List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[WalshistheGOAT]

If the club is keen on Lukosious like someone said earlier than overlooking McMahon makes some more sense.

Personally I don't see his skill set translating well to AFL level, contested marking, one on one type player who's a complete string bean... Think he'd get out bodied too much at AFL level.

Luko at least has the elite kicking ability and aerobic base to play higher up the ground.

 

[Chamber JJJ]

People wanting to trade tdk is madness. Could be the best ruckman in 12 months time.

TDK is the last player Carlton would trade since he been out we have turn rubbish and he hasn't peaked.

 

[Chamber JJJ]

ask list management that decision making

Austin need to go we had 1 pick on list not used could have taken McMahon as a forward or Ramshaw as he has that speed he didn't need to have a ton of possession just needed his run and tackle. Cooper Lord can get the ball but again is same like Binns and most of the AFL team one pace . I here the Camporeale Boys find the ball a lot but are similar with pace and not great kicks.

 

[Lace_Out]

Well if Charlies out for the year we may as well just call curtains on the season and play the kids

Might as well.

It will be a blessing to miss finals, hard calls need to be forced at seasons end.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Jimmae]

Well I think he would be good lead up player. At least he would take a decent back man and open up the forward 50.

Tbh I’d back him in. May not be perfect but has plenty of positives to make a go of it imo

You could just as easily be describing TDK, and look how that turns out in our forward line most of the time.

 

[TrueQldBlue]

The Saad stuff seems a strange hill to die on. Google Adam Saad trade and it comes up 5 years at $650,000, yes we gave up pick 8, but we then got 48 back.

I think we paid slightly over the odds here, but not a great deal.

When we had been banking cap space the previous few years, paying $650,000 for a quality, durable and reliable player was a solid move.

Go your hardest on the Williams deal which was the same trade period, 4 years later and i still dont know if he’s a good player or not.,

Saady made all Australian last year didn't he?
Can't be all that bad....

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[TrueQldBlue]

He’s a 195cm bean pole. A jet of a VFL footballer, don’t know whether his attributes translate to AFL level

Is this McMahon from our VFL team?
If so he looks good on the highlights video on the CFC website ..

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[sweethoney]

Didn't essendon get Perkins or Cox for that pick? We're comfortably in front. Saad is all Australian

They took Zach Reid with that pick

 

[Opium]

They took Zach Reid with that pick

Our picks we traded are even cursed by injuries

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Take a look at the picks taken after binns it looks like an extremely week draft

Agree he might end up the best of the lot but it still seems pointless if he doesn’t bring what we need.

 

[Revenant1965]

Below is our list by age. For me, there are several factors. First, get rid of perennially injured players. Second,what can be done for next couple of years to be truly competitive. Third, what can be done in longer term.

If you go from Cripps down, and removing S.Durdin, Marchbank, Cuningham (plus Mirkov and Akuei), I actually don't think we are in a bad space long term. (I also think there will be other delistings/changes over next few years as part of a broader list strategy).

What I would like to see this year is a couple of picks before Ben Camporeale (1 a KPD, another a classy fast small mid or mid fwd), a clever DFA (ideally a reliable sort of KPD) to help, and a classy fast small mid via a trade.

I don't think it's all doom and gloom, and I reckon we'll do around 8 list changes (which is standard). Just need to be the right ones...

