List Mgmt. 2024 List management Discussion

[Mat Mann]

This is solely for list management discussion, Trades discussion goes in the trade thread, and Draft prospect discussion goes in it's relevant thread.

Spoiler: Draft Order

Spoiler: Contract Status

Name Final Year Years Service* Status Angus Hastie 2025 2 Unknown Angus McLennan 2024 2 Non-Free Agent Anthony Caminiti 2026 4 Non-Free Agent Arie Schoenmaker 2025 2 Unknown Ben Paton 2024 7 Non-Free Agent Brad Crouch 2025 5 Non-Free Agent Bradley Hill 2027 8 Restricted Free Agent Callum Wilkie 2027 9 Restricted Free Agent Cooper Sharman 2024 4 Non-Free Agent Daniel Butler 2024 5 Non-Free Agent Darcy Wilson 2026 3 Non-Free Agent Dougal Howard 2024 5 Non-Free Agent Hugo Garcia 2025 2 Unknown Hunter Clark 2025 8 Restricted Free Agent Isaac Keeler 2024 2 Non-Free Agent Jack Hayes 2024 3 Non-Free Agent Jack Higgins 2027 7 Non-Free Agent Jack Sinclair 2027 13 Unrestricted Free Agent Jack Steele 2027 11 Unrestricted Free Agent James Van Es 2024 2 DELISTED Jimmy Webster 2024 13 Unrestricted Free Agent Josh Battle 2024 8 UFA - leaving for Hawthorn Lance Collard 2026 3 Non-Free Agent Liam Henry 2027 4 Non-Free Agent Liam O'Connell 2025 2 Unknown Liam Stocker 2024 2 Unrestricted Free Agent Marcus Windhager 2025 4 Non-Free Agent Mason Wood 2024 4 UFA + 3 years (2027) Mattaes Phillipou 2026 4 Non-Free Agent Matthew Allison 2024 4 DELISTED Max Hall 2025 2 Non-Free Agent Max Heath 2024 4 Non-Free Agent Max King 2026 8 Restricted Free Agent Mitchito Owens 2025 4 Non-Free Agent Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 2025 4 Non-Free Agent Olli Hotton 2024 2 Non-Free Agent Paddy Dow 2026 3 Non-Free Agent Riley Bonner 2024 1 DELISTED Rowan Marshall 2027 11 Unrestricted Free Agent Ryan Byrnes 2024 5 Non-Free Agent Sebastian Ross 2024 13 DELISTED Tim Membrey 2024 10 Unrestricted Free Agent Tom Campbell 2024 3 DELISTED Zaine Cordy 2025 3 Non-Free Agent Zak Jones 2024 5 Non-Free Agent * Years service at end of contract.

Spoiler: Trade/Draft periods

Free Agency - Friday, October 4 and will run until Friday, October 11.
Trade Period - Monday, October 7 and will run until Wednesday, October 16.
National Draft - Round One - Wednesday, November 20 followed by the remaining rounds of the
National Draft - The rest - Thursday, November 21.
Rookie and Pre-Season Draft - Friday, November 22.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I’d definitely be giving Crazy another year.
Worth a punt to see if he can get himself right.
Let’s put it this way, I’d rather take a punt on him than a Sandy rookie, that’s just a ****en downgrade.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Houston favours a move to the blues over the saints - Edmund

Didn’t overly want him anyway but he’s clearly suffering from CTE

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Didn’t overly want him anyway but he’s clearly suffering from CTE

They can have him.
Weird though that he wasn’t even entertaining a move last week and yet Edmund knows his team preference.

 

[Klaatu]

They can have him.
Weird though that he wasn’t even entertaining a move last week and yet Edmund knows his team preference.

Edmund throwing dart's which happens to be the side he supports.

 

[BrutThough]

Houston favours a move to the blues over the saints - Edmund

Good given what he would cost. But does Carlton have a salary cap?

 

[botts]

Good given what he would cost. But does Carlton have a salary cap?

Carlton surely couldn’t afford him. If they do. We go all chips in for TDK next year when he is out of contract

 

[austinnn]

I’d definitely be giving Crazy another year.
Worth a punt to see if he can get himself right.
Let’s put it this way, I’d rather take a punt on him than a Sandy rookie, that’s just a ****en downgrade.

Who's Crazy?

We all are

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Who's Crazy?

We all are

Crazy Hayesy

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Houston favours a move to the blues over the saints - Edmund

Of course he does

 

[Moral Decay]

Of course he does

There's a real and urgent need for him at The Blues not so much here, vs we need a mid boost like a desert needs the rain.

 

[gringo2011]

If I may zag for a bit...

At the end of 2019, it was clear we needed outside class. We needed another tall defender. We needed a pressure small forward. We needed another ruckman.

So we went and got them.

North Melbourne just keep picking at the top of the draft and taking the best available. They have a surfeit of inside mids.

And they need outside class. They need a tall defender.

