Play Nice 2024 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings and other Industry thread

[The_Wookie]

Thursday Night #NRL
#NRLRoostersPanthers
Crowd: 25,898 at Allianz Stadium

Thursday Night NRL Live
Nine Network
Reach 1.314m (Thu N season ave 1.408m)
Average: 569,000 (Thu N season ave 583k)

This is the lowest Thursday night reach for the season, but the second lowest average behind round 1 (505k).
LAst years Pre-Easter Thursday rated 512k on Nine (pre VOZ) and attracted 16,323 to Aami Park for Storm/Roosters.

Last yearthese two sides met in R11 (Nine: 555,000, 20,255 at Bluebet) and then again in R15 (Fox exc, 23,610 at Allianz)

Data: VOZ and http://NRL.com

 

[The_Wookie]

NRL Membership	2024	2023
Brisbane	53,672	40,207
Canberra	19,929	24,060
Canterbury		22,000
Cronulla	16,000	14,384
Dolphins		30,000
Gold Coast		13,124
Manly		16,332
Melbourne	20,000	32,000
Newcastle	28,665	19,922
New Zealand
North Queensland	17,893	20,513
Parramatta		35,015
Penrith		21,525
South Sydney	29,206	31,997
St George	12,606	21,124
Sydney	19,188	20,072
Wests Tigers	8,050	20,003
Total	225,209	382,278

 

[sprucemoooose]

But at the same time, for all the noise about NRL and America as a strategy, about getting on Fox Sports 1 in prime time when they were over there ... and yet, less than a month on, the AFL as a control group comparison, is getting FS1 access and equivalent FS2 access? The NRL deal didn't even insist on year-long FS1 access, or a second game on either of FS1 or 2, or whatever?

It's basically been a continuation of previous years coverage. AFL has recieved slightly better coverage than the NRL on FS1/2 for a long time now. Of course as you alluded to its pretty irrelevant either way due to the time zone difference and the abysmal reach of FS2.

Occasionally FS2 will have an early sat/sun afternoon AFL game at a somewhat reasonable hour on the west coast (830pm LA time/1130pm NY time).

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It's basically been a continuation of previous years coverage. AFL has recieved slightly better coverage than the NRL on FS1/2 for a long time now. Of course as you alluded to its pretty irrelevant either way due to the time zone difference and the abysmal reach of FS2.

Occasionally FS2 will have an early sat/sun afternoon AFL game at a somewhat reasonable hour on the west coast (830pm LA time/1130pm NY time).

Moreso for all the show and dance of the Vegas game by the NRL, the fact it was being broadcast on FS1, the fact that it could potentially introduce new people to the game in America ... like you said, the actual rest-of-the-season broadcast coverage on FS1/FS2 (that being slightly worse than the AFL's) hasn't change.

There's some off-chance that some random American who was exposed to the game in Vegas, out of curiosity, searches when the game will be on FS1 this week. They look it up, zero games, they lose interest they might have had as opposed to recording their game on their TIVO or whatever.

Surely the self-patting on the back for getting the two Vegas games on FS1 should have also included a commitment to get better FS1 coverage, in general even if games are in the middle of the night, for the rest of the season? Again, it's pretty irrelevant, but it's stil worth noting.

 

[sprucemoooose]

Moreso for all the show and dance of the Vegas game by the NRL, the fact it was being broadcast on FS1, the fact that it could potentially introduce new people to the game in America ... like you said, the actual rest-of-the-season broadcast coverage on FS1/FS2 (that being slightly worse than the AFL's) hasn't change.

There's some off-chance that some random American who was exposed to the game in Vegas, out of curiosity, searches when the game will be on FS1 this week. They look it up, zero games, they lose interest they might have had as opposed to recording their game on their TIVO or whatever.

Surely the self-patting on the back for getting the two Vegas games on FS1 should have also included a commitment to get better FS1 coverage, in general even if games are in the middle of the night, for the rest of the season? Again, it's pretty irrelevant, but it's stil worth noting.