Name Age DOB
N Newman 31yr 6mth 15 Jan 1993
S Docherty 30yr 9mth 17 Oct 1993
A Saad 30yr 23 Jul 1994
Z Williams 29yr 10mth 20 Sep 1994
M McGovern 29yr 10mth 11 Oct 1994
J Martin 29yr 6mth 29 Jan 1995
P Cripps 29yr 4mth 18 Mar 1995
O Fantasia 28yr 10mth 14 Sep 1995
B Acres 28yr 10mth 7 Oct 1995
G Hewett 28yr 7mth 29 Dec 1995
M Pittonet 28yr 2mth 3 Jun 1996
S Durdin 28yr 2mth 6 Jun 1996
C Marchbank 27yr 8mth 7 Dec 1996
A Cincotta 27yr 7mth 17 Dec 1996
C Curnow 27yr 6mth 3 Feb 1997
M Owies 27yr 4mth 19 Mar 1997
D Cuningham 27yr 4mth 30 Mar 1997
M Kennedy 27yr 4mth 6 Apr 1997
J Weitering 26yr 8mth 23 Nov 1997
J Silvagni 26yr 7mth 17 Dec 1997
H McKay 26yr 7mth 24 Dec 1997
J Boyd 25yr 10mth 22 Sep 1998
L Young 25yr 7mth 20 Dec 1998
L Fogarty 25yr 4mth 1 Apr 1999
T De Koning 25yr 16 Jul 1999
A Cerra 24yr 10mth 7 Oct 1999
A Mirkov 24yr 8mth 17 Nov 1999
M Cottrell 24yr 5mth 29 Feb 2000
S Walsh 24yr 1mth 2 Jul 2000
B Kemp 23yr 3mth 1 May 2001
C Durdin 22yr 3mth 14 Apr 2002
E Hollands 22yr 3mth 25 Apr 2002
D Akuei 22yr 2mth 12 May 2002
J Carroll 21yr 7mth 20 Dec 2002
J Motlop 20yr 8mth 23 Nov 2003
O Hollands 20yr 6mth 16 Jan 2004
H Lemmey 20yr 6mth 30 Jan 2004
R Monahan 20yr 1mth 29 Jun 2004
J Binns 19yr 9mth 29 Oct 2004
L Cowan 19yr 8mth 1 Dec 2004
H O'Keeffe 19yr 7mth 16 Dec 2004
C Lord 19yr 4mth 20 Mar 2005
A Moir 19yr 3mth 15 Apr 2005
B Wilson 19yr 1mth 16 Jun 2005
M Carroll 18yr 8mth 28 Nov 2005

 

[bigm386]

I'm generally starting to wonder who on the list is untouchable and who should be made available.

I don't see how we can't make moves with our midfield. We need to look at trading out someone and stop trying to cram a bunch of slow mids into the 22. Imo.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Below is our list by age. For me, there are several factors. First, get rid of perennially injured players. Second,what can be done for next couple of years to be truly competitive. Third, what can be done in longer term.

If you go from Cripps down, and removing S.Durdin, Marchbank, Cuningham (plus Mirkov and Akuei), I actually don't think we are in a bad space long term. (I also think there will be other delistings/changes over next few years as part of a broader list strategy).

What I would like to see this year is a couple of picks before Ben Camporeale (1 a KPD, another a classy fast small mid or mid fwd), a clever DFA (ideally a reliable sort of KPD) to help, and a classy fast small mid via a trade.

I don't think it's all doom and gloom, and I reckon we'll do around 8 list changes (which is standard). Just need to be the right ones...

Name Age DOB
N Newman 31yr 6mth 15 Jan 1993
S Docherty 30yr 9mth 17 Oct 1993
A Saad 30yr 23 Jul 1994
Z Williams 29yr 10mth 20 Sep 1994
M McGovern 29yr 10mth 11 Oct 1994
J Martin 29yr 6mth 29 Jan 1995
P Cripps 29yr 4mth 18 Mar 1995
O Fantasia 28yr 10mth 14 Sep 1995
B Acres 28yr 10mth 7 Oct 1995
G Hewett 28yr 7mth 29 Dec 1995
M Pittonet 28yr 2mth 3 Jun 1996
S Durdin 28yr 2mth 6 Jun 1996
C Marchbank 27yr 8mth 7 Dec 1996
A Cincotta 27yr 7mth 17 Dec 1996
C Curnow 27yr 6mth 3 Feb 1997
M Owies 27yr 4mth 19 Mar 1997
D Cuningham 27yr 4mth 30 Mar 1997
M Kennedy 27yr 4mth 6 Apr 1997
J Weitering 26yr 8mth 23 Nov 1997
J Silvagni 26yr 7mth 17 Dec 1997
H McKay 26yr 7mth 24 Dec 1997
J Boyd 25yr 10mth 22 Sep 1998
L Young 25yr 7mth 20 Dec 1998
L Fogarty 25yr 4mth 1 Apr 1999
T De Koning 25yr 16 Jul 1999
A Cerra 24yr 10mth 7 Oct 1999
A Mirkov 24yr 8mth 17 Nov 1999
M Cottrell 24yr 5mth 29 Feb 2000
S Walsh 24yr 1mth 2 Jul 2000
B Kemp 23yr 3mth 1 May 2001
C Durdin 22yr 3mth 14 Apr 2002
E Hollands 22yr 3mth 25 Apr 2002
D Akuei 22yr 2mth 12 May 2002
J Carroll 21yr 7mth 20 Dec 2002
J Motlop 20yr 8mth 23 Nov 2003
O Hollands 20yr 6mth 16 Jan 2004
H Lemmey 20yr 6mth 30 Jan 2004
R Monahan 20yr 1mth 29 Jun 2004
J Binns 19yr 9mth 29 Oct 2004
L Cowan 19yr 8mth 1 Dec 2004
H O'Keeffe 19yr 7mth 16 Dec 2004
C Lord 19yr 4mth 20 Mar 2005
A Moir 19yr 3mth 15 Apr 2005
B Wilson 19yr 1mth 16 Jun 2005
M Carroll 18yr 8mth 28 Nov 2005

Agree 1 or 2 good FA's or trades and a good draft haul over the next couple of years and we're beautifully set up for the future.

