List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread

[Hearts to hearts]

This weekend, Collingwood played a delisted St Kilda player, a school teacher from the country and a 26 year old who played VFL for 7 years. They won by a million.

If I hear more bullshit that we have to give long contracts to spuds because "they're the only blokes who'll want to play for us" I will fair dinkum spew up.

Yes. Those guys didn’t pick Collingwood - they were chosen, and they’d have been delighted to play for anyone who would pick them.

But it’s a false equivalence. They join that list and they do not have to be senior leaders in the senior side - Pendlebury and Moore and Sidebottom and Crisp and Howe and god knows how many others are there to do that. Even as older draftees they come in, learn the system in the VFL, and are ready to play their part when called on.

That is nothing like what we are going to market for. So far Logue looks like the only hit among a bunch of misses, but you can see what we are trying to bring in and it’s hard.

 

[Epictetus]

Yes. Those guys didn’t pick Collingwood - they were chosen, and they’d have been delighted to play for anyone who would pick them.

But it’s a false equivalence. They join that list and they do not have to be senior leaders in the senior side - Pendlebury and Moore and Sidebottom and Crisp and Howe and god knows how many others are there to do that. Even as older draftees they come in, learn the system in the VFL, and are ready to play their part when called on.

That is nothing like what we are going to market for. So far Logue looks like the only hit among a bunch of misses, but you can see what we are trying to bring in and it’s hard.

Respectfully, your error there I think is assuming I expect players like this to come in and drive win/loss. I do not. I understand they are spokes in a wheel and are allowed that space and time to contribute at Collingwood.

The equivalence - at least in my mind - is that these players and players like them are available each year and we have not been able to find them to just play. And I llterally mean just play and attempt to ensure it's not 19 year olds or vastly overpaid and over indexed mid 20's who have proven they are not good enough with AFL exposure.

And they are cheap and almost zero risk. They require 12 months, and next to no draft capital. And as you mentioned, they are almost always hungry to make the most of that chance. Versus a fellow on a 4 year, very lucrative contract who has no real incentive to do the work.

We've got it so wrong. It's not the reason we're not winning, but it's a big reason why we get belted and lack heart.

 

[Newbie Real Talk]

I like the look of our defense in 2-3 years time if we are still around.

Chom
Log
Dawson Jr
Dawson Sr
Goater
Archer
Bergman
Hardeman

Hell I could even find a roll for fisher in a defense with 5 other competent defenders.


Midfield-

Warlord
Sheezel (if he puts on 6-9kg)
Powell (if he puts on 6-9kg
McKercher

Our weakest group. We need a no.1 big bull and one or two more runners (preferably all above 6’2”)

Forwards-

Larkey
Duursma
Ford
Curtis
Harvey
George

The obvious hole is chf and a speedy small forward.

Rucks
X
Need depth, especially if Goad doesn’t come through.

Don’t think I missed anyone of note?
No one that will be on the list in 2-3 years anyhow.

A promising bunch with 3-4 massive holes to fill, and plenty off experience, endurance, strength and skill to gain for the lot of them.

This is a quality post. With all the negativity surrounding our side, it's good to see that I'm not the only one who sees a good future.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Respectfully, your error there I think is assuming I expect players like this to come in and drive win/loss. I do not. I understand they are spokes in a wheel and are allowed that space and time to contribute at Collingwood.

The equivalence - at least in my mind - is that these players and players like them are available each year and we have not been able to find them to just play. And I llterally mean just play and attempt to ensure it's not 19 year olds or vastly overpaid and over indexed mid 20's who have proven they are not good enough with AFL exposure.

And they are cheap and almost zero risk. They require 12 months, and next to no draft capital. And as you mentioned, they are almost always hungry to make the most of that chance. Versus a fellow on a 4 year, very lucrative contract who has no real incentive to do the work.

We've got it so wrong. It's not the reason we're not winning, but it's a big reason why we get belted and lack heart.

I agree with that part - felt a bit ill reading how Ben Reid found Richards coaching Wangaratta and thought he was natural footballer and great small forward, and it took two drafts to convince the Pies to pick him up. He’s not the only one and especially in that position I wish we could unearth a similar diamond in the rough.

But then I come back to how he probably only looks that good yesterday because it’s not just raw talent, he has trained in a very good system with a lot of great guides - I just don’t know how a talented player improves and learns to play a role in a winning setup if he comes to North, no matter where he got drafted.

 

[Epictetus]

I agree with that part - felt a bit ill reading how Ben Reid found Richards coaching Wangaratta and thought he was natural footballer and great small forward, and it took two drafts to convince the Pies to pick him up. He’s not the only one and especially in that position I wish we could unearth a similar diamond in the rough.

But then I come back to how he probably only looks that good yesterday because it’s not just raw talent, he has trained in a very good system with a lot of great guides - I just don’t know how a talented player improves and learns to play a role in a winning setup if he comes to North, no matter where he got drafted.

