Training 2024 Pre-Season

[SaintsSeptember]

For age analysis, you always get a small number of players who impact early in their careers, and also a similar number of players who can impact late into their careers.

However, for most players this means a 50 game improvement ramp up, and a 50 game drop off either side of their 'peak'.

If you want to apply statistics sure.
And we can, we can say that Byrnes probably needs his 50 etc.
But we know the ACTUAL players on the list and there aren't so many that we can't talk about them individually.

 

[stavro#4]

Couldn't agree more. The track record of clubs that take their eye off the present for the sake of some ellusive future is very bad.

I can assure you the club has both eyes on the present and both hands on the wheel.

There is absolutely no stone unturned with their approach to maximising talent and potential.

But they are also very realistic about the list and the gaps they have.

As I’ve said for the last few days. We could finish 5/6/7/8 and go out first week of finals again - looking outclassed and it could still be a very successful season.

If we are to make the jump into the top 4 and if we somehow made the jump into contention.


2-4 of the king and younger crop need to announce themselves as stars of the comp.

Not potential. Not impressive footballers for their age. Not someone we are pinning our hopes on to be better.

But…

Stars that the league markets. Stars that other fans are jealous of. Stars that when you read the team sheet on a Thursday night you feel defeated already because they are that good and you know it will be hard to stop them.

 

[Barrels]

You're a fat washed campaigner. Denied.

We’re twins?!

 

[Cairnsman]

You know I love you even though your favourite player is Craig Bradley

Love is all we need George.

If we have love then anything is possible.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I can assure you the club has both eyes on the present and both hands on the wheel.

There is absolutely no stone unturned with their approach to maximising talent and potential.

But they are also very realistic about the list and the gaps they have.

As I’ve said for the last few days. We could finish 5/6/7/8 and go out first week of finals again - looking outclassed and it could still be a very successful season.

If we are to make the jump into the top 4 and if we somehow made the jump into contention.


2-4 of the king and younger crop need to announce themselves as stars of the comp.

Not potential. Not impressive footballers for their age. Not someone we are pinning our hopes on to be better.

But…

Stars that the league markets. Stars that other fans are jealous of. Stars that when you read the team sheet on a Thursday night you feel defeated already because they are that good and you know it will be hard to stop them.

I'm pretty happy for guys like Nas, to "not be targetted as trades ".
To "Not have teams dedicate strategy to defeat them ".
He's already a star, i don't give a damn if he's under the radar.

 

[Cairnsman]

you get a badge, he gets a badge, EVERYBODY gets a badge!!
Gotta love the primary school feels...

I haven’t been able to get anything done since George announced the minting of badges, firstly I didn’t realise he had such wide ranging powers, respect, and secondly I’m now obsessed with being awarded a badge.

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

I haven’t been able to get anything done since George announced the minting of badges, firstly I didn’t realise he had such wide ranging powers, respect, and secondly I’m now obsessed with being awarded a badge.

If you ask nicely I'm sure he will give you a Titanic badge

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I haven’t been able to get anything done since George announced the minting of badges, firstly I didn’t realise he had such wide ranging powers, respect, and secondly I’m now obsessed with being awarded a badge.

Great post , please accept this prize.

 

[George]

We’re twins?!

Father and son, son

 

[George]

Daddy pls

 

[gringo2011]

The Generic - Age group analysis is flawed. We have a number of players who are under that "peak performance" stat, who are already above average AFL players.
We don't need to wait another 5 years to get great output from the likes of Windhager, Nasiah, Owens, etc.

There are multiple ways our list can improve significantly in 2024, and that's without any coaching input.
If Ross is worth his weight as a coach , we should see an improvement in the way the players play.


Jack Higgins should be close to peak now, hopefully its a bit more than what we've seen so far. Turns 25 in March.
WIndhager turns 21 in May. Had 100 more disposals in 2023 than 2022. We could see a similar step up.
Jones may explode in a mass of hamstrings, but if he holds it together he's helps improve us.
Crouch will be 30, but the last two seasons had his highest average disposals since 2019, and 23 was a career high number of games.
( it may be his high point , and he starts to drop off, or he could keep rolling on ).
Ross seems to have peaked in 2017 or 2018. Can still play well, but probably won't improve the side.
Wanganeen-Milera turns 21 next week. He's already at a very high level and should have more to come.
( He had the 36th most disposals in the AFL last year, he's not a kid waiting to break out ).
Hill has probably plateaued. If we get what we got the last couple of years we're ok.
Jack Steele has put weight back on, and training reports sound promising. If he plays like 2021 we're a better side.
Mitch Owens is 20, last season he was putting out stats that wouldn't embarrass a 25 year old. Expect more.
Hunter Clark 24, should be hitting his prime, but injuries have stopped him delivering. If he pushes someone else out we are better.
Max King 23. Kicked 28 goals in half a season, if he can stay on the park he's good for 50-70.
Ryan Byrnes 22. Hard to be average when there are others outstanding, but he might be the one to push Seb out.
Stocker will turn 24, but his career had been stunted at Carlton. May well be better in 2024.
Dow 24 , seems to be able to win a handy amount of clearances, will hopefully make up for the loss of Gresham.
Marshall 28. Last year he was fifth in the AFL for hitouts, and his around the ground work was excellent.
Liam Henry 22 : Can only make us better.