Future line up in 2027 will hopefully look something like (Assuming all the older brigade are gone, which they won't be but for the sake of the hypothetical I've removed anyone older than the 2015 draft)

Travaglia (21) Weitering (30) Boyd (28)
Wilson (22) ????? (?) Cowan (23)
Binns (23) Cerra (28) O.Hollands (23)
Moir (22) Mckay (30) Durdin (25)
Motlop (24) Curnow (30) Berry (21)
Dekoning (28) Walsh (27) CWalker (19)

E.Hollands (25) BCampo (21) LCampo (21) Kemp (26) Lord (22)

I still have massive doubts on a few players there like Durdin and Motlop but with FA's and trades + some other draft picks over the next few years we should be able to round out some of the weaker spots as Gov, Saad, Newman, Williams etc retire.

The biggest issue is going to be replacing Cripps, Curnow, Mckay and Weiters while trying to stay in the premiership hunt and restricting our access to top line talent. All 4 are levels above anyone on our list in terms of raw talent, finding their replacements with late first round picks is going to be borderline impossible without some luck.

 

[AvantGardener]

Two issues is the key defence and our speed.

Need to make a play for Barrass. I guess Haynes is a fallback option but not that great.

Then speed. Next year Doc should be back. That leaves 3 creative types Doc, Saad and Newman down back. I would move Saad to the wing.

Play Elijah mid all year. Play Cincotta shut down mid all year. With his injury history play Cerra sub all year (our sub a big body mid or 5th string small forward has been terrible all year). That mix with Acres and Walsh in the middle of the ground all of a sudden gives us enough speed.

Hopefully Moir can come on, he got 5th in the agility test at draft so with him and William forward we have more speed down there.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'm generally starting to wonder who on the list is untouchable and who should be made available.

I don't see how we can't make moves with our midfield. We need to look at trading out someone and stop trying to cram a bunch of slow mids into the 22. Imo.

My opinion on untouchables in our 22 (Without a full blown list blow up occurring)

Saad Weitering ------
Newman ------ ------
Acres Cripps -----
----- Mckay -----
----- Curnow -----
Dekoning Walsh -----

E.Hollands ----- Cowan -----

Not all the rest should be up for trade, such as Ollie, Fog etc but imo this is our core group who give it their all every week and provide leadership/fill an important role in the team.

 

[Accidental genius]

I'm generally starting to wonder who on the list is untouchable and who should be made available.

I don't see how we can't make moves with our midfield. We need to look at trading out someone and stop trying to cram a bunch of slow mids into the 22. Imo.

I agree, I think our midfield needs a rejig quick smart.

Cripps is the only untouchable imo.

Walsh - either trade or move him to a wing (if he can play that role). He is the one that prolly has the highest trade value (outside of crippa). We could make a real difference bringing in a quick mid with good kicking skills.

Cerra - Good kick but hamstring now a real concern...trade while he has value?

Kennedy - Id keep because he is versatile

Hewett - kicks have no penetration...could keep or trade

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Two issues is the key defence and our speed.

Need to make a play for Barrass. I guess Haynes is a fallback option but not that great.

Then speed. Next year Doc should be back. That leaves 3 creative types Doc, Saad and Newman down back. I would move Saad to the wing.

Play Elijah mid all year. Play Cincotta shut down mid all year. With his injury history play Cerra sub all year (our sub a big body mid or 5th string small forward has been terrible all year). That mix with Acres and Walsh in the middle of the ground all of a sudden gives us enough speed.

Hopefully Moir can come on, he got 5th in the agility test at draft so with him and William forward we have more speed down there.

We're going to play Cerra as a sub for a whole year???? What???

 

[Revenant1965]

Agree 1 or 2 good FA's or trades and a good draft haul over the next couple of years and we're beautifully set up for the future.

