2024 McClelland Trophy

[Teen Wolf]

What's VFL got to do with anything? Do Brisbane have a VFLW side?

40 years of historical precedence would suggest recognising reserves teams is not entirely incompatible with the McClelland Trophy concept.

The smarter question, which has unsurprisingly eluded you, is what do finals have to do with an award for h&a performance? Answer: Nothing!

 

[Gavin Excell]

The premiership while nice is just a stepping stone to what we as fans all want

The McLelland

 

[hawkman]

The premiership while nice is just a stepping stone to what we as fans all want

The McLelland

View attachment 2180417

Just jealously because Geelong didn't win it

 

[Gavin Excell]

Just jealously because Geelong didn't win it

I was looking at the honour role and we've won more of them than flags, so take that Hawkman!

 

[Teen Wolf]

By the way, the trophy design has been updated:

 

[cryptor]

I was looking at the honour role and we've won more of them than flags, so take that Hawkman!

Good to see you’re not including those VFA flags in this count.

 

[the big lebowski]

Surely this award is amended to be based on post finals ladder position.

Imagine Brisbane winning 2 flags and not getting it.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

40 years of historical precedence would suggest recognising reserves teams is not entirely incompatible with the McClelland Trophy concept.

The smarter question, which has unsurprisingly eluded you, is what do finals have to do with an award for h&a performance? Answer: Nothing!

If you were really asking smart questions then what do aflwomen have to do with an award historically precedented for male team performance? If we can add women teams performance to the criteria then we sure can add finals performance as well. So it actually means something significant. Award for overall champion club in 2024. Awarded to the Brisbane Lions

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

By the way, the trophy design has been updated:

Notice how usually award announcers would mention what the award represents/labels the recipient as they announce it. Not for this one. And everyone in that room would be thinking, this award is a joke.

 

[cryptor]

If you were really asking smart questions then what do aflwomen have to do with an award historically precedented for male team performance? If we can add women teams performance to the criteria then we sure can add finals performance as well. So it actually means something significant. Award for overall champion club in 2024. Awarded to the Brisbane Lions

By that logic there's also a historic precedent for it to not include non-Victorian clubs.

 

[Teen Wolf]

If you were really asking smart questions then what do aflwomen have to do with an award historically precedented for male team performance?

Pretty obvious it was conceived as a club award for H&A performance. Therefore necessarily excluding finals performance, and by no means necessarily excluding women's teams.

If we can add women teams performance to the criteria then we sure can add finals performance as well.

That would just mean North Melbourne should have got the $1m this year, on account of winning two flags across seniors and reserves.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

By that logic there's also a historic precedent for it to not include non-Victorian clubs.

You are not making sense in the context of my argument. Im not saying women shouldn’t be included. I’m saying there is nothing wrong with further change to the award criteria, as has already been the case.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

That would just mean North Melbourne should have got the $1m this year, on account of winning two flags across seniors and reserves.

Get real. The Roos AFL mens kinda ruins that ludicrous suggestion Lions won one premiership, one runner up and a prelim final. Clearly the champion club.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Get real. The Roos AFL mens kinda ruins that ludicrous suggestion

Then don't suggest it. We'll just stick with the H&A season, hence the million goes to Hawthorn.

 

[cryptor]

You are not making sense in the context of my argument. Im not saying women shouldn’t be included. I’m saying there is nothing wrong with further change to the award criteria, as has already been the case.

And I’m not saying non-Victorian clubs shouldn’t be included. It was just to highlight the illogical nature of your example.

The award has always been about club performance across the H&A. It has always included other teams (ie. reserves, U19s, AFLW) that have direct association with the clubs.

This was only ever changed when clubs no longer had those teams or those teams weren’t competing in the same league. For example, the national expansion of the VFL to AFL meant reserve teams played in different state leagues. And not every club having an AFLW team until the last few years.

 

[Sixpence]

You are not making sense in the context of my argument. Im not saying women shouldn’t be included. I’m saying there is nothing wrong with further change to the award criteria, as has already been the case.

The only previous changes have been the types of competition included, from VFL/Reserves to AFLW. The premise remained the same.

You are asking for the premise to change, simply because you didn't win it.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

The only previous changes have been the types of competition included, from VFL/Reserves to AFLW. The premise remained the same.

You are asking for the premise to change, simply because you didn't win it.

The award is called the McClelland trophy. That has not changed.

A club wins the award. That has not changed.

