2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team

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Gee Montagna's rationale behind his AA team tonight was embarrassing.

Doesn't pick D'Ambrosio because there's 'too many inside mids' that need to be rewarded.

Then picks Weitering over McGovern, despite Gov being the #2 ranked KPD and Weitering the #12.

Seriously, just pick the best player for those positions, don't put people out of position to fit them in. If they're an onballer that's #10 in the league but there's 2 ahead of them, then they miss out. They don't get shoved on a wing/forward pocket to 'fit' them in the team.

At least King and even Robbo tried being rational regarding this.
 
bzparkes said:
Gee Montagna's rationale behind his AA team tonight was embarrassing.

Doesn't pick D'Ambrosio because there's 'too many inside mids' that need to be rewarded.

Then picks Weitering over McGovern, despite Gov being the #2 ranked KPD and Weitering the #12.

Seriously, just pick the best player for those positions, don't put people out of position to fit them in. If they're an onballer that's #10 in the league but there's 2 ahead of them, then they miss out. They don't get shoved on a wing/forward pocket to 'fit' them in the team.

At least King and even Robbo tried being rational regarding this.
Click to expand...
It is exactly what has happened for the last 20 years though. I know who I would pick to play on the wing between the two.
 

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bzparkes said:
Then picks Weitering over McGovern, despite Gov being the #2 ranked KPD and Weitering the #12.
Click to expand...
McGovern ranks #25th for defensive 1v1 loss rate among KPD/3rd talls
 
Lingsface said:
It is exactly what has happened for the last 20 years though. I know who I would pick to play on the wing between the two.
Click to expand...
And it shouldn't.

The way they currently select the team is stupid. They put inside mids in roles they'd never play in a real game because they 'deserve' it. That's how you get 30 goal Leon Davis in the side over 50+ goal LeCras/Porplyzia as a forward pocket.

Nobody was picking Leon Davis for a FP role over either of those 2 for a real game, so he didn't deserve the position over someone who's specialised in it and far better at the role.

Pigeonholing players into roles they don't play, just to 'fit' them in makes a mockery of the entire side.

If they want to do it properly then it should be done this way:

Every team is assigned a person to pick 1 player from their team for each position(if any are worthy of picking, if not, they can skip).

then once the season's fully over, they meet up and compare players for each position that were nominated and take a majority consensus vote of who the best player was in each nominated position and they are the ones who make the AA team.

I get that positions can be somewhat fluid, so half-forwards/backs and pockets can sometimes be somewhat interchangeable.

Some years we get 4-5 tall forwards, which is just plain dumb.

Hell, do it similar to the 22 under 22 team that was done a couple of weeks ago.

If any team captains make the side, they are the AA captain, so we don't have a debacle like Buddy being AA captain when Hurn was the only captain to make the side in 2018(who went on to be the premiership captain).

If multiple captains are nominated, then a debate over who the captain and vice captain/s takes place.

Base the team of how a real team would be selected and take if from there. If the top 30 players in the league are all mids, then only the top 5 make the cut. Too bad for the rest. Sorry, play better next year.
 
Art Vandelay_ said:
McGovern ranks #25th for defensive 1v1 loss rate among KPD/3rd talls
Click to expand...
Have you seen how often and how freely the ball enters our D50 under zero pressure, by any chance?

He's also massively ahead in every other stat. Weitering's pretty much a pure stopper and not much else.
 
bzparkes said:
Gee Montagna's rationale behind his AA team tonight was embarrassing.

Doesn't pick D'Ambrosio because there's 'too many inside mids' that need to be rewarded.

Then picks Weitering over McGovern, despite Gov being the #2 ranked KPD and Weitering the #12.

Seriously, just pick the best player for those positions, don't put people out of position to fit them in. If they're an onballer that's #10 in the league but there's 2 ahead of them, then they miss out. They don't get shoved on a wing/forward pocket to 'fit' them in the team.

At least King and even Robbo tried being rational regarding this.
Click to expand...
Problem is most of AA selectors will have the same view as Montagna, That’s why there is a bench you can put the unlucky midfielders who missed on the pine
 
bzparkes said:
And it shouldn't.

The way they currently select the team is stupid. They put inside mids in roles they'd never play in a real game because they 'deserve' it. That's how you get 30 goal Leon Davis in the side over 50+ goal LeCras/Porplyzia as a forward pocket.

