Training 2024 Preseason reports and discussion

[Judd2Sewell]

Of course the Hawthorn board is going to be more receptive to pro-Hawthorn commentary, especially when it's informed the way Kingys tweets last week were (actually getting to training), or Gabelichs articles where he clearly has genuine insight into the club.
I don’t know why you’d have a problem with Hawthorn supporters liking positive reinforcement in the media and disliking commentators being negative. Seems like pretty standard behavior for a “supporter” group.

The quote was taken from watching the Wiz at training, and his speed is something that several other track-watchers on here have confirmed. Speed is quantifiable. Completely different context to a deliberately sensationalist opinion-based prediction a decade ago.

I was taking the piss you weapon

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Nash, Chol and Mackenzie (second half) BOG in the extended match sim.

 

[smish]

Sam said to Nash: "why aren't you training with the mids?"

That's it. Thanks TD.

 

[Sixpence]

Sam said to Nash: "why aren't you training with the mids?"

I thought it was "Why are you training with the Forwards? You're not a Forward."?

 

[steezy]

Match Sim Report

• 6? (I lost track) x 10min periods
• An "A" team with the best forwards and a "B" team with the best backs
• "A" team mids looked to be Nash, Duke and Ward mostly with Moore rolling through once or twice
• "B" team mids was Worp, Frenchie and Hust
• Reeves appeared to be #1 "A" team ruck but it's match sim, who knows if we'll play 2 rucks?
• Worp in the "B" team all day was interesting to me, looks like they prefer Ward, although they could just have been balancing the sides a bit
• It didn't always come off, but Ward knows where to kick it when going inside 50 and in transition given the chance, just needs to hit it more often
• Hustwaite did some really nice things, looked one of the most composed out there, especially early, not sure about his tank
• Frenchie looks to have developed a lot, he's going really well, strong and usually makes good decisions, not as penetrating with the ball as Hust
• Connor McDonald made some good decisions playing off the wing and up forward and was usually spot on with disposal. His workrate is insane and he will be one of our best for years to come. (He also rolled through a few centre bounces too)
• Chol got involved all over the place, up the ground and in the forward line, made the profile look much better with him and Lewis
• Just when I thought Dimma is a full time forward, he played in defense very late and did some good stuff...
• The workrate of Ginni was next level, up and back and broke some tackles, looks strong, fast and effective, also a lot of chat
• Watson is a menace, got under the skin of his team-mates a lot, also had a really high workrate and knows how to get into good spots to make the most of his opportunities
• Ramma did some great things for the "B" side defence, really made them earn it
• "A" team transition looked a bit scrappy at times, they are trying to slingshot forwards, but sometimes the polish just isn't there
• Mass and Frost were in the weaker defence, while Blank, Scrim, Weddle, Amon, Impey, Sicily seemed to be in the best defensive unit
• A clear game plan to control across half back and then go with speed on the ball once they got a look in
• There wasn't a lot of sky ball going in forward 50, it looked to be more low and hard to leads, whether is came off or not... that's another story
• Apparently Chol claims to be the best set shot in the AFL I overheard Chad say... he didn't prove it today, missed a fair few, but he looked good in general play
• Overall clearly a development period still, but I think enough of the "B" team, especially mids, showed some good signs, the contest for spots will be on

 

[Blackhawk42]

