List management 101 (69?)

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Complete fraud. One positive out of his time with us is that his credibility is gone.

The godfather of the shittest, negative gameplan in football history combined with the biggest advantages from head office managed to win one flag and dined off it ever since.

Complete and utter charlatan.

 

[kool kangas]

Dawson was ok. But gee, Pink and Corr???? Come on man.

This is a new backline we just need to give it some time...If after 6-7 weeks its not working then yes its time for a change but until then l'm happy to see what happens...

 

[Liam Boy]

Taylor would make us four goals better on his own.

Taylor would indubitably be an upgrade on Corr but he also would've gotten beaten badly on many occasions with the quality of those forward entries. So many of our forward entries were one-dimensional "get it to Larkey no matter what" type kicks, and he looked like a million bucks intercepting those. It's a lot easier to read the play when there's one target and you + one of your mates can just mind him all day. If the shoe was on the other foot and he's one out against Hogan, Brown or Riccardi (since the other key backs are covering those other dangerous targets) and the kicker, under no pressure, puts it in the exact place he can't get to before his opponent, he's also going to get beaten most of the time.

I've said this before but it's not the 1980s anymore, footy isn't long kicks to a Full Forward vs. Full Back and the strongest wins. There's a reason midfielders are on so much money. It's easy to look at a replay where Toby Pink appears to be standing in a really stupid position, but if the kicker is under more pressure it's not a stupid position at all, the kicker makes it a stupid position by choosing a different one.

 

[WesternRoo]

Painful as it is to admit it, Terry Wallace was one of the first to say that North was about to go off a cliff - back in 2016. Unfortunately, he he never mentioned how high the cliff was…

Not sure the cliff was that high, but the ravine is f****** deep.

 

[hilly]

What was outside the box about those players you reckon hilly? Sellers couldn't have been more inside the box !

State league and to a lesser extent not in a team's best 22.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GoRoos2023]

Greenwood is a better player than he gets credit for. Especially as a defensive mid. Should be playing more when we complain about not having enough big mids in the side. Maj is cooked. i wanted to keep him to but his injuries were just too much by the looks of things. There are rumours about Williams extra curricular habits that might have contributed to his sacking too.

But ultimately it comes down to this. If we'd taken those steps would we have bottomed out? Then would we have had access to the young talent we have now or would we have stayed around mid table still in the same cycle of mediocrity because we didn't want to be on the bottom of the ladder? Yes its a gamble but nothing else we've done in the last 20 years has provided results



If I was in Port's position I'd have laughed at you and walked away. I'd have kept JHF's offer on the table if he sat out 2023 confident that no other club would pay that much for someone who gave the club they were drafted to so much trouble. People say the commitment they made to his family is more important but footy is a business and Port would say the only other way he gets that big money and salvages his reputation while playing at home is to stay at North in 2023. His family would just have to suck it up and they would.

The other element of this is that it seems the club wanted him out because he was a toxic influence on the playing group and coaching staff.



That's another hindsight call. Edwards was tall, dominating as an underager and what we needed. You say this but you'd have also traded Goldstein at this point, and not brought in CCJ. Where does that leave our rucks? Bottom line is from the three MSDs Rawling has had the first was poor but still an obvious selection, the second is starting to pay dividends now and the third has been at the club less than a year but is dynamic and looks like he could play the sort of football Clarkson is coaching us to play to a high level once he gets some AFL level fitness.



The year before Dawson played four games, averaged 15 disposals and 5 marks (IIRC) and provided plenty of run of the backline. And there was no way he was ready for AFL at that point. RHJ does have a long way to go but his best plays have very effective linking up from the backline and having multiple possessions in chains that bring the ball into the forward line.



Harvey is a small forward or can play that role. He can crumb goals and tackle, he's the same height as LT and he reads the play well. Paul Curtis was six feet tall when drafted, while he plays taller technically he was a small forward and at least 2 inches shorter than the likes of Ford, Sleevo and Zurhaar tho he's grown nearly an inch since. When Atu came to the club he was a small forward and looked better on the forward line than he ever did off HB. Again that decision was not on Rawlings but the incompetent coach.