Nobody was picking Leon Davis for a FP role over either of those 2 for a real game, so he didn't deserve the position over someone who's specialised in it and far better at the role.

Pigeonholing players into roles they don't play, just to 'fit' them in makes a mockery of the entire side.

If they want to do it properly then it should be done this way:

Every team is assigned a person to pick 1 player from their team for each position(if any are worthy of picking, if not, they can skip).

then once the season's fully over, they meet up and compare players for each position that were nominated and take a majority consensus vote of who the best player was in each nominated position and they are the ones who make the AA team.

I get that positions can be somewhat fluid, so half-forwards/backs and pockets can sometimes be somewhat interchangeable.

Some years we get 4-5 tall forwards, which is just plain dumb.

Hell, do it similar to the 22 under 22 team that was done a couple of weeks ago.

If any team captains make the side, they are the AA captain, so we don't have a debacle like Buddy being AA captain when Hurn was the only captain to make the side in 2018(who went on to be the premiership captain).

If multiple captains are nominated, then a debate over who the captain and vice captain/s takes place.

Base the team of how a real team would be selected and take if from there. If the top 30 players in the league are all mids, then only the top 5 make the cut. Too bad for the rest. Sorry, play better next year.
Click to expand...
All good points but players like Bont and Heeney are very worthy forwards when you have the amazing players already in the forward line they can get 2-4 goals in a game and add to the side as an extra rotation through the midfield. Also if there wasn’t enough room for players like Merrett and Daicos in the midfield they would do a better job than Ambrosio and who ever the other options are, they are just better footballers.
 
Lingsface said:
All good points but players like Bont and Heeney are very worthy forwards when you have the amazing players already in the forward line they can get 2-4 goals in a game and add to the side as an extra rotation through the midfield. Also if there wasn’t enough room for players like Merrett and Daicos in the midfield they would do a better job than Ambrosio and who ever the other options are, they are just better footballers.
Click to expand...

Yes, but both Bont and Heeney got in the AA discussion playing in the midfield. Just because they can play somewhere else is irrelevant. I am sure Taylor Walker would have made a very good defender, you can't just stick him at CHB just because the forward line in the AA team is full.
 
Lingsface said:
All good points but players like Bont and Heeney are very worthy forwards when you have the amazing players already in the forward line they can get 2-4 goals in a game and add to the side as an extra rotation through the midfield. Also if there wasn’t enough room for players like Merrett and Daicos in the midfield they would do a better job than Ambrosio and who ever the other options are, they are just better footballers.
Click to expand...
I get the rationale behind someone like Bontempelli being picked at HF, because he's kicked a lot of goals and spent half his time there but the wing is a specialised role and wingers should be put there.

I'd like to see those 2 actually play that role for a reasonable amount of time instead of being shoved there because people assume they'll be better at it based of no/small sample size.

If they're not good enough to break the starting midfield then they get put on the bench.
 
bzparkes said:
I get the rationale behind someone like Bontempelli being picked at HF, because he's kicked a lot of goals and spent half his time there but the wing is a specialised role and wingers should be put there.

I'd like to see those 2 actually play that role for a reasonable amount of time instead of being shoved there because people assume they'll be better at it based of no/small sample size.

If they're not good enough to break the starting midfield then they get put on the bench.
Click to expand...
As much as I agree with myself 😂
I see your point clear as day too.
 

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RUNVS said:
Yes, but both Bont and Heeney got in the AA discussion playing in the midfield. Just because they can play somewhere else is irrelevant. I am sure Taylor Walker would have made a very good defender, you can't just stick him at CHB just because the forward line in the AA team is full.
Click to expand...
They average very similar goals per game to the small forwards in contention and lead them in score involvements. Some players have roles where they take center bounces and then play a forward or defenders role anyway, they also highlighted that Bont had had as many possesions in the forward 50 as guys like Ben King as well. The game has become quite position-less in a sense anyway. The half forwards heat map is very similar to an attacking midfielder and sometimes wingman. I just think if picking a side you are getting more bang for your buck with Warners Heeneys Bont on the hff over a 3rd or 4th in-line Rayner Langford.
 
NGL, it always peeved me that Robbie Gray got plunked at HF on AA sides when he was very clearly the top 1-2 inside mid in the comp.
 
bzparkes said:
Have you seen how often and how freely the ball enters our D50 under zero pressure, by any chance?