Match Sim Report

• 6? (I lost track) x 10min periods
• An "A" team with the best forwards and a "B" team with the best backs
• "A" team mids looked to be Nash, Duke and Ward mostly with Moore rolling through once or twice
• "B" team mids was Worp, Frenchie and Hust
• Reeves appeared to be #1 "A" team ruck but it's match sim, who knows if we'll play 2 rucks?
• Worp in the "B" team all day was interesting to me, looks like they prefer Ward, although they could just have been balancing the sides a bit
• It didn't always come off, but Ward knows where to kick it when going inside 50 and in transition given the chance, just needs to hit it more often
• Hustwaite did some really nice things, looked one of the most composed out there, especially early, not sure about his tank
• Frenchie looks to have developed a lot, he's going really well, strong and usually makes good decisions, not as penetrating with the ball as Hust
• Connor McDonald made some good decisions playing off the wing and up forward and was usually spot on with disposal. His workrate is insane and he will be one of our best for years to come. (He also rolled through a few centre bounces too)
• Chol got involved all over the place, up the ground and in the forward line, made the profile look much better with him and Lewis
• Just when I thought Dimma is a full time forward, he played in defense very late and did some good stuff...
• The workrate of Ginni was next level, up and back and broke some tackles, looks strong, fast and effective, also a lot of chat
• Watson is a menace, got under the skin of his team-mates a lot, also had a really high workrate and knows how to get into good spots to make the most of his opportunities
• Ramma did some great things for the "B" side defence, really made them earn it
• "A" team transition looked a bit scrappy at times, they are trying to slingshot forwards, but sometimes the polish just isn't there
• Mass and Frost were in the weaker "B" defence, while Blank, Scrim, Weddle, Amon, Impey, Sicily seemed to be in the "A" defensive unit
• A clear game plan to control across half back and then go with speed on the ball once they got a look in
• There wasn't a lot of sky ball going in forward 50, it looked to be more low and hard to leads, whether is came off or not... that's another story
• Apparently Chol claims to be the best set shot in the AFL I overheard Chad say... he didn't prove it today, missed a fair few, but he looked good in general play
• Overall clearly a development period still, but I think enough of the "B" team, especially mids, showed some good signs, the contest for spots will be on

That 'A' back 6 is literally the back 6 I've been hoping for all summer. Good news.

 

[Tall poppy Syndrome]

Match Sim Report

• 6? (I lost track) x 10min periods
• An "A" team with the best forwards and a "B" team with the best backs
• "A" team mids looked to be Nash, Duke and Ward mostly with Moore rolling through once or twice
• "B" team mids was Worp, Frenchie and Hust
• Reeves appeared to be #1 "A" team ruck but it's match sim, who knows if we'll play 2 rucks?
• Worp in the "B" team all day was interesting to me, looks like they prefer Ward, although they could just have been balancing the sides a bit
• It didn't always come off, but Ward knows where to kick it when going inside 50 and in transition given the chance, just needs to hit it more often
• Hustwaite did some really nice things, looked one of the most composed out there, especially early, not sure about his tank
• Frenchie looks to have developed a lot, he's going really well, strong and usually makes good decisions, not as penetrating with the ball as Hust
• Connor McDonald made some good decisions playing off the wing and up forward and was usually spot on with disposal. His workrate is insane and he will be one of our best for years to come. (He also rolled through a few centre bounces too)
• Chol got involved all over the place, up the ground and in the forward line, made the profile look much better with him and Lewis
• Just when I thought Dimma is a full time forward, he played in defense very late and did some good stuff...
• The workrate of Ginni was next level, up and back and broke some tackles, looks strong, fast and effective, also a lot of chat
• Watson is a menace, got under the skin of his team-mates a lot, also had a really high workrate and knows how to get into good spots to make the most of his opportunities
• Ramma did some great things for the "B" side defence, really made them earn it
• "A" team transition looked a bit scrappy at times, they are trying to slingshot forwards, but sometimes the polish just isn't there
• Mass and Frost were in the weaker "B" defence, while Blank, Scrim, Weddle, Amon, Impey, Sicily seemed to be in the "A" defensive unit
• A clear game plan to control across half back and then go with speed on the ball once they got a look in
• There wasn't a lot of sky ball going in forward 50, it looked to be more low and hard to leads, whether is came off or not... that's another story
• Apparently Chol claims to be the best set shot in the AFL I overheard Chad say... he didn't prove it today, missed a fair few, but he looked good in general play
• Overall clearly a development period still, but I think enough of the "B" team, especially mids, showed some good signs, the contest for spots will be on

Thanks for the great report, always appreciated.

Just wanted to clarify where you said ‘overall clearly a development period still’.

Do you mean overall the session was developing/trying different things with the season still a month or so away?

Or do you mean overall Hawthorn in Season 2024 is a developing team with potential but not a finals contending team?

Thanks

 

[peetoo]

The conversation on Nash should be about free agency protection.

That 'A' back 6 is literally the back 6 I've been hoping for all summer. Good news.

It’s fairly conventional to keep the back 6 together, maybe even in intra club. Who is the 7th though? Finn?

 

[extractasam]

more wizard, less gizzard.

