List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Les Grossman playaaaa]

You are all wasting your time with this back and forth discussion about rookie categories.

Can we please address the elephant in the room by finally getting to the bottom of whether or not Tom Scully is the illegitimate son of a former Carlton player or not??

 

[manang magoos]

The garbage

 

[lily of laguna]

Maybe, I could possibly overlook it if he wasn't a nervous wreck in general every time I see him.



This is from after the most recent trade period; 4 years into the job. He's gripping the table for dear life, constantly gulping and how's that nervous cough/laugh when there is silence? These aren't the traits of a confident man. I'd hate to see what how he bahaves in the throws of a tense trade situation.... I doubt it's beneficial for us.

I would love to play poker against him for piles of money.

I reckon going off this, he would bleed you dry of every brass razoo!

He definitely has you covered in the bluff stakes if you reckon he is nervous and lacking composure.

His little laugh was at an off the cuff joke not caught by the mics rather than a nervous laugh waiting for another question.

The thing that gets me is when outsiders make assumptions on what a trade result should have been without knowing any of the back and forth or how individual trades work in conjunction with the broader trade period.

Can you give me any specific instance where Austin has failed in a trade due to being outplayed?

Bearing in mind the need to facilitate future trades with as many list managers as possible.




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[Kings of Lygon]

Not traits, but in regards to outcomes, you have just described every single list manager, negotiator and recruiter

No one, comes close to having an error free career

Just look at a clubs drafting success rate, lucky to hit 2 in every 3 picks, and all of them have had busts

2 in every 3 picks would be an exemplary record, depending on how you judge a picks success. We can only hope for that kind of result.

I don't expect Austin to be perfect, but I would like him to do better than he currently has in his role and have expressed my views on him as a person/his personality as well as our "open door" policy with letting the media know our intentions and thoughts. That falls on him.

He did the deal for Williams, which was massive overs then and now looks ridiculous. Let's hope Zac can turn it around, becuase he is being paid stupid money for almost no return thus far. That's a huge X so far.

He overpaid for Saad (uncontracted) when he should have split/changed pick 8 into something else to satisfy Essendon and let us keep something. That's what a good operator would have done IMO, but because it was "what we had", he ended up handing it over. I don't doubt Saad's role or impact for us; but no out of contract, half-back flank has ever fetched such a price. Why were we the one's who paid it?

I like Hewett, but he wasn't able to back up his really good first season for us. Jury is out on him whether or not he's good depth, or can be an impactful, senior player for us on the regular.

He did a good and fair job on the Cerra deal; it was a win to not only get him to commit but to get the deal done.

SPS into Young seems like a wash, but probably provides better depth for us if I was inclined to be optimisic. He can still turn it around.

Acres fell into our lap because of Fremantle's dumb treatment of him... but he still did the job. That's a tick.

The Will Setterfield trade was a nothing.

He erred in the Fisher negotiations IMO; giving up a contracted player cheaply because we played our hand in the media. Likewise Dow, but we had less of a hand to play I'll admit.

I am confused by the Fantasia acquisition, as I've pointed out in this thread. 2 years?? Jeez.

I liked the deal for Hollands, but we all now know why we got him for next to nothing.

I feel that's pretty comprehensive and fair. Did I miss anything?

As far as his drafting goes, I'm happy to hold fire on most of them for now, given the lack of time.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

I reckon going off this, he would bleed you dry of every brass razoo!

He definitely has you covered in the bluff stakes if you reckon he is nervous and lacking composure.

His little laugh was at an off the cuff joke not caught by the mics rather than a nervous laugh waiting for another question.

The thing that gets me is when outsiders make assumptions on what a trade result should have been without knowing any of the back and forth or how individual trades work in conjunction with the broader trade period.

Can you give me any specific instance where Austin has failed in a trade due to being outplayed?

Bearing in mind the need to facilitate future trades with as many list managers as possible.

What can I say?

I'd be happy to play you for piles as well...

 

[Benaly28]

2 in every 3 picks would be an exemplary record, depending on how you judge a picks success. We can only hope for that kind of result.

