List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[dlanod]

Especially as the AFL has said they specifically prohibit such assurances, to the point that teams actually have to sign some such paperwork as part of the trade.

That had to be the stupidest part of grandstanding I've seen with regards to D&T work by the AFL.

Problem: teams aren't bidding where other teams think they should.

Solution: don't bother doing any analysis on reasoning, instead make sure nothing's in writing.

Except even if it was happening nothing was ever in writing, so that was never the problem.

 

[spotthedog1]

I wouldn’t call Lester, Doedee or Morris KPPs. But Joyce would be borderline AFL quality

Well, I'm going to disagree with you there. And given some of the jobs Lester did over the Finals Series, I think Fages might disagree with you too. Lester is an undersized KPP, plays tall or small.

Tom Doedee, to my understanding, plays undersized intercepting KPD too.

Morris... what else are you going to call him? He's not a small forward (eg. Charlie). He's not a medium forward (eg. Bailey/Rayner). He's a tall forward. A 3rd tall, sure. But a tall forward.

 

[spotthedog1]

They need to be able to ruck.

No. Joe was able to ruck. Joe's replacement does not automatically have to be Joe.

Hipwood has the height to backup ruck, put some work into him over the summer, have a go (for 5 mins at a time giving Oscar a chopout... Josh Dunkley can backup ruck. Hell, Charlie Cameron has gone into the ruck.

I'd happily let Darcy Gardiner have a go as backup.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Well, I'm going to disagree with you there. And given some of the jobs Lester did over the Finals Series, I think Fages might disagree with you too. Lester is an undersized KPP, plays tall or small.

Tom Doedee, to my understanding, plays undersized intercepting KPD too.

Morris... what else are you going to call him? He's not a small forward (eg. Charlie). He's not a medium forward (eg. Bailey/Rayner). He's a tall forward. A 3rd tall, sure. But a tall forward.

Lester, Doedee and Morris are third talls. You don't want them playing on true KPPs.

They've been reluctant to play Lester on marking talls all season. Maybe a resting ruck or a slow, shorter guy. He gave up our 2 marks inside 50 to McLean and Amartey in the GF

Doedee similarly plays on a ruck who isn't much of a marking threat or one of the less threatening smalls with the plan to run off and intercept

If we play Carlton we don't want either on McKay or Curnow

Morris too has the advantage of outmarking smaller backmen. That gets taken away on better tall key backs

 

[Nathan Barley]

No. Joe was able to ruck. Joe's replacement does not automatically have to be Joe.

Hipwood has the height to backup ruck, put some work into him over the summer, have a go (for 5 mins at a time giving Oscar a chopout... Josh Dunkley can backup ruck. Hell, Charlie Cameron has gone into the ruck.

I'd happily let Darcy Gardiner have a go as backup.

And if Oscar pops his shoulder in the first quarter?

 

[Brett C]

Pick 20 midfielder with pick 75 hamstrings.

Needs to come to the Lions, we’ve got a history with dodgy hamstrings

 

[Elixuh]

And if Oscar pops his shoulder in the first quarter?

Bone block

 

[Nathan Barley]

Bone block

View attachment 2135984

On both shoulders?

 

[knaf]

A forward line of Tom McDonald

25

Tom Mcdonald

Age

32

Ht

195cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

261.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.6

1star

MG

135.6

2star

D

13.8

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

, Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

32

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

, Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

23

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

won a premiership. Players playing their role can kick a winning score.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Payne and foot issues have been hand in hand all through his career. Hard center square surface of Gabba is the last place we should be putting him on.

Qscan Injury Update: Jack Payne Expected to Miss

The Brisbane Lions confirm defender Jack Payne is expected to miss up to six weeks due to bone stress of his right foot.

www.lions.com.au

Totally agree, Jack was a very good discus thrower at the junior level and tipped to go on to the olympics but he chose footy. He was always a big kid and that twisting and turning in his growth years has probably come back to bite a bit.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Bone block

View attachment 2135984

I think Lachie Neal has one of these in his shoulder, I seem to recall mid talking about it on some footy show saying it stopped his shoulder popping out.

 

[spotthedog1]

Lester, Doedee and Morris are third talls. You don't want them playing on true KPPs.

They've been reluctant to play Lester on marking talls all season. Maybe a resting ruck or a slow, shorter guy. He gave up our 2 marks inside 50 to McLean and Amartey in the GF

Doedee similarly plays on a ruck who isn't much of a marking threat or one of the less threatening smalls with the plan to run off and intercept

If we play Carlton we don't want either on McKay or Curnow

Morris too has the advantage of outmarking smaller backmen. That gets taken away on better tall key backs

Fagan, with Andrews, Payne and Lester to choose from, chose to put Lester on Amartey and McLean. I presume you accept they're Key Fwds. ThIs the week after he shut down Jeremy Cameron. I presume you accept that he's a Key Fwd. But you're suggesting that despite these matchups, the coach is reluctant to play Lester on marking talls.

I'm just not getting the distinctions here. It seems pointless and designed to have a whinge. "He's tall, but he's not key. He's 3rd tall". Really want to get into a definitional debate? Why?

