List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Viva la Mattner]

You have to be kidding....who else do we have to match the monster 200cm KPD's, Murray can only handle one of them...Josh Worrell IS NOT a lockdown KPD and besides that we'd mostly lose his intercepting talents and ability to get off his player to assist Murray and Butts or whoever replaces Butts in your "dreams" ...Borlase and Burgess won't be able to handle the 200cm+ forwards that are becoming an AFL thing.

Petty

We all now they’ll be after him again , not for the rumoured cost he was last year though

 

[Mutineer]

Petty

We all now they’ll be after him again , not for the rumoured cost he was last year though

If they still chase Petty with a year to run on his contract they have rocks in their head, not to mention he's hasn't played anything like decent AFL since his foot issues.

 

[Danger in Texas]

You have to be kidding....who else do we have to match the monster 200cm KPD's, Murray can only handle one of them...Josh Worrell IS NOT a lockdown KPD and besides that we'd mostly lose his intercepting talents and ability to get off his player to assist Murray and Butts or whoever replaces Butts in your "dreams" ...Borlase and Burgess won't be able to handle the 200cm+ forwards that are becoming an AFL thing.

I will say I was down on Butts for a while, but he has looked to be in his best form this year since his debut season

Still would like a KPD that provides more offensive drive, which isn’t really Murray or Butts, but Worrell mostly compensates for that when he’s playing

 

[Crow till I die]

If they still chase Petty with a year to run on his contract they have rocks in their head, not to mention he's hasn't played anything like decent AFL since his foot issues.

That is called absolute desperation.

I can just imagine the chatter behind closed doors....' gees, we have had a crack again at the free agents and none want to come. We said we were in the market to get mature players in and Petty is still there, lets offer up a top 5 pick to make it happen and maybe we will get a 2nd rounder back, he is under contract after all and we can sell it to the supporters that we succeeded in getting in a big name player'

Then I will put a pause on my membership until the club decide to get serious as a going concern again.

 

[Danger in Texas]

That is called absolute desperation.

I can just imagine the chatter behind closed doors....' gees, we have had a crack again at the free agents and none want to come. We said we were in the market to get mature players in and Petty is still there, lets offer up a top 5 pick to make it happen and maybe we will get a 2nd rounder back, he is under contract after all and we can sell it to the supporters that we succeeded in getting in a big name player'

Then I will put a pause on my membership until the club decide to get serious as a going concern again.

Man I hope the club officials read the room on that one

We’d all like more proven talent, but most of all we want our own JHF/Reid/Daicos/Wardlaw

 

[WeeBlake]

If they still chase Petty with a year to run on his contract they have rocks in their head, not to mention he's hasn't played anything like decent AFL since his foot issues.

He had a blinder vs Cats, but yeah, otherwise not much

 

[WeeBlake]

You have to be kidding....who else do we have to match the monster 200cm KPD's, Murray can only handle one of them...Josh Worrell IS NOT a lockdown KPD and besides that we'd mostly lose his intercepting talents and ability to get off his player to assist Murray and Butts or whoever replaces Butts in your "dreams" ...Borlase and Burgess won't be able to handle the 200cm+ forwards that are becoming an AFL thing.

Show me Sydney’s list of giant defenders

 

[BRL121]

I will say I was down on Butts for a while, but he has looked to be in his best form this year since his debut season

Still would like a KPD that provides more offensive drive, which isn’t really Murray or Butts, but Worrell mostly compensates for that when he’s playing

Too much information.

 

[Mutineer]

Show me Sydney’s list of giant defenders

You have to play more teams than Sydney on the way to Grand Final...

Sydney last played in a Grand Final in 2012.

 

[Danger in Texas]

You have to play more teams than Sydney on the way to Grand Final...

Sydney last played in a Grand Final in 2012.

Won a granny, you mean?

 

[Mutineer]

Won a granny, you mean?

Played in or won little difference, how many of their current defenders played in 2012?

Edit : 2022

 

[Danger in Texas]

Played in or won little difference, how many of their current defenders played in 2012?

