List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Surly Boy]

Update on Lloyd interest? Paywalled...

 

[rye]

I know he's a great bloke and all that . OK I knock him fairly often. Pretend I'm Beardancer.

 

[Squizz89]

Update on Lloyd interest? Paywalled...

Nothing really new in terms of whether we are taking him or not, just clarification as to what has been discussed in here already ie is he actually available. It seems like we could pick him reading the below.

Edit. I guess if he lines up for the ressies this weekend though it would seem like our intention is to pick him.

The article itself just an updated version of the article the other day. Also I guess of interest is that Ralphy thinks we take 3 “at most” now in the MSD.

Retired GWS forward Daniel LLoyd could return to AFL at the Brisbane Lions​

Brisbane is considering a left-field decision to secure ex-GWS forward Daniel Lloyd in the mid-season draft but would need AFL approval to make him eligible to play in the back-end of the season.
The Lions list team will this week consider how to fill some of their four vacant list spots after recent knee reconstructions to Tom Doedee, Kidean Coleman, Darcy Gardiner and Lincoln McCarthy.

Lloyd is working with Brisbane as a development coach but the club has been urged by its players to consider nominating him for the May 28 mid-season draft given how well he has performed on the track in his duties helping players.

Brisbane players including Dayne Zorko and Joe Daniher have remarked upon his incredible level of fitness and footy smarts since he started with the Lions in a development capacity over summer.

Zorko threw up his name as a potential recruit in recent days given how fit he looks as he works with the club’s younger players.

The problem is that he does not perfectly fit the criteria for the mid-season draft because he has not played three state league games in the VFL or a comparable league this year.

The mid-season draft is only for players overlooked in a draft or recently delisted who have played at least three state league games before May 28.

The Giants officially declared him retired last year but the Lions believe as a delisted player he could overcome that obstacle, but the league would have to use its powers to nominate him with only two VFL games.

He played his first game of the season for Morningside last weekend and kicked a goal.

This weekend the Lions VFL team had a bye, so there are only two VFL games before May 28.

If the Lions attempt to secure him a nomination he could play the next two VFL games for their side.

He played all three finals in a 23-game season last year for the Giants to finish his AFL career with 101 games and at only 32 years of age might be a perfect addition for the Lions.

Lloyd would be a direct replacement for ACL victims Lincoln McCarthy and Darcy Gardiner at Brisbane as a leading small target.

Brisbane has four spots available for the May 28 mid-season draft but is only likely to take three spots at most.

 

[Surly Boy]

Nothing really new in terms of whether we are taking him or not, just clarification as to what has been discussed in here already ie is he actually available. It seems like we could pick him reading the below.

The article itself just an updated version of the article the other day. Also I guess of interest is that Ralphy thinks we take 3 “at most” now in the MSD.

Retired GWS forward Daniel LLoyd could return to AFL at the Brisbane Lions​

Brisbane is considering a left-field decision to secure ex-GWS forward Daniel Lloyd in the mid-season draft but would need AFL approval to make him eligible to play in the back-end of the season.
The Lions list team will this week consider how to fill some of their four vacant list spots after recent knee reconstructions to Tom Doedee, Kidean Coleman, Darcy Gardiner and Lincoln McCarthy.

Lloyd is working with Brisbane as a development coach but the club has been urged by its players to consider nominating him for the May 28 mid-season draft given how well he has performed on the track in his duties helping players.

Brisbane players including Dayne Zorko and Joe Daniher have remarked upon his incredible level of fitness and footy smarts since he started with the Lions in a development capacity over summer.

Zorko threw up his name as a potential recruit in recent days given how fit he looks as he works with the club’s younger players.

The problem is that he does not perfectly fit the criteria for the mid-season draft because he has not played three state league games in the VFL or a comparable league this year.

The mid-season draft is only for players overlooked in a draft or recently delisted who have played at least three state league games before May 28.

The Giants officially declared him retired last year but the Lions believe as a delisted player he could overcome that obstacle, but the league would have to use its powers to nominate him with only two VFL games.

He played his first game of the season for Morningside last weekend and kicked a goal.

This weekend the Lions VFL team had a bye, so there are only two VFL games before May 28.

If the Lions attempt to secure him a nomination he could play the next two VFL games for their side.

He played all three finals in a 23-game season last year for the Giants to finish his AFL career with 101 games and at only 32 years of age might be a perfect addition for the Lions.

Lloyd would be a direct replacement for ACL victims Lincoln McCarthy and Darcy Gardiner at Brisbane as a leading small target.