Even if NRL coverage was better on FS1 the time of the year these games are on will kill any momentum they do generate.

The games take place and then very soon after March Madness is ramping up, with the women's tournament growing at a rapid rate alongside the huge men's tournament. After that baseball starts again and the NBA/NHL are entering the playoffs. How do you keep a potential American fan interested with all that happening with games taking place in the middle of the night?

It's really simplistic to assume that you can have a few games in the US, get a few media stories written and that will return an ongoing audience of any volume. It speaks to the lack of understanding of the local market and just assuming your product is an easy sell because the lack of helmets and pads.

 

[Gizmo]

 

[weewilly]

Let the fools led by media tart V'Landy's waste the NRL's time and money in the US while the AFL concentrates on building our game at home!

 

[The_Wookie]

Weekend Attendance Update

#AFL
Dees/Lions 43,098 at the MCG
Dogs/Bombres 50,144 at Marvel Stadium
Giants/Saints 12,448 at Manuka Oval
Blues/Crows 46,283 at Marvel Stadium
Suns/Hawks 13,900 at People First Stadium
Power/Dockers 35,658 at Adelaide Oval

#ALM
AdUnited/Bulls 12,562 at Coopers Stadium
Phoenix/Victory 6,360 at Sky Stadium
SFC/Wanderers 26,155 at Allianz Stadium
Roar/Jets 7,486 at Suncorp Stadium
WUnited/Mariners 3,043 at RFF Tarneit

#ALW
WUnited/Jets 3,370 at RFF Tarneit

#NRL
Knights/Roosters 21,940 at McDonald Jones
Storm/Bulldogs 16,065 at Aami Park
Broncos/Dolphins 46,224 at Suncorp Stadium
Warriors/SEagles 23,076 at Go Media Stadium
Eels/Cowboys 14,433 at Commbank Stadium
Rabbitohs/Sharks at Accor Stadium

 

[Sammoll]

Weekend Attendance Update

#AFL
Dees/Lions 43,098 at the MCG
Dogs/Bombres 50,144 at Marvel Stadium
Giants/Saints 12,448 at Manuka Oval
Blues/Crows 46,283 at Marvel Stadium
Suns/Hawks 13,900 at People First Stadium
Power/Dockers 35,658 at Adelaide Oval

#ALM
AdUnited/Bulls 12,562 at Coopers Stadium
Phoenix/Victory 6,360 at Sky Stadium
SFC/Wanderers 26,155 at Allianz Stadium
Roar/Jets 7,486 at Suncorp Stadium
WUnited/Mariners 3,043 at RFF Tarneit

#ALW
WUnited/Jets 3,370 at RFF Tarneit

#NRL
Knights/Roosters 21,940 at McDonald Jones
Storm/Bulldogs 16,065 at Aami Park
Broncos/Dolphins 46,224 at Suncorp Stadium
Warriors/SEagles 23,076 at Go Media Stadium
Eels/Cowboys 14,433 at Commbank Stadium
Rabbitohs/Sharks at Accor Stadium

Looks like Giants got more at Manuka than Raiders did in their game today which is interesting.

 

[BobbyMorri]

I feel this needs a Wookie run-through.

I assume there is going to be an * here somewhere regarding double headers

 

[Teen Wolf]

At least 90,325 comes from 27 double-headers with men's matches. There may be some I missed.

285,980 is the correct total attendance figure for the 2023 AFLW season, btw.

 

[Rob]

Haha the AFL should play AFLW games after every AFL final this year....that record would get blitzed in the first 3 weeks!

 

[The_Wookie]

I feel this needs a Wookie run-through.

I assume there is going to be an * here somewhere regarding double headers

 

[Cmarsh]

NRLW also use the same tactic of doing double headers beside the mens games to inflate their crowds.

 

[BobbyMorri]

NRLW also use the same tactic of doing double headers beside the mens games to inflate their crowds.

It also works.

