It is not about pointing fingers, denigrating one player, to elevate another, it is about practical considerations. A pick in the top half of the second round, which potentially is more than Matt is worth is feasible, Hell, Schultz ate up Collingwood’s first rounder. Small forwards are flavour of the month, we may well get an inflated return, which could then be utilised for one of the handful of spectacular kids in this draft who are far more rounded than Owies. We then get a better player for basic money for three or more years.

I am sure if Owies chose to stay on a similar contract to his current one, we would sign him up. That is not happening.

List Management 101.

I agree with all that but the concern I have is we don’t have many goal kickers apart from h and Charlie. And I don’t think any draftee is going to help with that in the short term.

Williams has been great in f50 but he is another that seems to get injured a lot.

Hopefully Motlop improves with another preseason.

 

[Soapy V]

In theory, that's great but I wonder what the actual options we'd be looking at are?

I think we are looking at EVERYTHING and are open to anything

Listening to Cook, our Salary Cap is in a great spot, we have very good top end players and a strong draft coming up

At the moment we have picks 15, 35, 62, 67 & 72

With being able to trade 2 years ahead etc I think we will go hard for a few more picks plus we need picks for Campo twins who could go anywhere from Pick 20 onwards so we will need the points. I assume that will be via splitting picks or trading future picks?

Club is quiet on trades but I'm told we are just "watching" everything to be ready to pounce on any opportunity.

 

[Soapy V]

We likely would choose not to match an inflated offer to keep Owies. While he is heart and soul Carlton, Owies would be crazy in the second half of his career, not to take a payday double what is on offer here.

This. He has done it the hard way and been on rookie money for much of his career. I reckon he has got the absolute most of his ability. Good luck to him

 

[Soapy V]

I agree with all that but the concern I have is we don’t have many goal kickers apart from h and Charlie. And I don’t think any draftee is going to help with that in the short term.

Williams has been great in f50 but he is another that seems to get injured a lot.

Hopefully Motlop improves with another preseason.

It's a gamble. We have "possible" options

Motlop has talent but as yet hasn't delivered
Fogarty is a worker but doesn't hit the scoreboard much (is an important part of mix)
Williams is class but older and often injured
Durdin has ability but injured and yet to produce consistently
Fantasia IMO is done
Moir? Who knows
Elijah I see more of a mid. Doc will be back and is similar.

I'd love a Charlie Cameron type (wouldn't he be awesome next to Charlie/Harry) but they are rare and hard to get

 

[Arr0w]

There are many factors at play around a possible Owies decision by club or player.

We have only five out of contract main list players.
AFL requirements compel clubs to replace/change a minimum of three main list players (rookies are not in that calculation).
The Camporeale boys are eligible and capable father-son draftees
Boyd must be elevated to the main list to remain with the club.
With Campos and Boyd taking up three spots, we must create more vacancies should we want to draft (or trade) for other positions, which by consensus we absolutely need to do.

Owies is reportedly fielding offers off the back of regularly hitting the scoreboard. Given the draft capital required for Lachie Schultz who is arguably a similar player, to move from Freo to the Magpies and his reported contract value, it is conceivable Owies is fielding offers north of $500k per season. Zac Williams aside, it is likely our other small forwards are on less than half of that and are capable of similar output. (That likely explains Corey Durdin who has had an injury hit two years after becoming a valuably fixture in the team in ‘22. He would be on a discounted salary. I for one back him to return to his best)

We likely would choose not to match an inflated offer to keep Owies. While he is heart and soul Carlton, Owies would be crazy in the second half of his career, not to take a payday double what is on offer here.

It is not about pointing fingers, denigrating one player, to elevate another, it is about practical considerations. A pick in the top half of the second round, which potentially is more than Matt is worth is feasible, Hell, Schultz ate up Collingwood’s first rounder. Small forwards are flavour of the month, we may well get an inflated return, which could then be utilised for one of the handful of spectacular kids in this draft who are far more rounded than Owies. We then get a better player for basic money for three or more years.

I am sure if Owies chose to stay on a similar contract to his current one, we would sign him up. That is not happening.

List Management 101.

Plenty of player denigrating going around recently

 

[Arr0w]

Moir and Monahan will stay on the list next year

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Conor Nash, Hawthorn.
I'd be surprised if you haven't.

Ah, him…yes I know who it is.

Why would we have been looking at him? Not in the same postcode of the type we need


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[Lukey Skywalker]

Moir and Monahan will stay on the list next year

would think Lemmey to as he only 2nd year & shown abit last few weeks. Think he & O'Keefe can develop nicely over next couple of years, Lemay just need to work on his intensity & strength work i think

 

[gbatman]

We lack genuine forwards. Don't underestimate the ability to make good position, make leads at the right time to the right spots. Being able to play forward is a very instinctive thing that requires you to have those natural instincts and ability to read the play.

What we have is a bunch of failed midfielders and athletes who have been taught to play forward and they don't have this, hence they have a lot of games where they struggle to get over 10 touches and rarely kick goals.

Curnow and McKay are natural forwards. Martin, E Hollands, Owies, Silvagni, Williams and Motlop all have it to varying degrees. Fantasia, Cottrell, Fogarty, Cincotta are what I mentioned above.