I don't expect Austin to be perfect, but I would like him to do better than he currently has in his role and have expressed my views on him as a person/his personality as well as our "open door" policy with letting the media know our intentions and thoughts. That falls on him.

He did the deal for Williams, which was massive overs then and now looks ridiculous. Let's hope Zac can turn it around, becuase he is being paid stupid money for almost no return thus far. That's a huge X so far.

He overpaid for Saad (uncontracted) when he should have split/changed pick 8 into something else to satisfy Essendon and let us keep something. That's what a good operator would have done IMO, but because it was "what we had", he ended up handing it over. I don't doubt Saad's role or impact for us; but no out of contract, half-back flank has ever fetched such a price. Why were we the one's who paid it?

I like Hewett, but he wasn't able to back up his really good first season for us. Jury is out on him whether or not he's good depth, or can be an impactful, senior player for us on the regular.

He did a good and fair job on the Cerra deal; it was a win to not only get him to commit but to get the deal done.

SPS into Young seems like a wash, but probably provides better depth for us if I was inclined to be optimisic. He can still turn it around.

Acres fell into our lap because of Fremantle's dumb treatment of him... but he still did the job. That's a tick.

The Will Setterfield trade was a nothing.

He erred in the Fisher negotiations IMO; giving up a contracted player cheaply because we played our hand in the media. Likewise Dow, but we had less of a hand to play I'll admit.

I am confused by the Fantasia acquisition, as I've pointed out in this thread. 2 years?? Jeez.

I liked the deal for Hollands, but we all now know why we got him for next to nothing.

I feel that's pretty comprehensive and fair. Did I miss anything?

As far as his drafting goes, I'm happy to hold fire on most of them for now, given the lack of time.

Respect your opinion however we’ve now developed the best list we’ve had in ages and just played in a prelim.

Yes Austin has only just started but I think is miles ahead of Sos as a list manager in finding players to fill needs and play a finals brand of footy.

No more ‘slight’ type players like Sps/LOB/Dow/Setterfield.

Think he’s doing a great job atm.


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[Bletch]

View attachment 1841373

taken from the official players/agent handbook given to players entering the rookie and AFL NAB drafts for 2023 3 Cat B! Do not mind having discussion but sometimes we do get it wrong (mentioned 45 in my video due to being a rush and not including the rookie A and B break down which is 44 tops with all 3 combined) Hope this clears it up, But as it stands as confirmed on the Carlton webpage (usually your first port of call as the AFLPA request any Contract changes to be listed in announcements, O'Brien, Kennedy and Co have all been listed on the webpage as Signed a xyz Contract)


So after chatting with the dept of list management it is at 4 list spots currently the break down is and has been confirmed to me as the following


View attachment 1841384


apologises again for the typo error on the video and script, these things happen when you spend your life actually watching live footage of draftees and not just recycling the content that cal twomey does and then making a video! any questions please fire away

Regards

Pom

Have you got a link for that Pommy? Not doubting you at all, just that it is in direct contradiction to the CBA signed by the AFLPA on Sep 20, and the AFL rules published in Feb 23. Both of these documents list a limit of 2 Cat B Rookies. Ultimately, think we're all just trying to understand what the actual rules of the competition are.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

2 in every 3 picks would be an exemplary record, depending on how you judge a picks success. We can only hope for that kind of result.

I don't expect Austin to be perfect, but I would like him to do better than he currently has in his role and have expressed my views on him as a person/his personality as well as our "open door" policy with letting the media know our intentions and thoughts. That falls on him.

He did the deal for Williams, which was massive overs then and now looks ridiculous. Let's hope Zac can turn it around, becuase he is being paid stupid money for almost no return thus far. That's a huge X so far.

He overpaid for Saad (uncontracted) when he should have split/changed pick 8 into something else to satisfy Essendon and let us keep something. That's what a good operator would have done IMO, but because it was "what we had", he ended up handing it over. I don't doubt Saad's role or impact for us; but no out of contract, half-back flank has ever fetched such a price. Why were we the one's who paid it?

