Training 2024 Preseason Training Thread

[EnolaGay]

Have to say that now that I have seen 3 match sims I still have concerns with our ability to come up with a plan B due to our average marking ability down the line. All three I have seen have showed we will get exposed if sides force us into the down the line kick due to a solid midfield zone which will happen. We still need to transition some new players to fix this. Caddy looks like he will help but it will more likely be 2026 before he consistently becomes a strong target even if he is playing a fair bit of footy. Jones has to start converting more of his opportunities into marks.
The flip side is the defense looks strong. Even the red defenders where taking a lot of intercept marks.

That might just add to concerns about our delivery into the forward 50!

 

[ant555]

That might just add to concerns about our delivery into the forward 50!

It will for sure. We will need to have a better system and work rate.

 

[ghostdog]

It will for sure. We will need to have a better system and work rate.

Enter The Unicorn.

 

[Milanista28]

Have to say that now that I have seen 3 match sims I still have concerns with our ability to come up with a plan B due to our average marking ability down the line. All three I have seen have showed we will get exposed if sides force us into the down the line kick due to a solid midfield zone which will happen. We still need to transition some new players to fix this. Caddy looks like he will help but it will more likely be 2026 before he consistently becomes a strong target even if he is playing a fair bit of footy. Jones has to start converting more of his opportunities into marks.
The flip side is the defense looks strong. Even the red defenders where taking a lot of intercept marks.

The obvious solution is to get better at marking down the line, but can we actually plan for our weakness, I mean can we work on bringing the ball to ground and having representation at ground level? Can we turn this into a strength?

 

[Keystone agony]

Maynard levels? We want our guys to play the ball not the man

Defensivily Maynard is pretty good, but the name is trivial

Yeah fair enough on definitions

Personally I count any player expected to play ruck minutes as a ruck

I’m just saying if Draper and Wright are 2 of the front half talls then Goldy, Bryan, Jones, Caddy are all basically competing for the same spot.

Thats correct

Caddy is a 1st year tall
Goldy 35?
Harry has played how many games put of how many since drafted?

 

[faible]

The obvious solution is to get better at marking down the line, but can we actually plan for our weakness, I mean can we work on bringing the ball to ground and having representation at ground level? Can we turn this into a strength?

I assume you can make plans to try to compensate for it, whether you can turn 'lack of aerial marking power' in to a strength is questionable though given what we've seen year after year after year.

Without reliable marking targets it means opposition defence can press up higher and force us deeper back in to defence because they're not having to worry about <insert players> that are likely to take a mark and get over the zone.

This means you're limited to either picking your way by foot through the zone, which requires multiple players with exceptional skills by foot (only one player makes it easy to shut down) or running it out with guys that have the leg speed to break through (again, with only one of these it makes it easy to shut down).

Having Saad + McKenna as runners meant shutting down the running option was much harder, we've currently got McGrath (who seems to have lost that speed) and Hind isn't a guaranteed starter. Redman is solid but doesn't have that genuine pace to really break apart a zone.

Martin off a HBF makes a lot of sense for the above, he's got the foot skills to pick targets through a zone that means we've got someone other than Ridley to get the ball to, has a good tank and the size to offer a marking target from a defensive kick in.

Goldstein will be an interesting addition as he's generally a good around the ground player so should offer a more reliable marketing target for us than we've had in the ruck for a time.

 

[ghostdog]

I assume you can make plans to try to compensate for it, whether you can turn 'lack of aerial marking power' in to a strength is questionable though given what we've seen year after year after year.

Without reliable marking targets it means opposition defence can press up higher and force us deeper back in to defence because they're not having to worry about <insert players> that are likely to take a mark and get over the zone.

This means you're limited to either picking your way by foot through the zone, which requires multiple players with exceptional skills by foot (only one player makes it easy to shut down) or running it out with guys that have the leg speed to break through (again, with only one of these it makes it easy to shut down).