They played in one in 2022, that’s a decade’s difference, pretty sizeable. Not to mention the two others after 2012

I’m not disagreeing with what your argument is FWIW, a sizeable KPD is good to have, just don’t see how that point is really relevant

 

[Mutineer]

They played in one in 2022, that’s a decade’s difference, pretty sizeable. Not to mention the two others after 2012

I’m not disagreeing with what your argument is FWIW, a sizeable KPD is good to have, just don’t see how that point is really relevant

Yeah I edited that got flogged by Geelong.

 

[Mutineer]

And let's face it they now have a dominant ruck and midfield with Warner and Gulden coming on and Heeney moving in there. It ain't their defence

 

[119others]

I reckon we only have 8 genuine best 22 players I'd trust that we can begin to build a future contending team around at the moment.

Defenders: Worrell (23yo/26g), Nick Murray (23yo/47g), Michalanney (20yo/36g)
Forwards: Rankine (24yo/79g), Thilthorpe (21yo/46g), Fogarty (24yo/93g)
Midfielders: Dawson (27yo/123g), Soligo (21yo/51g)

I'm not fully convinced yet, but I suspect we can add the following 3 to the list above soon:

Defenders: Nankervis (21yo/15g)
Forwards: Rachele (21yo/48g), Pedlar (22yo/30g) (both of these also have mid capabilities)

Have shown glimpses, but not enough to have confidence yet:

Defenders: Keane (24yo/23g), Hamill (23yo/44g), Curtin (19yo/2g)
Forwards: Cook (22yo/21g)
Midfielders: Dowling (19yo/2g), Taylor (21yo/0g)

Too early to tell:

Forwards: Gallagher (23yo), Toby Murray (20yo)
Defenders: Bond (19yo), Ryan (19yo)
Midfielders: Edwards (19yo)

Solid contributors we'd likely look to upgrade along the way OR are coming to the end of their career

Defenders: Jones (24yo/90g), Hinge (25yo/57g), Butts (24yo/71g), Milera (26yo/99g), Borlase (21yo/12g)
Forwards: Keays (27yo/127g), Walker (34yo/271g), Himmelberg (26yo/45g), Murphy (25yo/106g)
Midfielders: Laird (30yo/238g), Crouch (29yo/154g), Schoenberg (23yo/61g), Berry (22yo, 41g)
Rucks: O'Brien (28yo/112g), Strachan (28yo/7g)

Just make the call and move on:

Defenders: Parnell (22yo/17g), Smith (32yo/259g)
Forwards: Burgess (28yo/43g), Gollant (22yo/15g), McHenry (23yo/70g)
Midfielders: Sholl (24yo/65g)

Retired: Sloane (34yo/255g)

--------------------

Go back to the draft board with as many high picks as possible. This years pick 4/5 must be a midfielder who can hopefully play next year.

We need to bring in a first choice ruckman to replace O'Brien - English or Moyle? English could work 60/40 with Thilthorpe potentially and free agency appealing.

I'd target Jack Hayes to be a back up key forward with Burgess/Gollant marked and Himmelberg probably moving on. Welsh F/S handy. Keep Walker.

Good analysis and agree overall. Probably would add to your 8+ 3 the following - Hinge, Butts and Milera to the backline as average-good AFL quality players. Not everyone can be an A grade star. Add 2-3 of last years crop (I think Curtin and Ryan are both likely) that gets us to 8 + 3 + 3 + 2 = 16. Still a number of holes to fill over the next couple of drafts

 

[Redline]

Across the next two years we need to get rid of all these players

2024
Sloane (retired)
Smith (force retired)
Murphy (delisted, contract paid out)
McHenry (delisted)
Gollant (delisted)
Himmelberg (FA)
Bond (delisted)
Burgess (delisted)
O'Brien (traded)
Parnell (delisted)

2025
Strachan (delisted)
Berry (one year contract then delisted)
Borlase (one year contract then delisted)
Laird (retired early or delisted with contract paid out or traded)
Walker (retired on his terms)
Jones (depth only then traded under contract or delisted and paid out)

Unless he wants out as per the rumour, I'd keep O'Brien or unless we have a ready made replacement to bring in. You end up paying way overs for a Ruckman.