I like Hewett, but he wasn't able to back up his really good first season for us. Jury is out on him whether or not he's good depth, or can be an impactful, senior player for us on the regular.

He did a good and fair job on the Cerra deal; it was a win to not only get him to commit but to get the deal done.

SPS into Young seems like a wash, but probably provides better depth for us if I was inclined to be optimisic. He can still turn it around.

Acres fell into our lap because of Fremantle's dumb treatment of him... but he still did the job. That's a tick.

The Will Setterfield trade was a nothing.

He erred in the Fisher negotiations IMO; giving up a contracted player cheaply because we played our hand in the media. Likewise Dow, but we had less of a hand to play I'll admit.

I am confused by the Fantasia acquisition, as I've pointed out in this thread. 2 years?? Jeez.

I liked the deal for Hollands, but we all now know why we got him for next to nothing.

I feel that's pretty comprehensive and fair. Did I miss anything?

As far as his drafting goes, I'm happy to hold fire on most of them for now, given the lack of time.

Wow, you seem to have a really good handle on all of the trades and draft scenarios.

Rather than just throwing stones from the cheap seats, I'm sure all of us would love to hear as our resident list management expert what you would have done differently.

I'm excited to hear which players you would have brought in, and all the trade scenarios to get the deals done.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Austin is the best list manager we’ve had since brown paper bags…

Guess some would be unhappy at whoever we pick up…

 

[NYCFC]

Maybe, I could possibly overlook it if he wasn't a nervous wreck in general every time I see him.



This is from after the most recent trade period; 4 years into the job. He's gripping the table for dear life, constantly gulping and how's that nervous cough/laugh when there is silence? These aren't the traits of a confident man. I'd hate to see what how he bahaves in the throws of a tense trade situation.... I doubt it's beneficial for us.

I would love to play poker against him for piles of money.

Have a look at Kinnear Beatson here.
Constantly shifting his eyes away from the camera, saying 'umm' and 'ahh' repeatedly.
Clearly lacks confidence and couldn't bluff me to save his life.
Terrible list manager.

 

[ETET]

2 in every 3 picks would be an exemplary record, depending on how you judge a picks success. We can only hope for that kind of result.

I don't expect Austin to be perfect, but I would like him to do better than he currently has in his role and have expressed my views on him as a person/his personality as well as our "open door" policy with letting the media know our intentions and thoughts. That falls on him.

He did the deal for Williams, which was massive overs then and now looks ridiculous. Let's hope Zac can turn it around, becuase he is being paid stupid money for almost no return thus far. That's a huge X so far.

He overpaid for Saad (uncontracted) when he should have split/changed pick 8 into something else to satisfy Essendon and let us keep something. That's what a good operator would have done IMO, but because it was "what we had", he ended up handing it over. I don't doubt Saad's role or impact for us; but no out of contract, half-back flank has ever fetched such a price. Why were we the one's who paid it?

I like Hewett, but he wasn't able to back up his really good first season for us. Jury is out on him whether or not he's good depth, or can be an impactful, senior player for us on the regular.

He did a good and fair job on the Cerra deal; it was a win to not only get him to commit but to get the deal done.

SPS into Young seems like a wash, but probably provides better depth for us if I was inclined to be optimisic. He can still turn it around.

Acres fell into our lap because of Fremantle's dumb treatment of him... but he still did the job. That's a tick.

The Will Setterfield trade was a nothing.

He erred in the Fisher negotiations IMO; giving up a contracted player cheaply because we played our hand in the media. Likewise Dow, but we had less of a hand to play I'll admit.

I am confused by the Fantasia acquisition, as I've pointed out in this thread. 2 years?? Jeez.

I liked the deal for Hollands, but we all now know why we got him for next to nothing.

I feel that's pretty comprehensive and fair. Did I miss anything?

As far as his drafting goes, I'm happy to hold fire on most of them for now, given the lack of time.