There's no right way to build a list. There is certainly a wrong way, so I guess the right way is "not that", but it doesn't always work. There are many reasons a player might not make it, whether they walk into a club at 18 or 29 years old.

If there is an opportunity to trade in for need, we will do it and hopefully not at an exorbitant cost. Otherwise just get the best players in and develop them.

Surely we can all see the development has improved. Five hands down best 22 players (none KPPs BTW) have walked through the door via the draft in the last three years. Grab another 2-3 this year and that is an excellent basis for prolonged competitiveness and better.

But don't discount if suddenly Zac Butters became available this time next week for a fair price. You have to assess opportunities when they arise with the best information you have at the time, which is what I think we did in 2019.

We hadn’t built the foundation to decorate in the draft. The guys we paid up for are probably all gone by the time we are ready to contend and we’re having to draft now and do it upside down. We made our rebuild take 15+ years instead of 5. Everyone involved has been sacked. Gags had even maxed our cap out so had to start selling off guys like Bruce and Hickey to make space.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Macrae, us or Blues or Cats or Dees or Hawks???

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Of course he does

I really struggle to comprehend how the blues, the dogs and the cats don’t have salary cap constraints. How the hell could Carlton possibly fit Houston in. Walsh, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Zac Williams, TDK, Weiteiring and McGovan all recruited or signed on big coin.

Also, it was reported Smith is going to the cats on what was described as not a significant contract. Why would a player heading into their prime, with enormous earning potential accept a modest contract. There’s gotta be illegal fringe benefits involved. Not sure why the AFL haven’t properly investigated Geelong’s deals outside the cap.
Selwood, Dangerfield, Hawkins, just a few that have been ‘happy’ to play for much less than market rate.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I really struggle to comprehend how the blues, the dogs and the cats don’t have salary cap constraints. How the hell could Carlton possibly fit Houston in. Walsh, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Zac Williams, TDK, Weiteiring and McGovan all recruited or signed on big coin.

Also, it was reported Smith is going to the cats on what was described as not a significant contract. Why would a player heading into their prime, with enormous earning potential accept a modest contract. There’s gotta be illegal fringe benefits involved. Not sure why the AFL haven’t properly investigated Geelong’s deals outside the cap.
Selwood, Dangerfield, Hawkins, just a few that have been ‘happy’ to play for much less than market rate.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I really struggle to comprehend how the blues, the dogs and the cats don’t have salary cap constraints. How the hell could Carlton possibly fit Houston in. Walsh, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Zac Williams, TDK, Weiteiring and McGovan all recruited or signed on big coin.

Also, it was reported Smith is going to the cats on what was described as not a significant contract. Why would a player heading into their prime, with enormous earning potential accept a modest contract. There’s gotta be illegal fringe benefits involved. Not sure why the AFL haven’t properly investigated Geelong’s deals outside the cap.
Selwood, Dangerfield, Hawkins, just a few that have been ‘happy’ to play for much less than market rate.

This is how they get the deals done and players under the cap. They are all rorting the system with third party sponsors.

‘Can’t rort the system’: Why Smith trade will be under ‘big scrutiny’; likely price for Eagle — Whispers

‘Can’t rort the system’: Why Smith trade will be under ‘big scrutiny’; likely price for Eagle — Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Mat Mann]

I really struggle to comprehend how the blues, the dogs and the cats don’t have salary cap constraints. How the hell could Carlton possibly fit Houston in. Walsh, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Zac Williams, TDK, Weiteiring and McGovan all recruited or signed on big coin.

Also, it was reported Smith is going to the cats on what was described as not a significant contract. Why would a player heading into their prime, with enormous earning potential accept a modest contract. There’s gotta be illegal fringe benefits involved. Not sure why the AFL haven’t properly investigated Geelong’s deals outside the cap.
Selwood, Dangerfield, Hawkins, just a few that have been ‘happy’ to play for much less than market rate.

Cotton On ambassadorial role

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Signs an ambassador contract with Cotton-on and a year later wants to be traded to Geelong and happy to accept a reduced contract amount

Got to the stage where they don't even try and hide it anymore

 

[Klaatu]

We hadn’t built the foundation to decorate in the draft. The guys we paid up for are probably all gone by the time we are ready to contend and we’re having to draft now and do it upside down. We made our rebuild take 15+ years instead of 5. Everyone involved has been sacked. Gags had even maxed our cap out so had to start selling off guys like Bruce and Hickey to make space.

What year are you referring to 1876, time to stop blaming past mistakes and move on.

 

[The Punter]

We hadn’t built the foundation to decorate in the draft. The guys we paid up for are probably all gone by the time we are ready to contend and we’re having to draft now and do it upside down. We made our rebuild take 15+ years instead of 5. Everyone involved has been sacked. Gags had even maxed our cap out so had to start selling off guys like Bruce and Hickey to make space.

Hill has just re-signed for 3 years. If you don't think we are contending by 2027... I don't share that pessimism.

We sold Bruce so we could play King. Hickey the same with Marshall in the end. Neither played AFL in 2024 BTW.