It is something the AFL should look into, if the seasons ever overlap in significant ways. It would save money, increase attendance for AFLW matches and give something for the early punters to watch.

I was going to say that it works a lot easier in soccer and rugby as well, as they have a shorter game length. And that is sort of true. But people in country Footy can watch 3 matches (Unders, Reserves and Seniors) in a single day. So that really shouldn't limit the AFL/AFLW double header if they want it to happen.

 

[Teen Wolf]

It also works.

It is something the AFL should look into, if the seasons ever overlap in significant ways. It would save money, increase attendance for AFLW matches and give something for the early punters to watch.

I was going to say that it works a lot easier in soccer and rugby as well, as they have a shorter game length. And that is sort of true. But people in country Footy can watch 3 matches (Unders, Reserves and Seniors) in a single day. So that really shouldn't limit the AFL/AFLW double header if they want it to happen.

Curtain-raisers are played in front of subpar women's crowds for 75% of their duration. Counting the people who file in for the dying stages of a match sounds like a "reach" attendance figure to me... and we all know reach is bad!

That aside, if it actually saved a lot of money, the amount of A-League women's matches played as double headers with men's matches would be much higher than 20%.

AFL clubs make more money by keeping women's matchdays separate. For example, they get to keep 100% of ticket and membership revenue which adds up to about $350k per club each year. Furthermore, as pointed out repeatedly for 5+ years now, TV ratings for AFLW are much lower when it overlaps with the men's season.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Curtain-raisers are played in front of subpar women's crowds for 75% of their duration. Counting the people who file in for the dying stages of a match sounds like a "reach" attendance figure to me... and we all know reach is bad!

That aside, if it actually saved a lot of money, the amount of A-League women's matches played as double headers with men's matches would be much higher than 20%.

AFL clubs make more money by keeping women's matchdays separate. For example, they get to keep 100% of ticket and membership revenue which adds up to about $350k per club each year. Furthermore, as pointed out repeatedly for 5+ years now, TV ratings for AFLW are much lower when it overlaps with the men's season.

I think the amount of people who would be willing to watch a curtain raiser would be considerable. But your point on reach is fair.

I can only talk about one doubleheader A-League match, which was staged in Hobart this year. I reckon a half to a third of all people were in by half-time of the girls match.

I don't think the match-day revenues for AFLW would be a significant factor in this. It is minimal for clubs earning 40 Mil a year(give or take)

TV ratings, yeah, that is a fair point. TV companies would like not having to set up on random grounds all the time and being able to use the same equipment for both matches. But yeah, ratings would be a lot worse.

 

[Rob]

It also works.

It is something the AFL should look into, if the seasons ever overlap in significant ways. It would save money, increase attendance for AFLW matches and give something for the early punters to watch.

I was going to say that it works a lot easier in soccer and rugby as well, as they have a shorter game length. And that is sort of true. But people in country Footy can watch 3 matches (Unders, Reserves and Seniors) in a single day. So that really shouldn't limit the AFL/AFLW double header if they want it to happen.

What do you mean "works"? Works how? It doesn't really save money because you need to open the venue earlier. And does it increase popularity? Arguable.

All it does is artificially boost crowds with the numbers of people that don't even watch most of the game. How is that a success?

 

[Teen Wolf]

I think the amount of people who would be willing to watch a curtain raiser would be considerable. But your point on reach is fair.

It's not as if there haven't been AFLW curtain-raisers to men's matches in the past, and in every case the pre-3QT turnout has always been far from considerable.

I don't think the match-day revenues for AFLW would be a significant factor in this. It is minimal for clubs earning 40 Mil a year(give or take)

Using that logic: The AFL brought in a billion dollars last year and spent $25m on non-TPP AFLW costs, so saving a couple million by playing double-headers isn't a significant factor either.

In reality, the reason the AFL last year decided to incentivise clubs by letting them have 100% of women's membership and ticket sales (which have grown by $6.5m in the space of ~5 years) is because they want that stream to grow into something more significant. Not possible if you can just attend games with your previously purchased men's ticket.