I don't disagree - and again, I do not think they or their ilk would be flying at Arden Street. But they are comparatively dirt cheap and risk free versus the players we've chosen to fill that role player list chunk who have been mostly expensive in every way AND can't contribute to improved performance.

 

[New_Roo]

If north get josh battle as a free agent then that affects any compo for zurhaar

Can't see Bull going anywhere... his best mate, inseparable shadow has committed to the unforeseeable future, surely he will follow suit... need him to sign up soon to end all rumours so we can focus on getting on the ins as opposed to any outs


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[LETSGOKANGAS]

This is a quality post. With all the negativity surrounding our side, it's good to see that I'm not the only one who sees a good future.

I’ll take a future on its own.

Im so bloody negative these days its actually spilling into my outside of football life.

Just know Im gorging on you positive forecast.

 

[Shinboner Supremacy]

Can't see Bull going anywhere... his best mate, inseparable shadow has committed to the unforeseeable future, surely he will follow suit... need him to sign up soon to end all rumours so we can focus on getting on the ins as opposed to any outs


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It doesn’t sound like his staying on Radio interviews and so fourth. But his played a big part in bringing Griff Logue over from WA and now going to depart?? Hope he sticks fat but honestly wont bother me if be leaves given it looks like his checked out!

 

[New_Roo]

This weekend, Collingwood played a delisted St Kilda player, a school teacher from the country and a 26 year old who played VFL for 7 years. They won by a million.

If I hear more bullshit that we have to give long contracts to spuds because "they're the only blokes who'll want to play for us" I will fair dinkum spew up.

They were playing west coast at home too....


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[New_Roo]

It doesn’t sound like his staying on Radio interviews and so fourth. But his played a big part in bringing Griff Logue over from WA and now going to depart?? Hope he sticks fat but honestly wont bother me if be leaves given it looks like his checked out!

Logue wasn't the one I was talking about though, more his ex flatmate. Think it's harsh too say he has checked out already.... probably more frustrated at the ball not coming down as often as he would like


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[Hearts to hearts]

They were playing west coast at home too....


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Not really at home.

 

[kool kangas]

I like the look of our defense in 2-3 years time if we are still around.

Chom
Log
Dawson Jr
Dawson Sr
Goater
Archer
Bergman
Hardeman

Hell I could even find a roll for fisher in a defense with 5 other competent defenders.


Midfield-

Warlord
Sheezel (if he puts on 6-9kg)
Powell (if he puts on 6-9kg
McKercher

Our weakest group. We need a no.1 big bull and one or two more runners (preferably all above 6’2”)

Forwards-

Larkey
Duursma
Ford
Curtis
Harvey
George

The obvious hole is chf and a speedy small forward.

Rucks
X
Need depth, especially if Goad doesn’t come through.

Don’t think I missed anyone of note?
No one that will be on the list in 2-3 years anyhow.

A promising bunch with 3-4 massive holes to fill, and plenty off experience, endurance, strength and skill to gain for the lot of them.

This is why we should go after McCluggage, he's a bull and loves a goal. he's 26 atm, is a Vic boy and while only 185cm can play taller if needed..He's also a Restricted free agent at the end of the year..Would be a perfect LDU replacement and if LDU stays would be a good foil for him as well..

 

[trueroo]

I think a number of our player should start specialist training now !
Sheezel , powell , curtis and of course phillips need to learn how to sprint NOW !

 

[jay317]

I think a number of our player should start specialist training now !
Sheezel , powell , curtis and of course phillips need to learn how to sprint NOW !

Can't teach speed unfortunately...

 

[Themanbun]

Can't teach speed unfortunately...

You absolutely can

 

[New_Roo]

Not really at home.

In Melbourne then


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[TennisPlayerAndy]

You absolutely can

You can improve technique.

But you’d be hard pressed to turn a tractor into a Ferrari.

 

[big_e]

We desperately need to find some cheaper, more mature role players in that 21-25 year old bracket. Players who can run and aren’t afraid to get their hands dirty.

After watching the Peel game yesterday we should be looking at a Will Brodie type, big body who tackles and can win clearances. He’d practically come for nothing. If we want to pay up a bit more than Neil Erasmus would be another, he was utterly dominant yesterday and should be playing AFL footy. Both of them can’t crack the Freo midfield and are behind the likes of Serong, Brayshaw, Fyfe, Johnson and O’Meara.

Josh Fahey and Max Gruzewski from GWS should also be on our radar, both are playing solid consistent footy for GWS reserves. Fahey is a hard running wingman who can really accumulate the footy.

Jaxon Binns for Carlton is a freakish runner but also finds stacks of the footy, has been racking it up at VFL level for 2 years now.

Ned Moyle/Caleb Graham/Connor Budarick would all be excellent additions to our depth and probably wouldn’t cost all that much. Moyle would put a lot of pressure on Xerri for the top ruck spot too.

I love your work RF08, so please don't take this personally, but this post reminds me of this post of yours from last year.