Those who haven't played yet are an unknown so far, but we still have potential to improve significantly without them.

Dow could be a huge addition. He's got real pace out of the middle and was a high pick for a reason. There is plenty of growth there but you can't plan around extraordinary potential growth. King, Owens etc look blue chip and earmarked for being above average. Guys like Clark would have to have a massive jump in output. It can happen and you should keep an open mind but need to plan to be a force for a sustained period and keep striving.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I didn't respond as I don't want to be added to some soy boy 4chan circle jerk for doing a service that I am privileged enough to provide.
A badge FFS, maybe a gold star on the forehead as well.
Leave me completely out of this rubbish please.


On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Bad luck ****. You are being knighted.

 

[stavro#4]

I'm pretty happy for guys like Nas, to "not be targetted as trades ".
To "Not have teams dedicate strategy to defeat them ".
He's already a star, i don't give a damn if he's under the radar.

I think Nas and Owens are in that category of very good young players.

There is another tier of superstardom and they are not there … yet.

That’s being unbiased.

Way to go for them and it will be exciting to watch.

I think Gulden is a good example of someone who made the jump last season.

Daicos is another - whilst expected he would be that good. It happened abit quicker than expected.

 

[Saint Watto]

If you ask nicely I'm sure he will give you a Titanic badge

A direct hit there HHC...!!!!!!

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The Generic - Age group analysis is flawed. We have a number of players who are under that "peak performance" stat, who are already above average AFL players.
We don't need to wait another 5 years to get great output from the likes of Windhager, Nasiah, Owens, etc.

There are multiple ways our list can improve significantly in 2024, and that's without any coaching input.
If Ross is worth his weight as a coach , we should see an improvement in the way the players play.


Jack Higgins should be close to peak now, hopefully its a bit more than what we've seen so far. Turns 25 in March.
WIndhager turns 21 in May. Had 100 more disposals in 2023 than 2022. We could see a similar step up.
Jones may explode in a mass of hamstrings, but if he holds it together he's helps improve us.
Crouch will be 30, but the last two seasons had his highest average disposals since 2019, and 23 was a career high number of games.
( it may be his high point , and he starts to drop off, or he could keep rolling on ).
Ross seems to have peaked in 2017 or 2018. Can still play well, but probably won't improve the side.
Wanganeen-Milera turns 21 next week. He's already at a very high level and should have more to come.
( He had the 36th most disposals in the AFL last year, he's not a kid waiting to break out ).
Hill has probably plateaued. If we get what we got the last couple of years we're ok.
Jack Steele has put weight back on, and training reports sound promising. If he plays like 2021 we're a better side.
Mitch Owens is 20, last season he was putting out stats that wouldn't embarrass a 25 year old. Expect more.
Hunter Clark 24, should be hitting his prime, but injuries have stopped him delivering. If he pushes someone else out we are better.
Max King 23. Kicked 28 goals in half a season, if he can stay on the park he's good for 50-70.
Ryan Byrnes 22. Hard to be average when there are others outstanding, but he might be the one to push Seb out.
Stocker will turn 24, but his career had been stunted at Carlton. May well be better in 2024.
Dow 24 , seems to be able to win a handy amount of clearances, will hopefully make up for the loss of Gresham.
Marshall 28. Last year he was fifth in the AFL for hitouts, and his around the ground work was excellent.
Liam Henry 22 : Can only make us better.

Those who haven't played yet are an unknown so far, but we still have potential to improve significantly without them.

Reckon Seb’s last 2 seasons have been his best by a country mile.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScrappyDo]

Coops plays more like Membrey, Phillipou or Owens with more licence to roam as a high HF. Hammer is more a true KP forward who leads. It will be interesting to see how we structure up. Lyon has always played 2 KPFs or at least a tall spiller and a mobile tall for structure.

I'm very much on the Hammer train but based on last year Coops is in front on effectiveness, and is Membrey in front of both.
More than happy for Hammer to go and learn to dominate at VFL, pushing Moose into full time ruck duties.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I can assure you the club has both eyes on the present and both hands on the wheel.

There is absolutely no stone unturned with their approach to maximising talent and potential.