So we "decorated" going into 2020. Won a final, then 2021 was in large part because we completely stuffed the pre-season. Late return for everyone, but no standards. It caught Coffield up (he thought he had arrived after top 5 B&F 2020) and some others. It was like a repeat of 2006 only we weren't as good as the GT Saints. Largely turned things around for the first half of 2022 (which a lot of people now act like was 2018), then just couldn't get over the line in one or two games, probably because Ratten wasn't the taskmaster we needed.

And we decorated because we identified need and then were presented with opportunity. The "just keep drafting till we come good" experiment has been run: it tends to not work without heavy AFL intervention (Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, North Melbourne). Find someone around this forum who thinks we can rely on heavy AFL intervention if we are terrible for a sustained period. Most think it'll be a plane to Auckland or Darwin. I've sat through 2000 and 2014 and 2018 - it bloody sucks. Since our last bottom four rebuild was completed we've won 12, 11, 5.5 (2018 blip), 9, 11, 10, 11, 13 and 11 games. As I've said many, many times, if you want the "don't decorate" done properly, you need to turn up to every single 10 goal flogging every week so we still have a club at the end of it. Think this year's home game against Brisbane every week. I don't trust most Saints fans to turn up to games through the thin as well as the thick - the evidence doesn't bear that out. So IMO the option open to us is the one chosen. We are getting the draft right now. I think the last few weeks of the season provide cause for optimism: Carlton had everything to play for, threw the kitchen sink at us for four quarters (unlike Geelong the week before) and we still won.

So take pick 7 & 8 (hopefully), make your best choice on two midfielders based on information available at the time, see what other opportunities present (Macrae) and coach 'em up.

 

[St Neil]

Good given what he would cost. But does Carlton have a salary cap?

Carlton are heading for the rocks. Burning more draft capital in the belief that they are close to a Flag.

The early draft picks they have used for blokes like Cerra, Williams, McGovern and Saad. That’s a lot of draft capital.

And the expensive contracts they are locked into: McKay, Curnow, Walsh, Weitering, Cripps, De Koning, Williams, Saad, Cerra. Most of those would be on about $1m a year.

Now Carlton are possibly going to burn another first rounder and salary cap for Houston. Topping-up to pinch a Flag.

It won’t work of course. They aren’t very close. But they may save us from ourselves.

 

[L_W_P]

FB: Webster - ??? - Wilkie
HB: Sinclair - ??? - NWM
C: Hill - Steele - Wood
HF: Owens - King - Wilson
FF: Higgins - ??? - Butler
R: Marshall - Windhager - Philippou

Caminiti - Best 22 but at FF or FB?
Sharman - Surely he stays in the team, even with King back?
Howard - I like him at CHB, not the last line. Does Ross rate him though?
Keeler/Heath - Are they ready for a taste in 2025?

Plenty of mid/flanker options to fill out the bench but our KPP stocks need addressing for sure.

I actually wouldn't be against trading pick 8 (or a Future 1st) to say Sydney for their first two picks to try and grab the Whitlock boys, Jonty Faull or Tom Sims. Assuming Ross is moving Hammer to FB of course.

A future 1st for the Swans pick could see us walk out of the draft with Bo Allen, Murphy Reid and the Whitlocks.

That would be insane.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Twomey reporting Dougal Howard

20

Dougal Howard

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

176.2

3star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.7

4star

T

0.6

1star

MG

171.9

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

133.8

3star

has re-signed with the club.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

FB: Webster - ??? - Wilkie
HB: Sinclair - ??? - NWM
C: Hill - Steele - Wood
HF: Owens - King - Wilson
FF: Higgins - ??? - Butler
R: Marshall - Windhager - Philippou

Caminiti - Best 22 but at FF or FB?
Sharman - Surely he stays in the team, even with King back?
Howard - I like him at CHB, not the last line. Does Ross rate him though?
Keeler/Heath - Are they ready for a taste in 2025?

Plenty of mid/flanker options to fill out the bench but our KPP stocks need addressing for sure.

I actually wouldn't be against trading pick 8 (or a Future 1st) to say Sydney for their first two picks to try and grab the Whitlock boys, Jonty Faull or Tom Sims. Assuming Ross is moving Hammer to FB of course.

A future 1st for the Swans pick could see us walk out of the draft with Bo Allen, Murphy Reid and the Whitlocks.

That would be insane.

That’s probably why we should hold on to Crazy.

 

[snails13]

Twomey reporting Dougal Howard has re-signed with the club.

Twomey also reporting that Pies want P12 for Jon Noble
Yet drop him for last year's GF.
If Noble is worth Pick 12 then we should get Pick 1 for Battle

 

[L_W_P]

4 way trade -

GC: Lose 12, get Noble
Pies: Lose Noble, Get Stringer
Bombers: Lose Stringer, Get Membrey
Saints: Lose Membrey, Get pick 12.

Based on all the 'speculation' from 'experts' this is a fair deal.