Walker should retire.

Laird should be traded. We would have cap space to even pay a portion of his salary if it meant a better pick in return. No one would want him but Crouch should on the trade table.

 

[Redline]

Across the next two years we need to get rid of all these players

2024
Sloane (retired)
Smith (force retired)
Murphy (delisted, contract paid out)
McHenry (delisted)
Gollant (delisted)
Himmelberg (FA)
Bond (delisted)
Burgess (delisted)
O'Brien (traded)
Parnell (delisted)

2025
Strachan (delisted)
Berry (one year contract then delisted)
Borlase (one year contract then delisted)
Laird (retired early or delisted with contract paid out or traded)
Walker (retired on his terms)
Jones (depth only then traded under contract or delisted and paid out)

Unless he wants out as per the rumour, I'd keep O'Brien unless we have a ready made replacement.

Walker should retire.

Laird should be traded. We would have cap space to even pay a portion of his salary if it meant a better pick in return. No one would want him but Crouch should on the trade table.

 

[AFC979810]

I would like an honest answer from the club why Brodie Grundy and Elijah Hollands aren't currently Crows players. I am sure there was pull from Sydney & Carlton, but I would like to know how hard we tried to get these 2, if we tried at all.

Thats the baffling one.

SA Boy - Former top 10 pick that was played out of position and starved for chances at Gold Coast.

Carlton gave up pick 26 and a future 3rd but got back pick 28 and a future 4th rounder - effectively peanuts.

Grundy - I understand. Was coming off too poor seasons (22/23) and was 29 years old with a contract that runs until 2027 (when he will be 33). Grundy needs to be a full time #1 ruck man to be successful and we already had a 27 year old full time Ruckman that was one of the highest 100 paid players in the AFL. From a list perspective it was a little harder to juggle IMO.

 

[AFC979810]

Laird should be traded. We would have cap space to even pay a portion of his salary if it meant a better pick in return. No one would want him but Crouch should on the trade table.

If we keep Nicks - I agree.

If we get rid of Nicks then I think he is worth keeping and hopefully the new coach has a brain and can utilize him.

 

[huludicidal]

I think it's a given a guy like McHenry will be retained, even if it's a delisting and drafting back onto the rookie list for a year. Borlase probably gets upgraded from the rookie list to swap spots, which is fair enough.

I'd say the only guarantees of guys getting moved on at this point are Sloane and Parnell and everyone else has a chance to stay depending on who we can bring in.

There are several more guarantees other than just Sloane and Parnell.

Bond is 100% gone. It’s Ronin O’Connor all over again. Stamped. Gone. Would have house on it.

Gollant is 100% gone. We are selecting Borlase as a forward over him. That’s papers stamped stuff. And no, rightly or wrongly we’re never trying him on a wing or at half back at AFL level. Nicks is too busy fawning over Chayce Jones and Lachie Sholl highlights from the West Coast demolition job to even consider such things.

Himmelberg is 100% leaving as a FA to GWS. We know this. Papers were stamped upon the Toby Murray signing. Life on it.


Nothing else is certain (well it’s a certainty that Brayden Cook will be re-signed, maybe even in the next 7 days for a happy sunshine bye week news story if we’re being serious). But those are all things you can take to the bank.


The main questions are:

1) Is the Smith contract trigger actually a real thing? Has he actually hit the trigger yet, or did we drop him 1-5 games short of it? Will he retire? Will he ever be selected again? Will we offer him a 1 year “good bloke” deal? Will the players vote him into the leadership group again while he plays all of 2025 in the SANFL, outlining the utter nonsense of leadership groups containing cooked players who have no business playing AFL football anymore?

2) Will Tex retire? Does he have the desire to play on? Is his body cooked? Will he be offered a deal at all?