Brisbane has four spots available for the May 28 mid-season draft but is only likely to take three spots at most.

Thanks. Interesting short term player/coach option I guess.

 

[martinson]

Nothing really new in terms of whether we are taking him or not, just clarification as to what has been discussed in here already ie is he actually available. It seems like we could pick him reading the below.

The article itself just an updated version of the article the other day. Also I guess of interest is that Ralphy thinks we take 3 at most now in the MSD as per below.

Retired GWS forward Daniel LLoyd could return to AFL at the Brisbane Lions​

Brisbane is considering a left-field decision to secure ex-GWS forward Daniel Lloyd in the mid-season draft but would need AFL approval to make him eligible to play in the back-end of the season.
The Lions list team will this week consider how to fill some of their four vacant list spots after recent knee reconstructions to Tom Doedee, Kidean Coleman, Darcy Gardiner and Lincoln McCarthy.

Lloyd is working with Brisbane as a development coach but the club has been urged by its players to consider nominating him for the May 28 mid-season draft given how well he has performed on the track in his duties helping players.

Brisbane players including Dayne Zorko and Joe Daniher have remarked upon his incredible level of fitness and footy smarts since he started with the Lions in a development capacity over summer.

Zorko threw up his name as a potential recruit in recent days given how fit he looks as he works with the club’s younger players.

The problem is that he does not perfectly fit the criteria for the mid-season draft because he has not played three state league games in the VFL or a comparable league this year.

The mid-season draft is only for players overlooked in a draft or recently delisted who have played at least three state league games before May 28.

The Giants officially declared him retired last year but the Lions believe as a delisted player he could overcome that obstacle, but the league would have to use its powers to nominate him with only two VFL games.

He played his first game of the season for Morningside last weekend and kicked a goal.

This weekend the Lions VFL team had a bye, so there are only two VFL games before May 28.

If the Lions attempt to secure him a nomination he could play the next two VFL games for their side.

He played all three finals in a 23-game season last year for the Giants to finish his AFL career with 101 games and at only 32 years of age might be a perfect addition for the Lions.

Lloyd would be a direct replacement for ACL victims Lincoln McCarthy and Darcy Gardiner at Brisbane as a leading small target.

Brisbane has four spots available for the May 28 mid-season draft but is only likely to take three spots at most.

I believe it's happening.

No insight because I don't know where he's at playing wise now but he's a toughnut team first player and that would help if he's up to it.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Come on Nathan ,there's no one on here or in footy and follows us who didn't think that was nuts.

Just watch him for the whole game . Especially when he doesn't get the ball.

He's spending a lot of the game in the forward line and not using a lot of gas, when's the last time you saw him get it in the back half like Ah Chee yesterday , with minimal impact in the game. This is what generally happens.

If he's ever going to be any good let's find out. Put him in the 2's and let him completely dominate if he's that good ,or give him a role commensurate with what we're paying him.

I know he's a great bloke and all that . OK I knock him fairly often. Pretend I'm Beardancer.

That spilt mark at the end where he had no idea did me in. Yes we all know it can happen to anyone. If he was accepted as just an average player in and out of the team that's fine . If he's 5th b/f good , well I've seen it for about 5 quarters in 5 years.

Except those who count, our coaches

 

[martinson]

Except those who count, our coaches

Correct.

He's been pampered and doesn't do enough at all most of the time imo , but the way we manage him isn't changing any time soon.

 

[Scubaveg]

Let's have a conversation about Rayner - not about what he could be? not about how this will be his break out game, or his break out season but about the reality of of where he is actually at.

As a number 1 draft pick he is at the lower end, as an elite AFL player he is at the lower end. Each year we get half a game and he blows it apart and we all dance and think he has arrived, but the reality is that he is a pretty inconsistent, average player.

He could still step up, he could still be elite, I hope he does.

I'm thinking if we have the 2 Ashcroft boys and Bailey back, Kiddy back next year then Cam would not be in out top team.

What would Rayner be worth on the trade table? A decent first round pick we could trade for a more consistent performer? his 7th year must be up soon and i don't think I'd be matching a high bid and he would maybe an end of first round draft compensation at best on his actual performances.

First thing I'd do this year is move Rayner on. Centre of the preseason debacle, goes missing, can't be relied upon. Of deceasing value. Move him on now.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Viceregal]

. Pretend I'm Beardancer.

Oh we couldn't do that!!!!

 

[Darren Downunder]

First thing I'd do this year is move Rayner on. Centre of the preseason debacle, goes missing, can't be relied upon. Of deceasing value. Move him on now.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

What was the “pre season debacle”. Is this the thing that supposedly happened in Las Vegas? What was that?