Having Saad + McKenna as runners meant shutting down the running option was much harder, we've currently got McGrath (who seems to have lost that speed) and Hind isn't a guaranteed starter. Redman is solid but doesn't have that genuine pace to really break apart a zone.

Martin off a HBF makes a lot of sense for the above, he's got the foot skills to pick targets through a zone that means we've got someone other than Ridley to get the ball to, has a good tank and the size to offer a marking target from a defensive kick in.

Goldstein will be an interesting addition as he's generally a good around the ground player so should offer a more reliable marketing target for us than we've had in the ruck for a time.

It's also why Baldwin > Laverde makes sense.

 

[faible]

It's also why Baldwin > Laverde makes sense.

Laverde being a bad kick is such a wierd meme.

He's not elite, but he's not horrible either. He's also an absolute defensive workhorse.

 

[ant555]

The obvious solution is to get better at marking down the line, but can we actually plan for our weakness, I mean can we work on bringing the ball to ground and having representation at ground level? Can we turn this into a strength?

It will need personal changes IMO

 

[Squeaky]

Goldstein will be an interesting addition as he's generally a good around the ground player so should offer a more reliable marketing target for us than we've had in the ruck for a time.

I didn't think we got Goldy to work in the marketing department

 

[ghostdog]

Laverde being a bad kick is such a wierd meme.

He's not elite, but he's not horrible either. He's also an absolute defensive workhorse.

Didn't say he was bad, I just think Baldwin is better.

 

[Keystone agony]

It will need personal changes IMO

Well thats occured

Mckay, Reid, Cox, HJ, Goldy, Duursma, Caddy

What was the contested marking differential?

 

[Keystone agony]

Didn't say he was bad, I just think Baldwin is better.

Laverde pants's him for defending ability and versatility

I think this year most of the time it wont be

Lav vs Baldwin

But Z.Reid vs Baldwin

You absolutely can not have Mckay, Reid, Baldwin, Ridley, Redman, Mcgrath, Martin a sthe back 7 and expect positive results over an extended period of time

Even a shit side like the hawks round 1 Breust, Moore, Watson, CMac, Ginnivan would love that back 7

Hope the midfield/fwd line has sorted out their shit (defensive willingness/mindset, Personal, Footy Smarts ect) further afield

 

[ant555]

Well thats occured

Mckay, Reid, Cox, HJ, Goldy, Duursma, Caddy

What was the contested marking differential?

Yes there have been personal changes but it has not addressed things short term which I have repeatedly said was going to be hard and take time.
McKay is hardly going to make a marking presence in front of the footy. Neither is Reid or Cox in the back half.
Harry is still not grabbing all his marks in match sim and it appears to be his weak point and he is not new.
Goldy is not a great contested mark and has been nullified by Bryan to a degree in match sim.
Caddy should make a difference but it is down the track.
Duursma adds to the medium marking power.
Based on actual live viewing of our match sims it is till going to be an issue. Both the red and black sides easily intercepted in defense when the team defense forced a kick down the line.
Contested marking differential ? I do not know but if you think it was not an issue for the last however many years then I strongly disagree with that read.
There was a reason why we play chip chip footy.

 

[dank420_]

personnel

 

[Squeaky]

personnel

Don't take it personnelly...

 

[dank420_]

Don't take it personnelly...

Look maybe he does mean personal changes.

I stopped drinking coffee for a while and it was a good personal change.

 

[Squeaky]

Look maybe he does mean personal changes.

I stopped drinking coffee for a while and it was a good personal change.

Ha ha. It makes my eye twitch too...
Whatever the personal changes were, it is not worth giving up coffee!!