3) Will we inexplicably offer McHenry a 1 year contract? Maybe re-draft as a rookie after delisting Hamill/Borlase style? Maybe cut ties altogether? Would some misguided organisation give up pick 60 for him in a trade or do they actually watch film?

4) Will we try to cash in on Sholl’s “good form”? Would anyone offer Pick 35ish? Or will we offer him a 2 year deal to stay? Sholl really seems like a “2 year deal or trade” situation to me.

5) Will we offer Berry a new deal? Seems virtually inevitable that he’ll be retained as depth to me, but maybe another club thinks they can utilise him better and he requests a trade? His form drop since 2022 has been startling for a player whose form trajectory should be going the opposite way. I can’t see Berry getting any more than a 1 year deal from us, but I suppose there’s a universe where we might offer him two. He’s one of the best tacklers I’ve ever seen in my life, but the rest of his game absolutely stinks. Can a new coach turn Berry into an elite tagger? Such a strange one.

6) Borlase and Hamill fall into a very similar boat to one another. Both rookie list players after being delisted. Both having far better 2024s than really anyone expected. Do both get delisted again? Is one promoted to the senior list? Is one or both re-rookied after another delisting?

7) is Footywire correct, and is Chris Burgess actually out of contract at the end of this year? If so, do we even bother persisting? Personally I don’t believe that we brought him here on a 1 year deal and footywire seems to mess up the contract status of a lot of traded players in their first year at the new club (Soldo and Zerk-Thatcher are supposedly out of contract this year too, which is clearly nonsense).

8) Do we trade any players contracted for 2025? O’Brien to a Vic club once we secure the services of a ruckman with motor skills? Does Rachele sensationally request a trade (just imagine this lol)? Keane to the Pies? Would anyone want Schoenberg (as I typed this, I knew the answer was no)? Jordon Butts to be offered as a trade piece to improve our midfield if Keane is sticking around? Would anyone want Chayce in a trade, and would he want to leave? Send a cooked Laird to North Melbourne to teach them his winning ways?



The offseason is far more interesting than the real season.

 

[Jars458]

Isn’t she the head of football?
Just like our head of football has no football club experience, has she?

Do many people who work for her have that experience?

 

[Mostyn]

Trades do happen, and it's more than possible that some of the trades you suggested could/will actually happen. However, there's not a snowball's chance in Hell that more than 30% of them will happen, let alone all of them.

The issue here is not the trades you've suggested, all of which have basis in rumour. It's the sheer number of trades you've proposed, with the implication that we could/should be expecting all (or at least most) of them to get done. That's just not going to happen.

You need to put down the playstation controller, and come back to reality, where few teams do more than 2-3 trades each year (if that).

How many trades did Collingwood do when they were rebuilding? Richmond, in getting two top level mids? Geelong?

Port did FAR fewer than this the year they got Rozee.

There was ONE major trade in there, for Luko. Other than that, it was some pick shuffles and a couple of free agent signings.

This is the MINIMUM we should expect in the off season. Of course there could be different things - I'm not expecting Luko at all, I'm just pricing that up if he wants to leave - but we should be trading for players and acquiring via free agency this off season.

You guys, unsurprisingly, are stuck two decades ago when clubs barely traded. Clubs doing three or four transactions in an off season isn't news anymore, and clubs doing a range of pick shuffles isn't either.

 

[FR0GGY]

Do many people who work for her have that experience?

Not sure, but they aren’t the head of football.

 

[Mostyn]

You need to put down the playstation controller, and come back to reality, where few teams do more than 2-3 trades each year (if that).

What did Sydney do last year, Vader?

And how does that compare to the amount that I proposed?

 

[Mostyn]

I just think the club pulling off that many changes in total is so very very unlikely. Practically speaking it won't happen.

Two free agents and a trade?

Sure, one free agent or even none is more likely. But with the amount of salary cap room we have, that needs to be considered a disastrous failure.

Luko is unlikely, but that is the only genuine trade I proposed (other than accepting a dumped Caleb Daniel, which is definitely getting offered to us).