These notions about curtain-raisers have been debunked again and again locally and worldwide via cricket, the Matildas, etc. Unless the money is split 50/50 a la tennis grand slams, women's sport is always going to be held back when it's packaged with men's.

 

[BobbyMorri]

It's not as if there haven't been AFLW curtain-raisers to men's matches in the past, and in every case the pre-3QT turnout has always been far from considerable.


Using that logic: The AFL brought in a billion dollars last year and spent $25m on non-TPP AFLW costs, so saving a couple million by playing double-headers isn't a significant factor either.

In reality, the reason the AFL last year decided to incentivise clubs by letting them have 100% of women's membership and ticket sales (which have grown by $6.5m in the space of ~5 years) is because they want that stream to grow into something more significant. Not possible if you can just attend games with your previously purchased men's ticket.

These notions about curtain-raisers have been debunked again and again locally and worldwide via cricket, the Matildas, etc. Unless the money is split 50/50 a la tennis grand slams, women's sport is always going to be held back when it's packaged with men's.

obviously, you care a lot for the women's game and AFLW.

It is just my opinion looking far away. Not an expert on AFLW at all. I do think the season needs to be extended and start earlier. I also think the AFL match day experience lacks the country footy feel of supporting all the teams in your club. I miss reserves footy, even though it was before my time.

Others have other reasons to think double headers may work

The change to the AFLW season that HAS to happen

GEORGIE PARKER: The AFLW needs an overhaul of its fixtures for the women’s code to flourish. Soccer is leading the way but the AFL’s moves to increase crowds in the female code are piecemeal at best.

thenightly.com.au

I don't think double headers for the A-League are all that bad or for other sports. For the A-league, they get to play in a main stadium(with better transport options) and save production costs of broadcasting and scheduling. All the other stuff about stadium logistics is moot. Rob You still would have to hire a stadium, hire the staff for a separate match.

Why the Hundred double headers have boosted women’s game | Raf Nicholson

The popularity of the women’s Hundred has taken everyone by surprise and the record-breaking crowds look like seriously challenging those of women’s football

www.theguardian.com

 

[Teen Wolf]

obviously, you care a lot for the women's game and AFLW.

It is just my opinion looking far away. Not an expert on AFLW at all. I do think the season needs to be extended and start earlier. I also think the AFL match day experience lacks the country footy feel of supporting all the teams in your club. I miss reserves footy, even though it was before my time.

Others have other reasons to think double headers may work

The change to the AFLW season that HAS to happen

GEORGIE PARKER: The AFLW needs an overhaul of its fixtures for the women’s code to flourish. Soccer is leading the way but the AFL’s moves to increase crowds in the female code are piecemeal at best.

thenightly.com.au

I don't think double headers for the A-League are all that bad or for other sports. For the A-league, they get to play in a main stadium(with better transport options) and save production costs of broadcasting and scheduling. All the other stuff about stadium logistics is moot. Rob You still would have to hire a stadium, hire the staff for a separate match.

Why the Hundred double headers have boosted women’s game | Raf Nicholson

The popularity of the women’s Hundred has taken everyone by surprise and the record-breaking crowds look like seriously challenging those of women’s football

www.theguardian.com

You must care a lot about AFLW too, to bring it up in a non-AFL thread.

If more than 25% of standalone games are played in front of sub-1k crowds (as was the case with the A-League women's season), I can understand administrators resorting to any cheap trick to boost attendance figures.

It just doesn't at all resemble what the supposed Australian women's sport renaissance, led by Ms Kerr and co. 9 months ago, represents. If anything, I would've thought now is the time to move away from the old habits which led women's domestic soccer in this country into its current hole.

 

[Aussie in exile]

obviously, you care a lot for the women's game and AFLW.

It is just my opinion looking far away. Not an expert on AFLW at all. I do think the season needs to be extended and start earlier. I also think the AFL match day experience lacks the country footy feel of supporting all the teams in your club. I miss reserves footy, even though it was before my time.