We trade Owies, I see E Hollands spending a lot more time in the middle, Silvagni coming back slowly from a knee reco, we lose Martin as well. Then there is an injury prone Williams and Motlop...

The cupboard in our forward end of the ground becomes extremely bare.

Our forward line is a big part of our poor connection from defence and poor ball movement at times, simply because when we go forwards our players are not in the right position or don't have the ability to win the ball under strong defensive pressure. That changes when we add quality natural forwards to our forward line over the makeshift ones we have.

1. You can't just put good/average footballers in the forward line to plug holes. If they don't have forward IQ it doesn't work

2. You can't use decoy forwards in modern footy, teams pick up on it instantly and use their opponents as intercept defenders and they clog up the forward line.

3. Defensive forwards are fine but they still need to be able to run both ways and become a threat and you don't want more than one of them. Often we have three. Then only half your forward line is doing the scoring and the opposition are going to kill you defensively.

I think we know this. We had a big play at Heyward and before that is was Papley and drafted Moir. I'm not sure what we have up our sleeve. Collingwood getting Hill. Geelong getting Cameron, Stengle, Dahlhaus, Rohan to fix their forward line. This needs to be us the next few seasons.

I just feel though, we could be left with an extremely bare forward line next season.

This along with our midfield speed/pressure needs and need for a CHB. We have some work to do.

 

[DangerousD]

There not much left via FA.

I really think we will mostly go to the draft along with 2-3 mature types via cheap trades, DFAs or even SSPs. We haven’t really brought in many kids in last few years and have had ONE debutant this year and ONE last year

Campo twins and 3-4 other kids as talk is it’s a good draft to have multiple picks

I’d chase Barras but seems we aren’t. Says to me we don’t want to trade away picks

We get Jack & Doc back, hopefully a few of O’Keefe Lemmey Wilson Binns Lord stepping up and we are in a good spot

There is plenty left via free agents, with two key defenders and one small/medium forward, who are top quality and would suit our list perfectly.

Im surprised we haven’t been linked with any of them.

 

[Soapy V]

We lack genuine forwards. Don't underestimate the ability to make good position, make leads at the right time to the right spots. Being able to play forward is a very instinctive thing that requires you to have those natural instincts and ability to read the play.

What we have is a bunch of failed midfielders and athletes who have been taught to play forward and they don't have this, hence they have a lot of games where they struggle to get over 10 touches and rarely kick goals.

Curnow and McKay are natural forwards. Martin, E Hollands, Owies, Silvagni, Williams and Motlop all have it to varying degrees. Fantasia, Cottrell, Fogarty, Cincotta are what I mentioned above.

We trade Owies, I see E Hollands spending a lot more time in the middle, Silvagni coming back slowly from a knee reco, we lose Martin as well. Then there is an injury prone Williams and Motlop...

The cupboard in our forward end of the ground becomes extremely bare.

Our forward line is a big part of our poor connection from defence and poor ball movement at times, simply because when we go forwards our players are not in the right position or don't have the ability to win the ball under strong defensive pressure. That changes when we add quality natural forwards to our forward line over the makeshift ones we have.

1. You can't just put good/average footballers in the forward line to plug holes. If they don't have forward IQ it doesn't work

2. You can't use decoy forwards in modern footy, teams pick up on it instantly and use their opponents as intercept defenders and they clog up the forward line.

3. Defensive forwards are fine but they still need to be able to run both ways and become a threat and you don't want more than one of them. Often we have three. Then only half your forward line is doing the scoring and the opposition are going to kill you defensively.

I think we know this. We had a big play at Heyward and before that is was Papley and drafted Moir. I'm not sure what we have up our sleeve. Collingwood getting Hill. Geelong getting Cameron, Stengle, Dahlhaus, Rohan to fix their forward line. This needs to be us the next few seasons.

I just feel though, we could be left with an extremely bare forward line next season.

This along with our midfield speed/pressure needs and need for a CHB. We have some work to do.

100% agree.

We seem to have a number of good/handy options but NO game breakers. Motlop is a maybe. I have no idea about Moir.

A Hill, Stengle, Cameron type would be a game changer. Fogarty Williams would then be great in support

IMO this highlights issue in our list and why I believe this off season is massive for us. We have a number of players that "maybe" able to step up and in so many positions. No one really knows how good Motlop Durdin Ollie Cowan Lemmey O'Keefe Kemp Carroll Monahan Moir Wilson will be. Judgements will need to be made when buidling our list

Off season will be very interesting

 

[Soapy V]

There is plenty left via free agents, with two key defenders and one small/medium forward, who are top quality and would suit our list perfectly.

Im surprised we haven’t been linked with any of them.

Can you name them for me?

 

[DangerousD]

Can you name them for me?

Key defenders: Tom McDonald (Good back up Fwd)
Kolodjashni

Small/medium Fwd: Ben Keays

 

[Soapy V]

Key defenders: Tom McDonald (Good back up Fwd)
Kolodjashni

Small/medium Fwd: Ben Keays

Fair. McDonald may be okay? Kolo will stay at Cats

Keays is a good player but IMO not the type we need or much better than what we have

 

[bradfisher14]

Here’s a question for ya.

What is Owies actually good at?

Kicking goals.

It's kind of important.