I am not sure on the Saad narrative. Even SOS said on radio at the time. If we had split the pick, Dodoro would just require both and that is what we would have to pay. He went onto say the reason is that Saad was worth around that price anyhow and once you commit to a player it's up to you to get it done.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Wow, you seem to have a really good handle on all of the trades and draft scenarios.

Rather than just throwing stones from the cheap seats, I'm sure all of us would love to hear as our resident list management expert what you would have done differently.

I'm excited to hear which players you would have brought in, and all the trade scenarios to get the deals done.

It's my opinion BH and one that I think is appropriately fleshed out, is worth posting and was elbaorated upon without waffling too much (as best as I can, we all have our weak points).

If we aren't allowed opinions, without the scorn of people like you without any real rebuttal or genuine talking points to the contrary, then what are we doing here?

Never claimed to be an expert. But I'm a huge and passionate Carlton fan and want the best for the club. I don't always get it right, but that's fine with me. Is that ok with you or should I just shut up and follow the herd? I'd probably get more likes on here if I did, but I really don't care about that either...

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

Have you got a link for that Pommy? Not doubting you at all, just that it is in direct contradiction to the CBA signed by the AFLPA on Sep 20, and the AFL rules published in Feb 23. Both of these documents list a limit of 2 Cat B Rookies. Ultimately, think we're all just trying to understand what the actual rules of the competition are.

Surely I've build the Pom credits by now lol

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

But the 3 Cat B rule has existed since the first list amendment in covid times

Pies
Lions
GWS
Dogs
Gold coast
Freo and list goes on have all exercised

Have to fall in the category and not max our rookie A but effectively they pre-empted (which has happened this far) an shallower draft pool due to the most key area of a footballer on juniors is 15 and 16 where they have their first jump (largest age for cutting in EPL, golf etc) and the effects of covid and no comps.

Also worth noting the age article I put up earlier alludes to the extended rules from Ireland with it being an AFL official pathway for 3 clubs

 

[bluesDeluxe]

But the 3 Cat B rule has existed since the first list amendment in covid times

Pies
Lions
GWS
Dogs
Gold coast
Freo and list goes on have all exercised

Have to fall in the category and not max our rookie A but effectively they pre-empted (which has happened this far) an shallower draft pool due to the most key area of a footballer on juniors is 15 and 16 where they have their first jump (largest age for cutting in EPL, golf etc) and the effects of covid and no comps.

Also worth noting the age article I put up earlier alludes to the extended rules from Ireland with it being an AFL official pathway for 3 clubs

Appreciate the time, effort and info

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

Appreciate the time, effort and info

Thank you mate. It's something I fell victim of when I first fell on love with the game just taking the media discourse. But same with the NGA etc the rules they push aren't the actual rules. Seen media outlets suggest you can pick and mix your picks etc to match bids but it falls numerical order and you recover picks in change effectively. Little things like that go a long way to stopping it being such a blur over understanding. Probably the most secretive sport I've ever witnessed

 

[Gethelred]

It's my opinion BH and one that I think is appropriately fleshed out, is worth posting and was elbaorated upon without waffling too much (as best as I can, we all have our weak points).

If we aren't allowed opinions, without the scorn of people like you without any real rebuttal or genuine talking points to the contrary, then what are we doing here?

Never claimed to be an expert. But I'm a huge and passionate Carlton fan and want the best for the club. I don't always get it right, but that's fine with me. Is that ok with you or should I just shut up and follow the herd? I'd probably get more likes on here if I did, but I really don't care about that either...

It's interesting. You've taken a potshot at Austin for his trading and drafting (and body language) providing not really all that much other than criticism without alternative. You then - upon receiving criticism for doing so - tell people they have to what, rebut your criticism in order to avoid preventing you from expressing your opinion?

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism or the consequences of that speech, and the mere existence of an opinion does not make that opinion worth much more than the time taken to type it. You don't gain additional points for the mere fact of going against the grain; do so and do it well, that's another thing entirely.

The above serves as an evasion rather than an answer, and in order to provide a rebuttal you needed to provide something to rebut.