Future line up in 2027 will hopefully look something like (Assuming all the older brigade are gone, which they won't be but for the sake of the hypothetical I've removed anyone older than the 2015 draft)

Travaglia (21) Weitering (30) Boyd (28)
Wilson (22) ????? (?) Cowan (23)
Binns (23) Cerra (28) O.Hollands (23)
Moir (22) Mckay (30) Durdin (25)
Motlop (24) Curnow (30) Berry (21)
Dekoning (28) Walsh (27) CWalker (19)

E.Hollands (25) BCampo (21) LCampo (21) Kemp (26) Lord (22)

I still have massive doubts on a few players there like Durdin and Motlop but with FA's and trades + some other draft picks over the next few years we should be able to round out some of the weaker spots as Gov, Saad, Newman, Williams etc retire.

The biggest issue is going to be replacing Cripps, Curnow, Mckay and Weiters while trying to stay in the premiership hunt and restricting our access to top line talent. All 4 are levels above anyone on our list in terms of raw talent, finding their replacements with late first round picks is going to be borderline impossible without some luck.

Personally, I don't mind your 2027 23 (and I understand the purpose of your exercise - 30 and under). However, I do think Cripps will be there. And I would love to see a couple of more quality pacier players on the bench.
Even though the sun doesn't seem to be shining on us at the moment (and I do think there are some other changes that need to be made off-field), it's certainly not all darkness for me.

 

[AvantGardener]

We're going to play Cerra as a sub for a whole year???? What???

He got through 9 full games this year. I've lost count of the the hamstrings he has done the past 2 years. His body isn't up to it and will be the next Jack Martin/David Cuningham if not managed.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Personally, I don't mind your 2027 23 (and I understand the purpose of your exercise - 30 and under). However, I do think Cripps will be there. And I would love to see a couple of more quality pacier players on the bench.
Even though the sun doesn't seem to be shining on us at the moment (and I do think there are some other changes that need to be made off-field), it's certainly not all darkness for me.

Agree, I think some of Cripps, Saad, Newman, Acres etc will be there in 2027 and I'd much rather have some more speed on the field. It's hard to predict which FA's and trades the club could acquire to solve that without knowing who's on the market those years but it's definitely not doom and gloom. The issue for me is that we're wasting a great shot at the flag while all our good players are in their primes.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

He got through 9 full games this year. I've lost count of the the hamstrings he has done the past 2 years. His body isn't up to it and will be the next Jack Martin/David Cuningham if not managed.

And he won't be playing for us on 700k a season as a full time sub. If that were the case we'd be trading him.

 

[AvantGardener]

And he won't be playing for us on 700k a season as a full time sub. If that were the case we'd be trading him.

Who's in the market for a player that has done about 5 hamstrings in 2 years? What are they giving up for him?

We're not getting anything near what he is worth at his best so trading isn't a viable option.

Otherwise you can have your head in the sand, play him for a month, miss him for a month with a hammy, play him for a couple weeks, miss him for a month with another hammy and then have him return subpar as we seen throughout July because he has no match fitness.

 

[Accidental genius]

Who's in the market for a player that has done about 5 hamstrings in 2 years? What are they giving up for him?

We're not getting anything near what he is worth at his best so trading isn't a viable option.

Otherwise you can have your head in the sand, play him for a month, miss him for a month with a hammy, play him for a couple weeks, miss him for a month with another hammy and then have him return subpar as we seen throughout July because he has no match fitness.

I think instead of being sub each week, the club will need to manage him (and a few others) a bit better.

If he has trade value Id trade him because he is on good coin and you expect players to be available most weeks.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Who's in the market for a player that has done about 5 hamstrings in 2 years? What are they giving up for him?

We're not getting anything near what he is worth at his best so trading isn't a viable option.

Otherwise you can have your head in the sand, play him for a month, miss him for a month with a hammy, play him for a couple weeks, miss him for a month with another hammy and then have him return subpar as we seen throughout July because he has no match fitness.

Or you know... We could find a new fitness boss who isn't going to have about 15 hammy injuries occurring in a season under his watch?

Cerra is young and while he's had plenty of hammy issues the last 2 years is still a quality player and professional enough to get back to his best without having to play as a substitute for a whole year.

Look at Treloar a few years back, he did a hammy every 2nd week... Still goes alright these days and he's over the age of 30 now.

 

[sweethoney]

Who's in the market for a player that has done about 5 hamstrings in 2 years? What are they giving up for him?

We're not getting anything near what he is worth at his best so trading isn't a viable option.

Otherwise you can have your head in the sand, play him for a month, miss him for a month with a hammy, play him for a couple weeks, miss him for a month with another hammy and then have him return subpar as we seen throughout July because he has no match fitness.

Who says he can’t get them right under a new fitness coach. Darcy Moore’s hammy’s were just as bad in 2018, only played 6 games that year because of them