Autopsy 2024 AFL Season: Rnd 21 Saints v Lions

[Rogue Warrior]

I think the father son rule is pretty interesting.

Its not as level playing field as we think.

Great teams had great players, meaning there is more chance of producing great children players.

The less successful teams had great players leave the club or just didn't attract the great players. Meaning their genetic pool is not as strong.

It will just get worse for teams like St Kilda under this rule and the gap will widen.

Will be very interesting under these revised points changes whether Brisbane can still grab a 2nd 1st round pick. They need to change the system to not only close the loop hole on points but also force clubs to use their next pick in the draft. And force a club to use a pick within that round. If they can’t satisfy it within the current year. They have to use the pick from the following year. As Bassat said the benefit is the access (I.e. a top 4 side getting access to a top 3 pick).

 

[gringo2011]

Dow actually won some clearances last night which cant be said for most of the other mids.
His near complete lack of pre-season and then more injuries has ruined any chance of him really being a contributing player this year.

This off/pre-season we really better hope on some inury luck for our players. If we can get through unscathed we will be much better off.

Fair enough but he's going to have to come a long way to be more than depth long term. He's quite shit.

 

[gringo2011]

Will be very interesting under these revised points changes whether Brisbane can still grab a 2nd 1st round pick. They need to change the system to not only close the loop hole on points but also force clubs to use their next pick in the draft. And force a club to use a pick within that round. If they can’t satisfy it within the current year. They have to use the pick from the following year. As Bassat said the benefit is the access (I.e. a top 4 side getting access to a top 3 pick).

They left the system open this year so that they can get this haul off to Queensland before tightening up next year.

 

[Diehard Saint]

2010 and fallen off a cliff for 15 years since...one elimination final win, and one elimination final loss against the grain. No handouts or concessions. You guys were playing prelims a few years ago, and have been handed the keys to the palace since.
F*CK off.

And let’s not forget …. after gutting their list voluntarily!!!

 

[The Punter]

Pretty sure you blokes had two chances in two weeks to win a flag since then

If we won both games would we have won two premierships? Shoo noob.

 

[saintbill]

They left the system open this year so that they can get this haul off to Queensland before tightening up next year.

Doesn't have any weapons.

Edit: Was referring to Dow. Replied to wrong post.

 

[akaifu]

Mattaes further solidified the belief I’ve had in him in this game. He didn’t stop competing and you can tell he actually gives a shit, which is refreshing.

I’m a broken record on this but jeez the Lions were just just so much bigger and taller than us that when things aren’t going our way, we just cannot compete against size and strength to turn the game in critical contests. We need some bigger and taller bodies on this team.

Sam. Lalor.

 

[Joffaboy]

Clubs that have been handed years of riches have never really dominated footy. You are better to get your systems right and have some clever recruiting outside of the draft system.

There are ways to exploit the system for your benefit. Geelong got GC to pay them to take a high picked player and gave them a FR draft pick for it.

Like in life most of the people I know that were born into money are lazy and entitled. The hard working ones that come from nothing are much better at exploiting what they've got. We need to be that and not just accept that the system is stacked against us. Plenty of strugglers have reversed their fortunes through smart decision making.

Geelong dominated with their F/S, GWS and GC will dominate, Bulldogs won a flag in 2016 then got JUH for free after being a finalist, and Darcy after being a Grand Finalist, Collingwood won a flag on the back of F/S last year, Brisbane get one Ashcroft, beat us by 13 goals and are flag favourites but will get a much better draft pick than us.

You can make excuses all you like, however it is an advantage doubled by the fact they dont require a FRDP to do it and therefor get a free player as NGA or F/S plus a FRDP. So they get a top ten dp, and their first rounder while us, in the lower eight get one pick.

How you can justify that is beyond my reckoning, but somehow you spin it like it is our fault the AFL have corrupted the system.

 

[The Punter]

On the draft, I am a broken record (much like the system is broken...)

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/07/05/father-sons-and-academies-pervert-the-drafts-objective-so-why-are-st-kilda-made-the-scapegoat-by-the-afl-media/

https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/10/14/time-for-afl-to-get-serious-about-equal-opportunity/

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/07/11/scrap-the-academies-save-the-afl-draft/

 

[Rogue Warrior]

On the draft, I am a broken record (much like the system is broken...)

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/07/05/father-sons-and-academies-pervert-the-drafts-objective-so-why-are-st-kilda-made-the-scapegoat-by-the-afl-media/

https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/10/14/time-for-afl-to-get-serious-about-equal-opportunity/

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/07/11/scrap-the-academies-save-the-afl-draft/

Hit the nail on the head here.
I’m sick of this notion that the father son is unique to the Australian game. It’s unique because world wide sporting leagues prefer professionalism over bush-league nostalgia, which is really just a smokescreen for maintaining power for historically strong clubs.