Our key back issues go back to a decade ago but Logue, Corr and both Dawsons look like good decisions to me. Wil Dawson looks like a good draft pick. Modern backlines play to a system and the tall gorillas we let go - Walker and McKay were too slow upstairs to play those systems.



We need five or six mobile marking medium forwards for depth and we should also draft for talented players who can play in different positions, both Taylor and Stephenson have looked like not making it at times to the Sleevos credit he appears to have turned that around over the last 12-18 months. Zurhaar and Ford are both capable of playing in the middle and are bigger players (med forwards = big mids in height and size.) George is incredibly talented and our third pick in that draft, worth the risk for talent and has the body to be a big mid. Then add Greenwood, LDU and Thomas and we had a good mix of big and small mids at the last draft. Rawlings isn't responsible for what happened to Thomas.

Obviously the solution to all these small mids was to draft 1.79m Caleb Serong.

One final point... Rawlings is still alive, that means he breathes in and out so he must have some concept of Yin and Yang. That is what it refers to.



He is small but two paced. I have to admit that what I've seen in the last 3 months is disapppointing in terms of his urgency to cover ground and spread. But he is fast over 5-10m and often gets first hands on the ball in tight and at stoppages.

Mitchell wasn't even drafted in his first go. He went to Box Hill and was drafted off the back of hard work. At the same age as Phillips, with glandular fever to hold him back Mitchell's average disposals were lower than Phillips last year. He and Phillips are in similar places at the same point in their careers, like Phillips and Jy, LDU and Cunners. It remains to be seen whether Phillips makes it as a player let alone one as good as Mitchell but at this point from what he has shown its still reasonable to expect that to happen. The ball is in his court and if he works hard enough he will succeed.



When Corr arrived he looked like the perfect complement to an aging Tarrant and a young McKay. I still think he should be on our list.



Yeah I obviously completely disagree. Tho I don't think he's been perfect. Obviously chasing CCJ was an error and drafting Edwards and JHF were also mistakes.

It comes down to this imo:

Did we cut too hard or not in 2020/21. I think (with hindsight) we didn't, it was the right decision. We're not gonna know the answer to that till the end of next season. If our list is still a shambles then i'll happily call for Rawlings to go but right now I think its better than it has been since 2015/16. But losing Thomas hurts us alot.

On Dawson not getting games last year, the Club were really adamant we were going to treat JZ right on the way out.

The best place to protect him was playing him back. He kept Dawson out but we have been putting a lot of work into Kallum they rate him.

 

[chubbspeterson]

I'd be wary of trading 1st round picks with Tassie coming in. It'd have to be a seriously quality player coming in the door.
As for 2nd/3rd round picks I don't really have an issue with splitting/trading for multiple picks and/or player(s).
We might also have to make a hard decision on at least one out of Laz/Powell/Phillips at the end of this year in terms of trade.

We all pretty much know we need key defenders and forwards, a pressure crumbing forward (Daniels type), a lockdown defender with quick closing speed (ideally Idun/Quaynor types), a 190cm+ mid to go up against Cripps/Greene/Callaghan types (could it be Josh Smillie in the next draft or Zane in a few years?) and more skilled runners are always welcome (ideally Blakey/Gulden types).
This is of course easier said than done. A bit of luck is sometimes needed in terms of draft night and other teams moves/needs etc.

 

[WesternRoo]

I can't agree with this enough.

During the period of Geoff Walsh leaving the club at the end of 2016, to Hood taking over as president in 2022, we were the worst ran club by a large margin.

We were never going to turn things around with names like Buckley, Amarfio, Luff, Noble, and McPherson in charge.

You can include names like Scott, Shaw and Roos.

Gavin Brown needs a mention too.

Rawlings get smashed from pillar to post in these threads (with justification too), but we seem to miss the bloke who headed up development across a 10 year period.

During Brown’s tenure, next to no players became A graders (or B graders) from a heap of first and second round selections.

Im guessing 30 - 40 top 40 picks were drafted (or recruited from other clubs) and then delisted during his reign.

 

[Uncle_Leo]

You can include names like Scott, Shaw and Roos.

Gavin Brown needs a mention too.

Rawlings get smashed from pillar to post in these threads (with justification too), but we seem to miss the bloke who headed up development across a 10 year period.