 

[martinson]

First thing I'd do this year is move Rayner on. Centre of the preseason debacle, goes missing, can't be relied upon. Of deceasing value. Move him on now.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I have to be honest.

I'm with you. I took the GF spare back effort most bitterly and presumed we'd never see that sort of lackadaisical lack of focus/effort again.

So that's where I'm coming from . It's still happening except for the one quarter tease. Like everyone else I so want him to be good but I don't think it'll be with us.

He'll kick 5 against the Tiges though.

We're actually spoilt for small forward/back options. What we need are gut runners in the M/F and some pace around the flanks. Our key backs are good/excellent , maybe could do with a solid backup there. Our key forwards are ok on their day. How do you find key forwards ? I'd love a more mobile around the ground ruck but we have what we have and he's ok.

 

[Sproj]

I think it would be interesting to compare the efforts of Lohmann to Rayner. The data may not back this up but at least to the eye, Lohmann seems to pop up everywhere, including helping out toward the defensive 50. Rayner, usually last scene slowly jogging away from where the ball just was.

Rayner has excellent strength and can burst out of a pack but he can barely do it for one quarter, let alone a whole game. So again, I am not pushing him out the door but I wouldn't be standing in his way either. Of course that said, if Cluggs and/or Berry exit, then having him on board does become important, at least to help nurture the kids. If they stay, well unless Rayner finally takes that next step after years of waiting, I'm not going to be disappointed if he leaves IF we get a strong return.

 

[McIvor]

I have to be honest.

I'm with you. I took the GF spare back effort most bitterly and presumed we'd never see that sort of lackadaisical lack of focus/effort again.

So that's where I'm coming from . It's still happening except for the one quarter tease. Like everyone else I so want him to be good but I don't think it'll be with us.

He'll kick 5 against the Tiges though.

We're actually spoilt for small forward/back options. What we need are gut runners in the M/F and some pace around the flanks. Our key backs are good/excellent , maybe could do with a solid backup there. Our key forwards are ok on their day. How do you find key forwards ? I'd love a more mobile around the ground ruck but we have what we have and he's ok.

I also think Rayner will be challenged in a new environment and his first season elsewhere will likely be something else. If he was challenged internally, I just don’t think he puts up these average performances week after week.

 

[davemc_lions]

I also think Rayner will be challenged in a new environment and his first season elsewhere will likely be something else. If he was challenged internally, I just don’t think he puts up these average performances week after week.

I was one of those who did not mind him off HB last year.
Then he had a good game when we threw him forward and that was the end of that.
He is a good mark some guys better behind the ball then in front of it.

Also said a few times I play Hipwood on a wing as well.
Think both him and Joe often play better outside the forward 50.

 

[Viceregal]

Of course that said, if Cluggs and/or Berry exit, then having him on board does become important, at least to help nurture the kids.

Not sure I am comfortable with Cam being the prime role model for our younger players... ...

 

[McIvor]

Question for those in the know but do players that get picked up in the MSD join the primary or rookie list - not that there appears to be any difference anyway - or depends where the vacancy in the list is?

 

[briztoon]

Question for those in the know but do players that get picked up in the MSD join the primary or rookie list - not that there appears to be any difference anyway - or depends where the vacancy in the list is?

Rookie list.

 

[T Rick]

Rookie list.

So what is the difference these days?

 

[Nathan Barley]

So what is the difference these days?

You can only be on the rookie list for 3 seasons. Not sure there are any restrictions for cat A rookies

 

[McIvor]

I personally don’t see the point of rookie lists; I mean would it really matter if a list just consisted of x amount of players ~42-44?

I mean I appreciate they have this B list for internationals and AFL converts but even then couldn’t you say you can only have a maximum of 42 and no more than 2 category Bs?

 

[Nuggo]

I am assuming rookie listed players don't get paid as much as those on the primary list - cost cutting measure so quite important I would imagine.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I am assuming rookie listed players don't get paid as much as those on the primary list - cost cutting measure so quite important I would imagine.

And the drafting mechanisms like predicting academy picks

Pretty sure they only get a 1 year deal as well

 

[BuntonRules]

The bottom line is, Cam Raynor is just not a very good footballer.

 

[Sproj]

The bottom line is, Cam Raynor is just not a very good footballer.

Even as a bloke who floats in and out of games, we could really use him if he came up clutch when the big moments come but he doesn’t even do that.

 

[briztoon]

So what is the difference these days?

Rookie contracts are not counted in the TPP (salary), they are counted under the soft cap.