As for the assertion that father sons are good for the promotion of the game, this is lazy. I could easily argue the media and stories surrounding a club courting a player drafted to another club to come and play for his fathers club would generate equal or greater interest.

Lastly, there is a huge flaw playing out that the newer teams were given academies to grow the game AND compensate them for not having access to father sons. Yet now they get academy picks & father sons (Sydney & Brisbane) often in the same year.

 

[The Punter]

Hit the nail on the head here.
I’m sick of this notion that the father son is unique to the Australian game. It’s unique because world wide sporting leagues prefer professionalism over bush-league nostalgia, which is really just a smokescreen for maintaining power for historically strong clubs.

As for the assertion that father sons are good for the promotion of the game, this is lazy. I could easily argue the media and stories surrounding a club courting a player drafted to another club to come and play for his fathers club would generate equal or greater interest.

Lastly, there is a huge flaw playing out that the newer teams were given academies to grow the game AND compensate them for not having access to father sons. Yet now they get academy picks & father sons (Sydney & Brisbane) often in the same year.

And you know what? Players get to the club they want anyway. Horne-Francis got to Port Adelaide, it's just that the Power had to pay fair value for him. Nick Daicos could have got to Collingwood, just the team that drafted him would have been compensated. There is no compensation for having someone else's father-son or academy kid ripped from you. Which further entrenches the inequality.

 

[Silkie]

Just brutal. Over at the first bounce. You know it's grim when oppo fans start cheering Saints goals.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

And you know what? Players get to the club they want anyway. Horne-Francis got to Port Adelaide, it's just that the Power had to pay fair value for him. Nick Daicos could have got to Collingwood, just the team that drafted him would have been compensated. There is no compensation for having someone else's father-son or academy kid ripped from you. Which further entrenches the inequality.

If they aren't double dipping , you essentially get the next pick in the draft instead. Same same.
If Gold Coast had drafted Daicos, and he wanted to go home to the filth, would Mac Andrew not have been reasonable compensation?

Even Matt Roberts, taken the pick after Owens is a pretty handy player.

 

[Sainttony]

I’d change the father/ son to 50 games if you finish outside the 8 otherwise 100.

 

[Baldur]

I feel like a bantamweight that has gone 4 rounds with a heavyweight.

 

[EddieMurphy]

What happened to Steele?
Pou our best midfielder was hardly going to carry the team against several excellent ones.

Yeh, can't all be due to ruck dominance.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I feel like a bantamweight that has gone 4 rounds with a heavyweight.

Chicken.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeh, can't all be due to ruck dominance.

Centre clearances even worse.

 

[SaintersUnite]

I doubt if Richo or Ratts would have had such a poor result.

Lmao.

It’s amazing how short some peoples memories are.




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[EconomicDecline]

What's everyone worried about? Father son rules will change in 6 years. Just have to wait it out.

 

[The Punter]

Just on Rowan:

McInerny remains Rowan kryptonite. Rowan's problem against Oscar (and Gawn) is he becomes completely focussed on his opponent, and half the battle is already lost. I like some of the stuff he did, but he needs to just try to play his own game at stoppage, like he does most weeks.

 

[MordySaint]

Why does this feel like deja vu.

Every year we build ourselves up by a few nice performances only to be plummeted to the earth by a sub standard one.

Consistency has been our major issue for 10 or so years now.

 

[Saintbloke]

Lmao.

It’s amazing how short some peoples memories are.




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Bassat was adamant he didn't want to see any more blowout losses, as one of the reasons he moved Ratten out. Seems to have gone quiet now that yet another Saint's season has turned to sh*t under the greatest coach ever.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Bassat was adamant he didn't want to see any more blowout losses, as one of the reasons he moved Ratten out. Seems to have gone quiet now that yet another Saint's season has turned to sh*t under the greatest coach ever.

And how many blowouts have we had in a season we’re sitting near the bottom of the ladder?

Two.

At the risk of repeating most on here ad nauseum, do you think even “wunder coaches” Dimma and Clarko would have been able to make a silk cloth from a sow’s ear?

We know our list deficiencies - add that to many injuries and a sh*t fixture first half of the season, chances of making finals were always remote. What they have done is blood 6 debutants and we can see the development of the younger group.

Seriously, the hyperbole of your statement of “the greatest coach ever” is just ridiculous.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What's everyone worried about? Father son rules will change in 6 years. Just have to wait it out.

F/S was crap, with players like Ablett Jr and Hawkins going second round.
So they fixed it , to the points matching system, which kind of worked. We forced the Dogs to take Ayce Cordy .

But then they introduced future trading, which meant it was easy to accumulate late points and allowed for double dipping ( ie Gold Coast trading their 2023 1st rounder for a 2024 first rounder so they wouldn't need to spend it on a NGA ).
Way too slow fixing it again.