King ginni and the wizard Watson

 

[thehardway]

Match Sim Report

• Worp in the "B" team all day was interesting to me, looks like they prefer Ward, although they could just have been balancing the sides a bit

I reckon this is the case. Worpel, along with Newk and Nash will form the backbone of the midfield as per last year. At least to start with. Frenchie, Huss and Wardy certainly looked good though, especially Frenchie. Croc could also be added to this list and will be interesting how we utililise him this year. He's another beast. Strong in the contest, elite fitness and highly skilled. Oh, and there's a guy called Day to come back. Happy days for our midfield.

 

[hawkmang]

how did DGB look?

 

[excitingnews]

I reckon Hardwick will have a part time role looking out for Ginnivan and Watson. With the attention those two will be getting having a player with some mongrel about them to look after the young blokes will be important

 

[Yardie]

There are times even last year where his game sense wasn't quite there. His skills aren't as slick as Macdonald or Mackenzie. Despite his height he doesn't really create a threat arially and can't play forward well. Which is something Hustwaite showed glimpses of doing in his first game.

But please don't take it the wrong way as a knock on him, he's been great recently. When I say limited I mean it in the same way i'd say Brad Sewell or Liam Sheils was a limited player. Sewell didn't have the damaging disposal or slickness like Lewis and Mitchell. Sheils was good defensively but when he moved up the rungs as a key cog in the midfield he was never the type to be regularly in the votes. Or even how O'meara was a limited player.

Some of our young players at this stage look like they can be stars of the comp, some might be, some might just be role players and some may not make it. But thats the exciting journey we are on. Nash and worpel absolutely could be multi premiership players for us, but they could also be passed up and take a lesser role.

I think you are looking at Nash through the wrong lens and comparing him to other players that have grown up playing the game. The McDonald/McKenzie types don't have to grow their skills per se, they rather have to grow into playing at AFL standard. Nash has the opportunity to grow both and hence, IMO has a similar ceiling to those players.

 

[wizzard400]

Any word on how McCabe, Ryan and Dear have been tracking?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Match Sim Report

• 6? (I lost track) x 10min periods
• An "A" team with the best forwards and a "B" team with the best backs
• "A" team mids looked to be Nash, Duke and Ward mostly with Moore rolling through once or twice
• "B" team mids was Worp, Frenchie and Hust
• Reeves appeared to be #1 "A" team ruck but it's match sim, who knows if we'll play 2 rucks?
• Worp in the "B" team all day was interesting to me, looks like they prefer Ward, although they could just have been balancing the sides a bit
• It didn't always come off, but Ward knows where to kick it when going inside 50 and in transition given the chance, just needs to hit it more often
• Hustwaite did some really nice things, looked one of the most composed out there, especially early, not sure about his tank
• Frenchie looks to have developed a lot, he's going really well, strong and usually makes good decisions, not as penetrating with the ball as Hust
• Connor McDonald made some good decisions playing off the wing and up forward and was usually spot on with disposal. His workrate is insane and he will be one of our best for years to come. (He also rolled through a few centre bounces too)
• Chol got involved all over the place, up the ground and in the forward line, made the profile look much better with him and Lewis
• Just when I thought Dimma is a full time forward, he played in defense very late and did some good stuff...
• The workrate of Ginni was next level, up and back and broke some tackles, looks strong, fast and effective, also a lot of chat
• Watson is a menace, got under the skin of his team-mates a lot, also had a really high workrate and knows how to get into good spots to make the most of his opportunities
• Ramma did some great things for the "B" side defence, really made them earn it
• "A" team transition looked a bit scrappy at times, they are trying to slingshot forwards, but sometimes the polish just isn't there
• Mass and Frost were in the weaker "B" defence, while Blank, Scrim, Weddle, Amon, Impey, Sicily seemed to be in the "A" defensive unit
• A clear game plan to control across half back and then go with speed on the ball once they got a look in
• There wasn't a lot of sky ball going in forward 50, it looked to be more low and hard to leads, whether is came off or not... that's another story
• Apparently Chol claims to be the best set shot in the AFL I overheard Chad say... he didn't prove it today, missed a fair few, but he looked good in general play
• Overall clearly a development period still, but I think enough of the "B" team, especially mids, showed some good signs, the contest for spots will be on

Happy to hear that Chol is putting in a good work rate around the ground.

If he and Lewis can make it work together that will be massive for the teams development.

And the good thing is that both Chop and Lewis are lovely kicks so they will make the most of their chances at goal.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The sim was broken up into eight x10 minute intervals. Essentially four x20 minute quarters which had a drinks break in the middle of each.