But they are also very realistic about the list and the gaps they have.

As I’ve said for the last few days. We could finish 5/6/7/8 and go out first week of finals again - looking outclassed and it could still be a very successful season.

If we are to make the jump into the top 4 and if we somehow made the jump into contention.


2-4 of the king and younger crop need to announce themselves as stars of the comp.

Not potential. Not impressive footballers for their age. Not someone we are pinning our hopes on to be better.

But…

Stars that the league markets. Stars that other fans are jealous of. Stars that when you read the team sheet on a Thursday night you feel defeated already because they are that good and you know it will be hard to stop them.

I cant understand people demanding immediate sucess. We have taken short cuts for the majority of our history and what has that acheived.

Building a premiership side takes time and careful planning and list management. We have recruited and traded well over the past few years, WE just need to remain patient whilst our kids begin to peak.

That may happen this, next or the year after, but Im confident it will happen and when it does the majority of our maturing players will still be available and contributing.

The club is in the best position financially, facilities, managed, coached and developed than they ever have been. Have faith we will be primed for a flag in the next few years.

 

[Saintbloke]

I think we need not one player stepping up a notch this season, but three or four in that category, and at least one having a breakout season. The older guys play good strong footy and the young guys are still learning and building their bodies, but the group in the middle need to play consistent footy and bridge the gap.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I haven’t been able to get anything done since George announced the minting of badges, firstly I didn’t realise he had such wide ranging powers, respect, and secondly I’m now obsessed with being awarded a badge.

 

[gringo2011]

Lyon played 3 talls, Kosi, Gehrig and Riewoldt.
When Gehrig retired , he played 2 talls, because he only had 2 talls. ( Michael Gardiner might have been around for some games ).
Kosi was always a tall spiller because he wasn't great at marking it.
When one of Riewoldt or Kosi was unavailable he played just one tall.
I'm sure there were games where they were both injured and Milne and Schneider were our forward marking targets.

I think Frazer G was only there for one proper year under Lyon. Yeah Kosi was the deep spiller, then a tall like Gardiner dropping inside as an extra target like he used Sandilands. Funny enough he used McEvoy as a giant defensive spare.

 

[gringo2011]

Couldn't agree more. The track record of clubs that take their eye off the present for the sake of some ellusive future is very bad.

We did the opposite for years and it had the same effect. We tried patching up a leaky ship instead of building a new one. We are on a good path now, we should sit back and enjoy the climb because for the first time in a long time we are building a future not hoping for a miracle.

 

[gringo2011]

It seems I am not aligned with the consensus around here, but my view is that if our list stays healthy, we should be able to achieve what all Ross Lyon teams have achieved in year 2 of his coaching (a prelim).

No reason why we can't do that but probably need a big improvement from a big group to go any further.

 

[gringo2011]

I'm pretty happy for guys like Nas, to "not be targetted as trades ".
To "Not have teams dedicate strategy to defeat them ".
He's already a star, i don't give a damn if he's under the radar.

Probably need that next level of players though. Sinclair, Nas, Steele etc are all very good players but if we can get King and Owens types being feared like Dusty or Curnow we are a lot closer. It pulls the level below up with them as they are minded and they get to run free.

We have a good base to work off but like the last 10 years we lack the real star class players. Hopefully they are already on the list.

 

[True Believer]

What can I say, Watto. I look over this forum like Zeus on Mt. Olympus - a flick of the wrist or a raise of the eyebrow and the villagers congregate - whispering, murmuring, pontificating on what I'll do next

Yeah......



No they don't.........

 

[hangdog]

Steele, Hill, Doogs, Butts, Snags, Crouch go ok.

Yeah, all good names. To be fair though, only Steele has exceeded his GWS days consistently. Butts is definitely under-rated but has had up and down seasons with us. I could say the same for Higgins (and injury luck is mainly to blame) but he isn't playing that much better than he did at the Tigers (again, needs some luck). Doogs came with very high hopes and has been good to very good, not exactly exceeding what he did at Port though. Crouch has been great but we got him at his peak, therefore he hasn't produced his best for us (understandably being near 30 now and having an All Aus blazer in a GF year). And Hill was brilliant last year but his best footy was probably at Freo (hopefully he goes up another gear this year).

Could say Stocker and Wood have come from elsewhere and played their best for us. Fingers crossed Dow does too.

I guess for all the bad luck we've had with guys like Hanners, Jones, Higgins etc we've done excellently with Rookies (Sinclair, Marshall, Wilkie, Sharman, Caminiti, Hayes, Heath/McLennan (Wait an See) etc.) and later picks (Battle, Windhager, Byrnes, Hotton/Garcia/Schoenmaker/Keeler (wait and see).