 

[Blue train 28]

Austin has done a great job. Been in the job for 3-4 years now ? And has bought in good quality players from trade, free agency and draft!! . Is getting rid of all the dead wood and our list is finally looking great!

 

[athensblue]

Interesting choice is Orazio

 

[BlackGoanna]

2 in every 3 picks would be an exemplary record, depending on how you judge a picks success. We can only hope for that kind of result.

I don't expect Austin to be perfect, but I would like him to do better than he currently has in his role and have expressed my views on him as a person/his personality as well as our "open door" policy with letting the media know our intentions and thoughts. That falls on him.

He did the deal for Williams, which was massive overs then and now looks ridiculous. Let's hope Zac can turn it around, becuase he is being paid stupid money for almost no return thus far. That's a huge X so far.

He overpaid for Saad (uncontracted) when he should have split/changed pick 8 into something else to satisfy Essendon and let us keep something. That's what a good operator would have done IMO, but because it was "what we had", he ended up handing it over. I don't doubt Saad's role or impact for us; but no out of contract, half-back flank has ever fetched such a price. Why were we the one's who paid it?

I like Hewett, but he wasn't able to back up his really good first season for us. Jury is out on him whether or not he's good depth, or can be an impactful, senior player for us on the regular.

He did a good and fair job on the Cerra deal; it was a win to not only get him to commit but to get the deal done.

SPS into Young seems like a wash, but probably provides better depth for us if I was inclined to be optimisic. He can still turn it around.

Acres fell into our lap because of Fremantle's dumb treatment of him... but he still did the job. That's a tick.

The Will Setterfield trade was a nothing.

He erred in the Fisher negotiations IMO; giving up a contracted player cheaply because we played our hand in the media. Likewise Dow, but we had less of a hand to play I'll admit.

I am confused by the Fantasia acquisition, as I've pointed out in this thread. 2 years?? Jeez.

I liked the deal for Hollands, but we all now know why we got him for next to nothing.

I feel that's pretty comprehensive and fair. Did I miss anything?

As far as his drafting goes, I'm happy to hold fire on most of them for now, given the lack of time.

Really appears you are trying to shine the poo here. Now you are starting to convince yourself that he is perhaps not as bad as your original position.


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[Arr0w]

Appreciate the measured response

2 in every 3 picks would be an exemplary record, depending on how you judge a picks success. We can only hope for that kind of result.

All clubs could only hope to achieve that strike rate or better. In fact, any talent indentificator achieving a better outcome, I would ensure they are the highest paid staff member as I believe recruiting is the number one aspect of success

I don't expect Austin to be perfect, but I would like him to do better than he currently has in his role and have expressed my views on him as a person/his personality as well as our "open door" policy with letting the media know our intentions and thoughts. That falls on him.

An open door policy isn't an indication of the level of strength and or success.

He did the deal for Williams, which was massive overs then and now looks ridiculous. Let's hope Zac can turn it around, becuase he is being paid stupid money for almost no return thus far. That's a huge X so far.

Paying overs or top tier payments for a talented FA isn't unusual, it's actually standard practice for a number of reasons, one of which is to stop the original club matching the bid

Dodoro just paid what for an injury prone CHB?

Williams has time to improve and repay the faith we showed in targeting him

He overpaid for Saad (uncontracted) when he should have split/changed pick 8 into something else to satisfy Essendon and let us keep something. That's what a good operator would have done IMO, but because it was "what we had", he ended up handing it over. I don't doubt Saad's role or impact for us; but no out of contract, half-back flank has ever fetched such a price. Why were we the one's who paid it?

I too was a little concerned with what we gave up at the time, but again there were factors which made it difficult to acquire Saad if trading back our early 1st for two late 1sts

Dodoro, other clubs, have an understanding of other clubs salary cap. No way we could have walked him to the PSD like a Jack Martin

What would you say the currency was for a potential/actual AA like Sinclair, Laird, Whitfield

Best way i judge these trade is what it adds to the whole, what it allows us to target thereafter and ultimately did Saad play a part in the ultimate success, a flag

I like Hewett, but he wasn't able to back up his really good first season for us. Jury is out on him whether or not he's good depth, or can be an impactful, senior player for us on the regular.

