List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[Arr0w]

'If there is 3 - 4 million tied up in those 7 players there is something massively wrong with our salary cap structure.

That's an average of over 550K, apart from Williams, i doubt those guys are earning that sort of coin

7 players taking up 25% of our cap?

 

[Soapy V]

'If there is 3 - 4 million tied up in those 7 players there is something massively wrong with our salary cap structure.

Exactly

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Moir is a 3rd tall marking target. He doesn't play as a small forward, he's closer to a Charlie Curnow or Brodie Kemp than he is a small forward.

Williams was coming off an ACL, an injury renowned for taking a few years to get back to ur absolute best. He could still play a range of roles next year even if he ends up settling as a small forward.

Motlop has never convinced me, kicks goals but much like Owies doesn't provide a lot else. Not writing him off yet but I have plenty of doubts. Will wait and see how he comes back next year before making final judgement.

Picks in the top 15 would be what I call 'high 'value' picks in the late 20/30/40s are not what I'd call high value. Nick Watson is what I call investing in a small forward. Pick 5 and instant returns on investment with a decade plus of upside and excitement. Bringing in more players Motlop or Durdin and waiting 3,4,5 years to get some returns is pointless while our core players are in their prime.

Either trade for a ready made talent or invest in a genuine top quality small forward in the draft, otherwise we'll continue having to slog and claw for goals up forward and rely on the individual brilliance of Charlie and Harry every game to get wins.

I appreciate a reasoned response and we can agree to disagree.

You have much more faith than me in Williams up the ground

Everything seen and written about Moir speaks to his agility and forward craft...sure some Charlie like traits, but much more like Martin. If he plays next year it will be as a forward pocket or flank.

As will Fogarty, Motlop, Williams (IMO) and Owies if still around.

With the impacted drafts imminent I think it is far more important to get some midfield and KP talent locked down. Small forwards can be found late or traded for.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

'If there is 3 - 4 million tied up in those 7 players there is something massively wrong with our salary cap structure.

*disclaimer - probably 90% of that goes to Williams

 

[Soapy V]

*disclaimer - probably 90% of that goes to Williams

AFL average is just over $400k. Williams is on about $800k

Whilst I’m estimating it’s a lot of money tied up in a group that haven’t performed and aren’t that young. Not only that several have contracts that go beyond next year

That’s not including Owies and we may well add Konstanty & Rosas.

It’s a lot of money and spots

It’s a concern

 

[BlueJet]

You call Moir irrelevant and then call for us to bring in some good half forwards??? Where are we playing him?

Williams can't play both ends...if he could play across half back we would have him there. He leaks goals as a defender and is reasonably adept as a small forward. The only ROI we will see on our 1.6m dollars over the next two years is as a small forward.

Motlop was excellent last year and couldn't get going this year...do we just write him off and burn another high pick on a small forward? Or do we develop the asset we invested in?

How is a low second round pick not high value? Where does high value picks stop and start? I just can't see how taking a small (or medium) forward with our highest draft pick four years out of five can be viewed as balanced list management, especially when so many great small forwards are taken late.


Neither Motlop or Durdin were taken in 40s as you stated. Both were our first picks taken in draft...that suggests we've placed some high value on filling that role.

It depends on what we're looking for & how we'd like to structure our forward line.
Charlie & H are locks - there are some question marks alongside each of Williams, Kemp, Moir & JSOS regarding role/fit & we appear to be backing in Motlop & Durdin to make it as crumbers.
Throw Fogarty & Elijah into the mix as players who play off a flank and I'd agree that we've invested in non-KPF quite heavily but we do need greater impact from the group.
If you're looking for a quality forward-mid you'd likely need to use an earlier pick (first two rounds), if you're after a more traditional crumber/pressure forward, they can usually be found at any stage of the draft.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

That's an average of over 550K, apart from Williams, i doubt those guys are earning that sort of coin

7 players taking up 25% of our cap?

Cripps, Harry, Charlie, Walsh, Weitering, TDK

There's 6 that probably take up 25%...

Williams is probably on 800k. If the other 6 are on 366k average that's 3 mill... not so far out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Arr0w]

Cripps, Harry, Charlie, Walsh, Weitering, TDK

There's 6 that probably take up 25%...

Williams is probably on 800k. If the other 6 are on 366k average that's 3 mill... not so far out of the realm of possibility.

No way the 7 mentioned, which includes Willams makes up 4 million, 25% of our cap, I call bs

 

[DangerousD]

How does that help Richmond? Would be a late first rounder and does that satisfy Port?

The scenarios mentioned have us also giving our 1st this year but getting a later 1st back.

 

[Soapy V]

Williams is probably on 800k. If the other 6 are on 366k average that's 3 mill... not so far out of the realm of possibility.

Yep. Seems logical to most

 

[DangerousD]

Good clubs don't over rate their players and hold on to them like Essendon. These delisting's are spot on.

Are you sure? Cunners was on the list 9 years, Marchy about 6, we held them for a long time

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Cripps, Harry, Charlie, Walsh, Weitering, TDK

There's 6 that probably take up 25%...