As others have pointed out, in part, the main groups for each team were:

Midfield:
Yellow - Reeves, Newcombe, Ward and Nash
Blue - Meek, Worpel, Mackenzie and Hustwaite

Wing:
Yellow - Massimo (rotated), MacDonald
Blue - CJ, Morrison

Backlines:
Yellow - DGB, Ryan, Sicily, Frost, Massimo
Blue - Scrim, Blanck, Impey, Amon, Weddle

Forwards:
Yellow - Lewis, Chol, Ginnivan, Watson, Hardwick, Moore
Blue - Bennetts, JOS, Butler, Tucker, Rama

I'm obviously missing several players. It was hard to follow them all and try and take down as many pointers (which I'll post later when I have more time) as I could at the same time. Some swapped around too. The midfield units were essentially set for the whole game though.

 

[steezy]

Thanks for the great report, always appreciated.

Just wanted to clarify where you said ‘overall clearly a development period still’.

Do you mean overall the session was developing/trying different things with the season still a month or so away?

Or do you mean overall Hawthorn in Season 2024 is a developing team with potential but not a finals contending team?

Thanks

I'd like to think we are finals contending, and I love some of the stuff I'm seeing, but the lack of connection and more importantly consistancy I've seen in the pre-season compared to the top teams sometimes makes me think this year may not be a finals year, just a solid development year. But as our lord and saviour Sam Mitchell says "I'm not going to put a ceiling on what we can achieve"

 

[steezy]

Any word on how McCabe, Ryan and Dear have been tracking?

McCabe is looking good, I think he's going to be very solid in the future, did not look out of place at all, held his own and from what I've seen, makes good decisions and uses it well. Ryan didn't pop out to me as much as some other sessions but looked solid too, especially since he was working against the best offensive unit. Dear I didn't really notice, but Jack O'Sullivan did a couple of things that made me sit up and notice him, albeit not many

 

[cryptor]

• An "A" team with the best forwards and a "B" team with the best backs
• "A" team mids looked to be Nash, Duke and Ward mostly with Moore rolling through once or twice
• "B" team mids was Worp, Frenchie and Hust
• Reeves appeared to be #1 "A" team ruck but it's match sim, who knows if we'll play 2 rucks?
• Worp in the "B" team all day was interesting to me, looks like they prefer Ward, although they could just have been balancing the sides a bit

First off, great report. Thank you.

On the A/B midfields. I think if the selection for this was trying to match the best forwards up against the best backs then it would be counter productive to stack one midfield too heavily.

They seem like fairly matched midfields, though A does seem slightly stronger in terms of experience.

Nash & Hust - tall mid
Duke & Worpel - extractor
Ward & Mackenzie - inside/outside class

 

[Judd2Sewell]

First off, great report. Thank you.

On the A/B midfields. I think if the selection for this was trying to match the best forwards up against the best backs then it would be counter productive to stack one midfield too heavily.

They seem like fairly matched midfields, though A does seem slightly stronger in terms of experience.

Nash & Hust - tall mid
Duke & Worpel - extractor
Ward & Mackenzie - inside/outside class

^
And that's how the midfield lined up against each other almost exclusively in the first half.

 

[bigmaxi]

Match Sim Report

• 6? (I lost track) x 10min periods
• An "A" team with the best forwards and a "B" team with the best backs
• "A" team mids looked to be Nash, Duke and Ward mostly with Moore rolling through once or twice
• "B" team mids was Worp, Frenchie and Hust
• Reeves appeared to be #1 "A" team ruck but it's match sim, who knows if we'll play 2 rucks?
• Worp in the "B" team all day was interesting to me, looks like they prefer Ward, although they could just have been balancing the sides a bit
• It didn't always come off, but Ward knows where to kick it when going inside 50 and in transition given the chance, just needs to hit it more often
• Hustwaite did some really nice things, looked one of the most composed out there, especially early, not sure about his tank
• Frenchie looks to have developed a lot, he's going really well, strong and usually makes good decisions, not as penetrating with the ball as Hust
• Connor McDonald made some good decisions playing off the wing and up forward and was usually spot on with disposal. His workrate is insane and he will be one of our best for years to come. (He also rolled through a few centre bounces too)
• Chol got involved all over the place, up the ground and in the forward line, made the profile look much better with him and Lewis
• Just when I thought Dimma is a full time forward, he played in defense very late and did some good stuff...
• The workrate of Ginni was next level, up and back and broke some tackles, looks strong, fast and effective, also a lot of chat
• Watson is a menace, got under the skin of his team-mates a lot, also had a really high workrate and knows how to get into good spots to make the most of his opportunities
• Ramma did some great things for the "B" side defence, really made them earn it
• "A" team transition looked a bit scrappy at times, they are trying to slingshot forwards, but sometimes the polish just isn't there
• Mass and Frost were in the weaker defence, while Blank, Scrim, Weddle, Amon, Impey, Sicily seemed to be in the best defensive unit
• A clear game plan to control across half back and then go with speed on the ball once they got a look in
• There wasn't a lot of sky ball going in forward 50, it looked to be more low and hard to leads, whether is came off or not... that's another story
• Apparently Chol claims to be the best set shot in the AFL I overheard Chad say... he didn't prove it today, missed a fair few, but he looked good in general play
• Overall clearly a development period still, but I think enough of the "B" team, especially mids, showed some good signs, the contest for spots will be on