Hewett took industry unders, reportedly less than 500K a year, fortunately or good management by us, Swan were struggling with cap space considering their young stars wanted to be retained

He did a good and fair job on the Cerra deal; it was a win to not only get him to commit but to get the deal done.

I believe the trade value was right in the range. I don't see a downside at all

SPS into Young seems like a wash, but probably provides better depth for us if I was inclined to be optimisic. He can still turn it around.

One player no longer in the game, the other still has attributes to play a role in our success. Just needs to find a better level of aggression

Acres fell into our lap because of Fremantle's dumb treatment of him... but he still did the job. That's a tick.

While the Dockers undervalued Acres, and probably so too did other clubs, players don't fall into your lap. You pitch a vision, role and a package. Great list management by Austin and the club

The Will Setterfield trade was a nothing.

Wasn't worth much more

He erred in the Fisher negotiations IMO; giving up a contracted player cheaply because we played our hand in the media.

Fisher's value was always a mid to late 2nd rounder.

Austin was offered a pick in the 40s and quickly made it clear it wouldn't get the deal done.

The eventual trade was perfect for what we wanted for our draft position

Likewise Dow, but we had less of a hand to play I'll admit.

Dow had little value

I am confused by the Fantasia acquisition, as I've pointed out in this thread. 2 years?? Jeez.

I'm surprised, but it is the type we need. Rumoured to be on base salary, 2 years on a wage that a couple of our departing players were being paid for 1 year

I liked the deal for Hollands, but we all now know why we got him for next to nothing.

If he puts his head down and performs, it's a steal, if he doesn't we lose what we obtained for Dow. Pretty much a free hit

I feel that's pretty comprehensive and fair. Did I miss anything?

Don't think you missed much, although need to consider other re-signings such as Cottrell that has grown as a player.

Boyd who I believe is best 22, Cincotta as solid depth


For me, it seems you have more of an issue with Austin's demeanour rather than him building a list to give us the best chance at success

On the other side of the scale you have Dodoro, a hard, difficult negotiatior that has struggled to build a balanced list over 2 decades

As far as his drafting goes, I'm happy to hold fire on most of them for now, given the lack of time.

Think that's a reasonable approach

 

[TrueQldBlue]

From about 3mins onwards

Ok I went back and watched....makes some good observations

On CPH2135 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[myblueroan]

Maybe, I could possibly overlook it if he wasn't a nervous wreck in general every time I see him.



This is from after the most recent trade period; 4 years into the job. He's gripping the table for dear life, constantly gulping and how's that nervous cough/laugh when there is silence? These aren't the traits of a confident man. I'd hate to see what how he bahaves in the throws of a tense trade situation.... I doubt it's beneficial for us.

I would love to play poker against him for piles of money.

He seems fine! He is articulate amd confident. Maybe not his natural comfort zone...looks like he'd rather be off doing stuff than sit and answer questions, but I find your reading unusual...

 

[HarryFlashman]

Watching his highlights, he gets to the right places often enough to impact the scoreboard and he also has great speed in getting boot to ball which is a terrific trait for a forward. Is it an X factor? I don’t know, but not a lot of players do it regularly.

He also instinctively knows where the goals are like Charlie and Mots, so when he puts the ball to boot in the blink of an eye it is on target!

As others have said, his footy talent is there it’s all about his durability!


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He definitely has some talent, gets to good spots (something we have been lacking), is quick, sees the play & the position around him & can kick it 50 plus.
I see this as an incremental upgrade which has come cheap.
Voss has spent plenty of time with him & obviously thinks he has value.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that he’s going to come in and be a star but it is a low risk/medium reward list management play. That’s a pretty smart way to build/improve the team.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Surely I've build the Pom credits by now lol

Cheers Pom, appreciate your time and effort