The award is determined by performance. That has not changed.

The club performance criteria that decides the award has. AFLW performance instead of VFLMens performance is a change to the award criteria. Therefore part of the premise HAS changed.

The idea of including finals performance in overall performance would just be another change to the criteria.

Original McClelland trophy award. Awarded to the football club that has the best combined home and away performance across VFL and AFL men’s teams.

McClelland trophy current: Awarded to the football club that has the best combined home and away performance across AFLW and AFL competitions

Future: Awarded to the football club that has the best combined performance (including home and away+finals) across AFLW and AFL competitions.

The key premise would not change- Awarded to the football club that has the best combined performance across select competitions.

That is the key premise, and it fails to deliver. Making it pointless and a joke for an elite professional sport!

 

[Demon in Hell]

Are you Brisbane people still whinging.

Just give it up.

 

[Sixpence]

The award is called the McClelland trophy. That has not changed.

A club wins the award. That has not changed.

The award is determined by performance. That has not changed.

The club performance criteria that decides the award has. AFLW performance instead of VFLMens performance is a change to the award criteria. Therefore part of the premise HAS changed.

The idea of including finals performance in overall performance would just be another change to the criteria.

Original McClelland trophy award. Awarded to the football club that has the best combined home and away performance across VFL and AFL men’s teams.

McClelland trophy current: Awarded to the football club that has the best combined home and away performance across AFLW and AFL competitions

Future: Awarded to the football club that has the best combined performance (including home and away+finals) across AFLW and AFL competitions.

The key premise would not change- Awarded to the football club that has the best combined performance across select competitions.

That is the key premise, and it fails to deliver. Making it pointless and a joke for an elite professional sport!

No, it's not and has never been the best performance across competitions. The key premise is a Club's performance across the Home and Away season for respective competitions. That has not changed at all. All they have done is swap one competition for another. That is not a change to the key premise.

You keep dropping the H&A part and adding in Finals. That makes is a completely different criteria.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Original McClelland trophy award. Awarded to the football club that has the best combined home and away performance across VFL and AFL men’s teams.

Incorrect.

It was for H&A performance by VFL clubs across all the competitions administered by the controlling body, including under 19s.

No fundamental change to the award's original premise has been made to include AFLW, regardless of what historically illiterate fools say.

 

[Philhawk]

Congratulations to North for your well earned 2nd place finish in the Mclelland.

Better luck next year, Lions.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

Incorrect.

It was for H&A performance by VFL clubs across all the competitions administered by the controlling body, including under 19s.

No fundamental change to the award's original premise has been made to include AFLW, regardless of what historically illiterate fools say.

Whatever the original historical accuracy, it’s the same point I’m trying to make. The criteria that decides the winner of the McClelland has already changed.

Some more recent history for you:
Minor premier Geelong held the trophy after finishing on top of the ladder in 2022. If the current formula was applied to 2022's results, Melbourne would have been awarded the trophy.

See, it’s already changed.

Since you pride yourself on your historical accuracy on the subject. Why was the award put in place? What is its purpose? That will tell us the key point of it. And why wouldn’t they haven decided to include finals performance in the criteria?

 

[Teen Wolf]

Whatever the original historical accuracy it’s the same point I’m trying to make. criteria that decides the winner of the McClelland has already changed.

Since you pride yourself on your historical accuracy on the subject. Why was the award put in place? What is its purpose? That will tell us the key premise. And why wouldn’t they haven decided to include finals performance in the criteria?

I just told you: It was for H&A performance by VFL clubs across all the competitions administered by the controlling body.

So, once again, your point is wrong. The premise today is the same as it was back in 1951.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

Bet you bottom dollar the award was intended to determine the champion club. That is the real premise. At the time they thought tracking home and away would be the best way to determine this. But just like a lot of things done in the 1950s, things weren’t done as well as they are now, it was poorly executed in a semi professional era. Things change and get improved all the time.

The award has already changed. It has been a minor premiership award and it has been a club championship award. These are two different awards with two different formats.

Minor premier Geelong held the trophy after finishing on top of the ladder in 2022. If the current formula was applied to 2022's results, Melbourne would have been awarded the trophy. The format has changed. The award has changed

Draft positions and fixturing tiers are determined by a post finals ladder, and so should the McClelland.

 

[cryptor]

Bet you bottom dollar the award was intended to determine the champion club.

It does. Better luck next year I suppose!