Others have other reasons to think double headers may work

The change to the AFLW season that HAS to happen

GEORGIE PARKER: The AFLW needs an overhaul of its fixtures for the women’s code to flourish. Soccer is leading the way but the AFL’s moves to increase crowds in the female code are piecemeal at best.

thenightly.com.au

I don't think double headers for the A-League are all that bad or for other sports. For the A-league, they get to play in a main stadium(with better transport options) and save production costs of broadcasting and scheduling. All the other stuff about stadium logistics is moot. Rob You still would have to hire a stadium, hire the staff for a separate match.

Why the Hundred double headers have boosted women’s game | Raf Nicholson

The popularity of the women’s Hundred has taken everyone by surprise and the record-breaking crowds look like seriously challenging those of women’s football

www.theguardian.com

How would that work out at SCG, MCG, Adelaide oval, the Gabba and the Perth stadium?

 

[The Educator]

You must care a lot about AFLW too, to bring it up in a non-AFL thread.

If more than 25% of standalone games are played in front of sub-1k crowds (as was the case with the A-League women's season), I can understand administrators resorting to any cheap trick to boost attendance figures.

It just doesn't at all resemble what the supposed Australian women's sport renaissance, led by Ms Kerr and co. 9 months ago, represents. If anything, I would've thought now is the time to move away from the old habits which led women's domestic soccer in this country into its current hole.

Well said.

The combination of double headers and self parodical attendance inflation of the A Leagues should in no way influence what the AFL does with the AFLW

Just a quick sampling, the crowd you can see here (the grandstand on the camera side seats 560 people keep in mind) was quoted at 6,836 of a capacity of 8,000.



The A Leagues women have no FTA TV presence beyond presumably (some?) finals. What is fit for it is irrelevant as to what is fit for the AFLW - they are in different spheres of relevance and import

 

[The_Wookie]

On Nine the NRL are having an outstanding season with an aggregate of 12.3 million viewers watching Free to air and BVOD coverage at an average of 535,000 per match, including 1.339m on 9NOW at an average of 58,000 per match. This is slightly ahead - up 2.5% on the 11.993m who watched on FTA over the first 7 rounds of 2023. (an extra FTA game has been broadcast this year).

The highest rating game on Nine for the season to date is the Vegas match with 796,000 average and a reach 1.6865m

• Thursday nights average 603,000, including the second highest rating of the season (721,000 for Round 5s Storm/Broncos), this is down from 617,000 in 2023.
• Friday nights average 552,000, with the highest rating match being the 609,000 who watched the Good Friday game between the Broncos and Cowboys. This is down from 593,000 in 2023.
• Sundays average 477,000, although that comes down to 431,000 if you exclude the seasons highest rating game to date - the Vegas opening game between the Roosters and Broncos. This is up from 439,000 in 2023.

In Sydney the average metro rating is 166,000, up slightly from 163,000 - but we note some data is unavailable so its probably very close. In Brisbane matches rate 132,000 on average, up from 118.000 but the same provisions apply.

The Average reach for NRL matches is 1.265m to the end of Round 7. Vegas opener drew 1.686m Reach to lead the way, but Storm/Broncos in Round 5 also drew 1.65m.

• Thursdays average Reach 1.431m
• Fridays average Reach 1.319m
• Sundays average Reach 1.123m (1.043m without Vegas)

Foxtel STB ratings remain relatively unknown, with data for just six of 56 games available. Given how close our estimates have been in recent years using known data, we project an average Fox rating of about 247,000 with total viewing of about 14m for the season.

Foxtel BVOD ratings average 264,000 per game with an average reach of 434,000 per match. The highest rating game on FoxBVOD is the opening game betwen the SEagles and Rabbitohs at 443,000 (684,000 reach). Outside of Vegas, Round 7s Broncos/Raiders Saturday night clash with 328,000 average (520,000 reach).