Morris is a first year, developing, key fwd. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

[Clarkythelion]

It would be naive to think such assurances don't happen off the books though.

I think Richmond will think about picking Ashcroft at pick 1 for about 30 seconds - Picks 1 and 2 will receive cash bonuses of $10,000 and $5,000 respectively and clubs may want to reward their own players rather than a draftee headed for a rival club e.g Daicos and Will Ashcroft.

 

[spotthedog1]

And if Oscar pops his shoulder in the first quarter?

Bone block, can't pop out. But the premise is valid. What if he gets concussed, etc.

Question: what would you rather.

1. A key fwd rated at a 6/10 who can't ruck. If Oscar goes down, we're giving Dunkley, Hipwood, whoever a try for the rest of the game.

2. A Fwd/Ruck rated 4/10 who can ruck 4/10. If Oscar goes down, we have a bit more cover.

I'd prefer to plan for 95% of the time, not 5% of the time. And yes, I'm aware that without Joe's rucking, we wouldn't have survived the prelim. But Joe isn't an option any more. And frankly playing a Tom Fullarton style fwd just coz he can ruck averagely... not my preference.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Fagan, with Andrews, Payne and Lester to choose from, chose to put Lester on Amartey and McLean. I presume you accept they're Key Fwds. ThIs the week after he shut down Jeremy Cameron. I presume you accept that he's a Key Fwd. But you're suggesting that despite these matchups, the coach is reluctant to play Lester on marking talls.

I'm just not getting the distinctions here. It seems pointless and designed to have a whinge. "He's tall, but he's not key. He's 3rd tall". Really want to get into a definitional debate? Why?

Morris is a first year, developing, key fwd. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

McLean is not a marking threat. Jezza is relying heavily at the moment on his athleticism and getting up the ground as a flanker

Lester is not tall. He's an undersized key back if that's where you're playing him

 

[Nathan Barley]

Bone block, can't pop out. But the premise is valid. What if he gets concussed, etc.

Question: what would you rather.

1. A key fwd rated at a 6/10 who can't ruck. If Oscar goes down, we're giving Dunkley, Hipwood, whoever a try for the rest of the game.

2. A Fwd/Ruck rated 4/10 who can ruck 4/10. If Oscar goes down, we have a bit more cover.

I'd prefer to plan for 95% of the time, not 5% of the time. And yes, I'm aware that without Joe's rucking, we wouldn't have survived the prelim. But Joe isn't an option any more. And frankly playing a Tom Fullarton style fwd just coz he can ruck averagely... not my preference.

But we're talking about Dizzy or Morris being our main target when Hipwood rucks. That is not a functional forwardline especially when we're playing a dud ruck

That's why Smith is being suggested. He's the 4/10 forward who can ruck ok.

 

[Perrip]

Twomey sounded unsure if a Dev Rob trade would eventuate on Gettable just then.

 

[Tom14]

Twomey sounded unsure if a Dev Rob trade would eventuate on Gettable just then.

West coast have added baker and graham - don’t think there is a spot for him given its super likely west coast will also draft a mid imo.

 

[Elixuh]

On both shoulders?

 

[spotthedog1]

But we're talking about Dizzy or Morris being our main target when Hipwood rucks. That is not a functional forwardline especially when we're playing a dud ruck

That's why Smith is being suggested. He's the 4/10 forward who can ruck ok.

I'm just going to leave the "is Lester a tall" debate because it just comes down to definitions and that's a waste of time. I say Key Defender is synonymous with Tall Defender. You say that talls can be Key or 3rd. Not worth arguing about, or really worth you putting laughing emojis on every post you slightly disagree with just to convince yourself that you're the smartest and anyone you disagree with is an idiot. A little courtesy eh?

I get that if we through Hipwood to ruck for 5 mins a quarter, that means we have a smaller forward line for 5 mins a quarter. I don't see the problem. Height isn't the only factor.

If you have a 200cm forward on a 190cm back, sure, kick it on his head and you'll have a slight advantage. If you have a 190cm forward on a 200cm defender... don't plonk it on his head quite so often.

We'll develop a plan for ruck backup, I'm sure. I'm just not convinced we have to base our recruitment here around "can he ruck?". I'd rather get the best forward we can (likely fringe anyway), over a worse forward who can pinch hit.

 

[Dalions]

Ralphy is a VFL mouthpiece and a Tigers nuffy. He isn’t going to accuse them of draft tampering. He will write some not so subtle piece about how messed up it is that the lions are getting these rorts.

I personally don’t think Richmond will bid on Ashcroft but I could definitely see them bidding on Sam Marshall earlier than expected.

 

[briztoon]

It would be naive to think such assurances don't happen off the books though.

Of course.

 

[Pns_blister]

A forward line of Tom McDonald, Ben Brown, Luke Jackson won a premiership. Players playing their role can kick a winning score.

Let us not forget about Cox, Frampton and Mihocek

 

[SpecialBruce]

Twomey sounded unsure if a Dev Rob trade would eventuate on Gettable just then.

Possible he is delisted then?

 

[Perrip]

Possible he is delisted then?

Still contracted till 2025 with us.