He's also massively ahead in every other stat. Weitering's pretty much a pure stopper and not much else.
Click to expand...
The thing with defenders is it’s much easier to have much better looking stats in a weaker team because the ball is coming in more often compared to a stronger team.

Also team defence plays a big part where a defender can win the contest for his team by keeping his opponent away and letting his teammate win the ball. Thereby not registering a stat but being effective.
 
bzparkes said:
And it shouldn't.

The way they currently select the team is stupid. They put inside mids in roles they'd never play in a real game because they 'deserve' it. That's how you get 30 goal Leon Davis in the side over 50+ goal LeCras/Porplyzia as a forward pocket.

Nobody was picking Leon Davis for a FP role over either of those 2 for a real game, so he didn't deserve the position over someone who's specialised in it and far better at the role.

Pigeonholing players into roles they don't play, just to 'fit' them in makes a mockery of the entire side.
Click to expand...

If an inside mid kicked 30 goals then at least they have a case. A couple of years ago they put an 11 goal inside mid on the HFF.

BTW: the selectors themselves are the mockery. There is no requirement from the AFL to even watch the games.

They get together a couple of times a year and look at Champion Data.
 
Shaucob_Burjan said:
NGL, it always peeved me that Robbie Gray got plunked at HF on AA sides when he was very clearly the top 1-2 inside mid in the comp.
Click to expand...
It shouldn’t.

Grey was always a forward / mid then mid / forward throughout his career.

I’d suggest the balance of the football world never saw Grey as a top 1-2 inside mid.

Take what would be considered his best season in 2014, his contemporaries in that AA squad are being picked and considered better pure inside mids than Grey, those being Selwood, Kennedy (Syd) GAJ

It’s his forward craft that has him in the starting side ahead of bench mids Pendlebury, Boak, Rockcliff and starting “wingers” Fyfe & Heppell

That’s not a knock on Grey, as I’d consider ( particularly in 2014 ) Grey to be the most valuable player in the League because of his ability to play the hybrid.
 


Brad Johnson put Dan Houston in the side after he missed a round aka better fill the quota of a player from a side that finished a game 2nd
 
Sirlemsip said:
You seem to think I'm saying JHF isn't a great player.
I agree with you that he is and he will probably continue to get better.

Is he better THIS YEAR than Bont, Heeney, Moore and others that will be fighting for Mid/HFF positions in the AA team - Not as things currently stand.
If he continues to perform at a high level in the next two games and the other big names taper off... then we can revisit this discussion.

Will JHF make the AA squad? Yes, I think he will (at least he should anyway)
Will JHF make the AA team? If it was picked now, probably not.

Who are the people that I would personally pick (right now) to fill 8 spots on the AA team that would go to players who would take up similar positions from an AA perspective (Centre, Rover, RR, HFF x2, Bench x3):
Bont, Heeney, Cripps, N.Daicos, Moore, Serong, Neale, Gulden.

Who else would I pick before JHF:
Sheezel, Warner, Young, Butters, McCluggage, Rankine, Treloar, Merrett.

Then there are other players around the same bracket as JHF (a couple of great games in R23 and R24 could get them in the discussion):
LDU, Brayshaw, Newcombe, Day, Greene, Rowell, Anderson, Yeo.
Click to expand...
Time to revisit the JHF discussion
Last 4 games of the season he has been brilliant & finally got some exposure
Kicked 6 goals in the last 3 games
Helped us secure 2nd spot
I know vics put more weight on blokes who get 30 cheap touches early season in dead rubbers but here is a bloke who turns it on when it matters
Eg contrast JHFs 2 goal, 20 possies, 5 clearance, 70% de game to another contender Serong who had 19 disposals, 3 points, 5 clearances @ 63% de
JHF stands up when it counts
 
Handyandy said:
Time to revisit the JHF discussion
Last 4 games of the season he has been brilliant & finally got some exposure
Kicked 6 goals in the last 3 games
Helped us secure 2nd spot
I know vics put more weight on blokes who get 30 cheap touches early season in dead rubbers but here is a bloke who turns it on when it matters
Eg contrast JHFs 2 goal, 20 possies, 5 clearance, 70% de game to another contender Serong who had 19 disposals, 3 points, 5 clearances @ 63% de
JHF stands up when it counts
Click to expand...

Yep, JHF is in my AA team now.

In terms of the lists I had before, he has definitely surpassed all of the people I had 'on the same level'.

I would now pick him over Merrett, McCluggage, Rankine, Serong and Young for sure.
 

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