Williams is probably on 800k. If the other 6 are on 366k average that's 3 mill... not so far out of the realm of possibility.

ZW was signed for 6 years for 5.4 million if I remember correctly, averaging 900k a year.

I would think the 6 names you’ve mentioned along with Williams would go extremely close to 6 million if not more for the 7. So probably pretty close to 40% of the cap just on 7 players. Which I would think would be more than any other club at a guess just on 7 players.

As for the other mentioned earlier im not sure as to how much they cost

 

[teagueyubeauty]

They weren't in the 40s

They weren’t high value picks either


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Blue_Fusion]

No way the 7 mentioned, which includes Willams makes up 4 million, 25% of our cap

Not what I said...

I said 3 mill... and given Williams is most likely on 800k, it's not a wild statement.

 

[Soapy V]

ZW was signed for 6 years for 5.4 million if I remember correctly, averaging 900k a year.

I would think the 6 names you’ve mentioned along with Williams would go extremely close to 6 million if not more for the 7. So probably pretty close to 40% of the cap just on 7 players. Which I would think would be more than any other club at a guess just on 7 players.

As for the other mentioned earlier in not sure as to how much they cost

Yep. Seems simple. Regardless it’s a lot for a group of mature small forwards that haven’t performed yet

Would any other club have a structure like this?

 

[Iwishicouldplay4themoney]

ZW was signed for 6 years for 5.4 million if I remember correctly, averaging 900k a year.

I would think the 6 names you’ve mentioned along with Williams would go extremely close to 6 million if not more for the 7. So probably pretty close to 40% of the cap just on 7 players. Which I would think would be more than any other club at a guess just on 7 players.

As for the other mentioned earlier im not sure as to how much they cost

Is that $5.4 million

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Is that $5.4 million

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Is that $5.4 million

Yeah, it was widely reported to be 800-900k per year... not sure how accurate that is, but it wouldn't be far off the mark...

 

[Arr0w]

Not what I said...

I said 3 mill... and given Williams is most likely on 800k, it's not a wild statement.

The range was 3-4 mil, I used the higher mark

Let's say Weitering, Charlie, Harry, Walsh, TDK, Cripps are in the same range as Williams 900K - 6.3mil

The other 6 mentioned, 3.1mil (516K ea)

Leaves 6.5 mil approx for 31 players (210K ea)? I think not

 

[Robbo's my hero]

So we are considering Houston

I rely on signed paperwork so I’m wait and see.

Are we talking about a Judd like draft offering to secure Huston?

How much money do we pay for someone like Huston?

We get a couple of cracks at landing talented younger players if we keep our draft picks. And given the money we would pay them less pressure on the salary cap.

The list management team has a lot to think about. I hope their collective heads are screwed on because we need to think long term and I want to get the age balance of the list correct.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

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Crazy. Hasn't given us one season even close to that worth.

The really strange part of it was, we signed him on that much coin in the hope that he could become a star mid based off a handful of games (particularly the Giants prelim v Pies).

At the time I was really excited about what Williams would bring, but he didn't put the work in to improve his fitness to play full time as a mid... then he's copped a fair share of injuries... now he can't defend so our last move with him is to hope it works as a small forward... there's signs but how many small forwards are on 800-900k?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The range was 3-4 mil, I used the higher mark

Let's say Weitering, Charlie, Harry, Walsh, TDK, Cripps are in the same range as Williams 900K - 6.3mil

The other 6 mentioned, 3.1mil (516K ea)

Leaves 6.5 mil approx for 31 players (210K ea)? I think not

Yeah and I used the lower mark... I specifically stated that in the post you quoted.

4mill is a stretch, 3 not so much... either way the point was, they haven't performed at the level you'd expect from a group of players on that range of coin collectively.

 

[Soapy V]

Crazy. Hasn't given us one season even close to that worth.

The really strange part of it was, we signed him on that much coin in the hope that he could become a star mid based off a handful of games (particularly the Giants prelim v Pies).

At the time I was really excited about what Williams would bring, but he didn't put the work in to improve his fitness to play full time as a mid... then he's copped a fair share of injuries... now he can't defend so our last move with him is to hope it works as a small forward... there's signs but how many small forwards are on 800-900k?

I was excited to get him as well. Sadly hasn’t worked out to near what I expected.

 

[Arr0w]

I rely on signed paperwork so I’m wait and see.

We all do, but clearly we are doing our homework and "considering" him as an option, despite what some have adamantly stated

Are we talking about a Judd like draft offering to secure Huston?

No where near it

How much money do we pay for someone like Huston?

That depends on Houston and both clubs

We get a couple of cracks at landing talented younger players if we keep our draft picks. And given the money we would pay them less pressure on the salary cap.

As long as we manage our cap, we can still bring in young and established talent

The list management team has a lot to think about. I hope their collective heads are screwed on because we need to think long term and I want to get the age balance of the list correct.

Trading for players shouldn't disrupt tge balance of our list

If we can land an elite player, great, otherwise we continue to focus elsewhere

 

[Robbo's my hero]

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What’s the source of this screenshot?