 

[VelvetSledge]

Yes there have been personal changes but it has not addressed things short term which I have repeatedly said was going to be hard and take time.
McKay is hardly going to make a marking presence in front of the footy. Neither is Reid or Cox in the back half.
Harry is still not grabbing all his marks in match sim and it appears to be his weak point and he is not new.
Goldy is not a great contested mark and has been nullified by Bryan to a degree in match sim.
Caddy should make a difference but it is down the track.
Duursma adds to the medium marking power.
Based on actual live viewing of our match sims it is till going to be an issue. Both the red and black sides easily intercepted in defense when the team defense forced a kick down the line.
Contested marking differential ? I do not know but if you think it was not an issue for the last however many years then I strongly disagree with that read.
There was a reason why we play chip chip footy.

Thanks for the reports on this Ant!

Hopefully what you've picked up is glaring enough to the coaches that they can adjust a game plan promptly.

 

[faible]

Yes there have been personal changes but it has not addressed things short term which I have repeatedly said was going to be hard and take time.
McKay is hardly going to make a marking presence in front of the footy. Neither is Reid or Cox in the back half.
Harry is still not grabbing all his marks in match sim and it appears to be his weak point and he is not new.
Goldy is not a great contested mark and has been nullified by Bryan to a degree in match sim.
Caddy should make a difference but it is down the track.
Duursma adds to the medium marking power.
Based on actual live viewing of our match sims it is till going to be an issue. Both the red and black sides easily intercepted in defense when the team defense forced a kick down the line.
Contested marking differential ? I do not know but if you think it was not an issue for the last however many years then I strongly disagree with that read.
There was a reason why we play chip chip footy.

Need Hooker or Cloke to teach players how to hold the mark they get their hands two. Those two never dropped one they got a hold of.

 

[kleanr]

This couldn't of been this mornings training report.
Cause Dylan Shiel and tex wanganeen were definitely there having a kick with the rehab group which included McKay,weed, McGrath, Langford.
Didn't see Draper,laverde,Hobbs,Ridley or stringer.
Perkins did most of the stuff.
I was there from 9.00( they came out onto the track at 9.40) until 11.20. And not 1 player went over to the 2nd oval all morning

sorry mate, I should have started with the date, it was Saturdays - apologies

 

[Keystone agony]

Yes there have been personal changes but it has not addressed things short term which I have repeatedly said was going to be hard and take time.
McKay is hardly going to make a marking presence in front of the footy. Neither is Reid or Cox in the back half.
Harry is still not grabbing all his marks in match sim and it appears to be his weak point and he is not new.
Goldy is not a great contested mark and has been nullified by Bryan to a degree in match sim.
Caddy should make a difference but it is down the track.
Duursma adds to the medium marking power.
Based on actual live viewing of our match sims it is till going to be an issue. Both the red and black sides easily intercepted in defense when the team defense forced a kick down the line.
Contested marking differential ? I do not know but if you think it was not an issue for the last however many years then I strongly disagree with that read.
There was a reason why we play chip chip footy.

Not saying it is a huge issue or not here

Just that you seem to think it is, which is fine. I remember looking at a few stats which suggested your probably right. Just usually when people have these opinions they usually have some form of statistical substance behind it? Is that not the case with you, just purely an eye from the 2nd tier thing your seeing?

And id say your probably right based on my seeing a little aswell. How big an issue it is... im not so sure. How much is actually related to personel... more in depth research needs to be done

Tall Marking Forwards/Rucks is not our go though... no

I thought that almoat didnt need to be stated it was that obvious

 

[Beerfish]

Just usually when people have these opinions they usually have some form of statistical substance behind it?

Like yourself?

 

[eth-dog]

Well thats occured

Mckay, Reid, Cox, HJ, Goldy, Duursma, Caddy

What was the contested marking differential?

We were 15th last year
17th in 2022
9th in 2021
15th in 2020

We suck at marking down the line. Blind Freddy could tell you that.

 

[Squeaky]

We were 15th last year
17th in 2022
9th in 2021
15th in 2020

We suck at marking down the line. Blind Freddy could tell you that.

Yep. As Spud would say: Stevie Wonder can see that!