Pencil him in for round 1. Bails to be the more defensively minded winger, Stephens the more attacking. He is going to be given more freedom to play the role he was designed for.

In Sydney he was never allowed to play a free flowing attacking role as he was expected to be defensive midfield cover for the likes of Gulden, Parker and co when they pushed forward.

Going to be interesting to see if he can take his game to another level with a bit more freedom.

Narrator: he did not take his game to another level.

 

[trueroo]

Can't teach speed unfortunately...

Absolutely you can improve top speed and duration

 

[King Corey]

You can improve technique.

But you’d be hard pressed to turn a tractor into a Ferrari.

You know though, the whole standard of professionalism is so low you might be half a chance of doing that.

Any intel I've ever had on AFL clubs suggests the sheer ineptitude of head office is reflected in many other areas too. Both by clubs and individuals.

Why are you getting guys like Lazarro and McKay putting their own time into sprint coaching? Why isn't this standard?

There are so many unturned rocks in this sport that if you could sneak your way onto a list with a minimal level of talent, you could probably burn past half of them with a smart, disciplined plan.

AFL examples I'm aware of, some mentioned previously:

Players opting out of yoga because it was optional

Players studying S&C writing their own programs because the clubs' were so bad

Players laughing at novelty methods that coaches would pick up O/S and try to implement, only to die in the arse in a couple of weeks

It's pretty amateur hour even at the top from what little I've heard.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I love your work RF08, so please don't take this personally, but this post reminds me of this post of yours from last year.




Narrator: he did not take his game to another level.

It's all good mate. I've been wrong plenty of times before.

I had high hopes that Stephens was going to come in and have an instant impact, but it hasn't been the case at all. Finding his efforts so far very frustrating as he has all the athletic tools to be damaging winger.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

You know though, the whole standard of professionalism is so low you might be half a chance of doing that.

Any intel I've ever had on AFL clubs suggests the sheer ineptitude of head office is reflected in many other areas too. Both by clubs and individuals.

Why are you getting guys like Lazarro and McKay putting their own time into sprint coaching? Why isn't this standard?

There are so many unturned rocks in this sport that if you could sneak your way onto a list with a minimal level of talent, you could probably burn past half of them with a smart, disciplined plan.

AFL examples I'm aware of, some mentioned previously:

Players opting out of yoga because it was optional

Players studying S&C writing their own programs because the clubs' were so bad

Players laughing at novelty methods that coaches would pick up O/S and try to implement, only to die in the arse in a couple of weeks

It's pretty amateur hour even at the top from what little I've heard.

From the bit I’ve seen, it’s absolutely is at head office, and I assume at the clubs too. Run like your local amateur club but with big budgets.

 

[R00StaR]

Absolutely you can improve top speed and duration

Ive no doubt you can, by how much im not sure.
However theres a huge difference between raw pace and knowing when and how to use it. Theres plenty of AFL footballers who arent the quickest but just hit the contest at pace.
LDU is a good example, not the fastest but when he collects at pace with that side step of his good luck stopping him.

 

[big_e]

It's all good mate. I've been wrong plenty of times before.

I had high hopes that Stephens was going to come in and have an instant impact, but it hasn't been the case at all. Finding his efforts so far very frustrating as he has all the athletic tools to be damaging winger.

Cool. And it's not about you (and God knows I've been wrong heaps, too), and it's not even really about Dylan Stephens.

But we've just not made a success out of any fringe/VFL players in recent years. And that's not even considering the "have to pay them overs" argument. These guys aren't regulars for a reason.

 

[The Law]

Can't see Bull going anywhere... his best mate, inseparable shadow has committed to the unforeseeable future, surely he will follow suit... need him to sign up soon to end all rumours so we can focus on getting on the ins as opposed to any outs


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if that is the case it'd be nice if he actually put in a shift consistently and didn't hold the club hostage until he signs/doesn't sign. Personally I think he's off. Both his and LDU's attitude stinks. They've probably had enough.

This is why we should go after McCluggage, he's a bull and loves a goal. he's 26 atm, is a Vic boy and while only 185cm can play taller if needed..He's also a Restricted free agent at the end of the year..Would be a perfect LDU replacement and if LDU stays would be a good foil for him as well..

This is just pipe dream stuff at the minute. There is no way we can attract players like McCluggage. Not until we can actually sell them something besides a bag full of money. We got lucky with Logue imo. He seems like a different breed of animal. Rare. All we are going to get is the Stephens, tucker, fisher types at the moment. That might change if by some miracle we rattle off 4/5 wins before the end of the season and show some ticker.

I don't want us to draft old footballers like Parker either. We can't afford to be used as a superannuation bump. A place where they come in, cash a cheque, play a few good games, shrug their shoulders and inevitably ride off into the sunset.

The players need to be vetted intensely so we can see who are the Logue, Higgins, Waite, Greenwood, Sam Gibson and Josh Walker types (workhorses that hate to lose. leaders). And then we can weed out the Stephens, Polec and Stephenson types that just coast.