• Thursday nights have an average FoxBVOD audience of 236,000 and an average reach of 383,000. Round 5s Storm/Broncos game is the highest drawing Thursday clash on FoxBVOD.
• Friday nights have an average FoxBVOD audience of 259,000 and an average reach of 435,000. Round 6s Storm/Bulldogs game is the highest drawing Friday game for the season on FoxBVOD with 318,000 viewers and a reach of 530,000.
• Saturdays have an average FoxBVOD audience of 271,000 with an average reach of 436,000. Round 7s Broncos/Raiders game is the highest rating game on Saturday with 328,000.
• Sundays have an average FoxBVOD audience of 270,000 with an average reach of 450,000. If you take the Vegas games out of the equation it comes down to an average FoxBVOD audience of 244,000 and an average reach of 413,000

All things, considered if our calculations are right, we project about 40m aggregate viewers for the NRL this season. An outstanding result and about 3% of last years estimated position at the same time.

 

[PenrithGWS]

View attachment 1968282


On Nine the NRL are having an outstanding season with an aggregate of 12.3 million viewers watching Free to air and BVOD coverage at an average of 535,000 per match, including 1.339m on 9NOW at an average of 58,000 per match. This is slightly ahead - up 2.5% on the 11.993m who watched on FTA over the first 7 rounds of 2023. (an extra FTA game has been broadcast this year).

The highest rating game on Nine for the season to date is the Vegas match with 796,000 average and a reach 1.6865m

• Thursday nights average 603,000, including the second highest rating of the season (721,000 for Round 5s Storm/Broncos), this is down from 617,000 in 2023.
• Friday nights average 552,000, with the highest rating match being the 609,000 who watched the Good Friday game between the Broncos and Cowboys. This is down from 593,000 in 2023.
• Sundays average 477,000, although that comes down to 431,000 if you exclude the seasons highest rating game to date - the Vegas opening game between the Roosters and Broncos. This is up from 439,000 in 2023.

In Sydney the average metro rating is 166,000, up slightly from 163,000 - but we note some data is unavailable so its probably very close. In Brisbane matches rate 132,000 on average, up from 118.000 but the same provisions apply.

The Average reach for NRL matches is 1.265m to the end of Round 7. Vegas opener drew 1.686m Reach to lead the way, but Storm/Broncos in Round 5 also drew 1.65m.

• Thursdays average Reach 1.431m
• Fridays average Reach 1.319m
• Sundays average Reach 1.123m (1.043m without Vegas)

Foxtel STB ratings remain relatively unknown, with data for just six of 56 games available. Given how close our estimates have been in recent years using known data, we project an average Fox rating of about 247,000 with total viewing of about 14m for the season.

Foxtel BVOD ratings average 264,000 per game with an average reach of 434,000 per match. The highest rating game on FoxBVOD is the opening game betwen the SEagles and Rabbitohs at 443,000 (684,000 reach). Outside of Vegas, Round 7s Broncos/Raiders Saturday night clash with 328,000 average (520,000 reach).

• Thursday nights have an average FoxBVOD audience of 236,000 and an average reach of 383,000. Round 5s Storm/Broncos game is the highest drawing Thursday clash on FoxBVOD.
• Friday nights have an average FoxBVOD audience of 259,000 and an average reach of 435,000. Round 6s Storm/Bulldogs game is the highest drawing Friday game for the season on FoxBVOD with 318,000 viewers and a reach of 530,000.
• Saturdays have an average FoxBVOD audience of 271,000 with an average reach of 436,000. Round 7s Broncos/Raiders game is the highest rating game on Saturday with 328,000.
• Sundays have an average FoxBVOD audience of 270,000 with an average reach of 450,000. If you take the Vegas games out of the equation it comes down to an average FoxBVOD audience of 244,000 and an average reach of 413,000

All things, considered if our calculations are right, we project about 40m aggregate viewers for the NRL this season. An outstanding result and about 3% of last years estimated position at the same time.

Told you all that weeks ago.

NRL ratings stronger than ever.