Was Seamus Mitchell out there?

 

[Lickmesocks]

Interesting reports above that differ a little from mine but here we go.

Best-
CJ Weddle CMac Nash and Newc the best. Seamus got it a fair bit but butchered it by foot. CJ has that real bounce and run back that we have missed.

Hardwick looks completely lost as a forward and out of position. Can’t see that experiment lasting too long.

Chol is a mountain and a huge presence for us. Kicked poorly for goal today and missed a few sitters but will be very good for us as a target. If he and Lewis can stay out of each others way, we have a decent combo to work with.

The Whiz just finds the ball. Again missed a few but gets in the right positions all the time and looks dangerous. So many scrubber kicks forward and he ends up with it.

Ginni was smashed a few times and really hurt but he gets back up and keeps going. His footy smarts and brain are great and can hit a little left foot kick 20 metres in traffic when others blaze away.

Mackenzie seems to find the ball and reads it ok but far too many times caught with it. 3-4 times today pinged for holding the ball. His movements by hand and foot are Sam Mitchell clone.

Scrimshaw looks likely to be CHB for mine with Blankets at FB and Sicily 3rd tall. Amon Mass and CJ all providing run from the back.

Anyway enough for now.

 

[Hawked Wings]

Sam said to Nash: "why aren't you training with the mids?"

I was close . I’m in Vegas at the moment so my memory is a little off

 

[stemline]

Was Seamus Mitchell out there?

He was. Did some nice stuff but looked like he copped a knock on the jaw in the 2nd half and left the field.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Interesting reports above that differ a little from mine but here we go.

Best-
CJ Weddle CMac Nash and Newc the best. Seamus got it a fair bit but butchered it by foot. CJ has that real bounce and run back that we have missed.

Hardwick looks completely lost as a forward and out of position. Can’t see that experiment lasting too long.

Chol is a mountain and a huge presence for us. Kicked poorly for goal today and missed a few sitters but will be very good for us as a target. If he and Lewis can stay out of each others way, we have a decent combo to work with.

The Whiz just finds the ball. Again missed a few but gets in the right positions all the time and looks dangerous. So many scrubber kicks forward and he ends up with it.

Ginni was smashed a few times and really hurt but he gets back up and keeps going. His footy smarts and brain are great and can hit a little left foot kick 20 metres in traffic when others blaze away.

Mackenzie seems to find the ball and reads it ok but far too many times caught with it. 3-4 times today pinged for holding the ball. His movements by hand and foot are Sam Mitchell clone.

Scrimshaw looks likely to be CHB for mine with Blankets at FB and Sicily 3rd tall. Amon Mass and CJ all providing run from the back.

Anyway enough for now.

Hardwick was ineffectual as a forward, bar one nice kick to Chol. Newc gave him a spray after he went the wrong way when they were breaking from the D50, he had to become the option on the wing, but he didn't, and the play was held up. Literally the play after he moved back (late in the last quarter) he took an intercept mark.

Mackenzie got heaps of it. In the first half he was rushed IMO, and got caught. Though one of those times, when Watson got him, he did handball it. That one happened in front of me.

Second half when there was more space he was wracking them up, no one was near him. He had some lovely kicks - switch plays, two darts in congestion when surrounded, two kicks to the advantage of the forwards.

He certainly looks for a good option each time and dances around - like Mitchell as you say. Hopefully he adjusts and just disposes of it quicker in congestion.