During Brown’s tenure, next to no players became A graders (or B graders) from a heap of first and second round selections.

Im guessing 30 - 40 top 40 picks were drafted (or recruited from other clubs) and then delisted during his reign.

Gavin Brown took over at the start of November 2013

Here is every player drafted up until 2020, I've put ticks or crosses next to each one I thought was good or bad, weighting on where they were picked and what we got out of them

Some still unknown. Nearly all of 2020 still unknown is incredibly alarming in 2024 and our picks in the 30's and 40's and their development has been disgusting

2013

National Draft

Luke McDonald - pick 8
Trent Dumont - pick 30
Ben Brown - pick 47

Rookie Draft

Joel Tippet - pick 8
Kayne Turner - pick 25

2014

National Draft

Sam Durdin - Pick 16
Dan Nielson - pick 25
Ed Vickers-Willis - pick 36

Rookie Draft

Braydon Preuss - pick 15
Will Fordham - pick 33

2015

National Draft

Ben McKay - Pick 21
Ryan Clarke - pick 31
Mitch Hibberd - pick 33
Corey Wagner - pick 43
Declan Mountford - pick 60

Rookie Draft

Farren Ray - pick 15


2016

National Draft

Jy Simpkin - Pick 12
Declan Watson - pick 34
Josh Williams - pick 36
Nick Larkey - pick 73


Rookie Draft

Cameron Zurhaar - pick 11
Oscar Junker - pick 28
Matthew Taylor - pick 43


2017

National Draft

Luke Davies-Uniacke - Pick 4
Will Walker - pick 23
Kyron Hayden - pick 62
Tristan Xerri - pick 72 ?
Billy Hartung - pick 77


Rookie Draft

Tom Murphy - pick 4
Gordon Narrier - pick 20

2018

National Draft

Tarryn Thomas - Pick 8
Curtis Taylor - pick 46 ?
Bailey Scott - pick 49
Joel Crocker - pick 69

Rookie Draft

Tom McKenzie - pick 10
Tom Wilkinson - pick 41

Mid season Draft

Lachie Hosie - Pick 5

2019

National Draft

Charlie Comben - pick 31 ?
Jack Mahoney - pick 31
Flynn Perez - pick 35

2020

National Draft

Will Phillips - Pick 3 ?
Tom Powell - pick 13 ?
Charlie Lazzaro - pick 36 ?
Phoenix Spicer - pick 42
Eddie Ford- pick 56 ?

Rookie Draft

Patrick Walker - pick 2
Connor Menadue - pick 18

Mid season Draft

Jacob Edwards - Pick 1
Charlie Ham - Pick 16

 

[DesertRoo]

Positives we were in no man’s land in terms of run, I think that’s been our biggest focus in recruitment rather then just mids, it’s players who can run both ways. I think we can finally see some headway here after decades of being the worst in the comp.

Negatives, we’ve got too many mid sized forwards and little to no big bodies mids or small forwards.
Hopefully one or two of Zurhaar/Ford/Dursma/Curtis/George/Goater can make the transition into that midfield role, it would change the dynamic if they do.

We’ve got a massive gamble still on that second tall forward/ruck relief spot with CCJ Marley or Sellers but what’s the bet Clarko makes us all look stupid when Goad comes on and plays tandem with Xerri.

I still think 2 small forwards is what we lack most.

 

[remfan101]

My biggest concern is that, for all of our 'obsession with midfielders', I still don't think we have the makings of a premiership-winning midfield. Losing Thomas and JHF has absolutely gutted our top-end clearance stocks to the point where its LDU or bust. I like Simpkin and Wardlaw but neither have that kind of class. Sheezel hasn't played much as an inside mid and is probably better on the outside, Phillips and Powell are B-grade at best; Lazzaro D-grade, McKercher won't be ready for years, and thats it.

 

[Cyber_punk]

This thread really delivers on the navel gazing side of things in all of us. We all need “nourishment”! Beat Freo FFS, North. Release us from this angsty, seven circles of hell that we’ve sentenced to for so long. In future years, this time will be referred to as “North’s Inferno”.

When we're good again I want us to remember every club who thrashed us and make a note to give it back to them x 3.

Call it the revenge tour.

 

[Ichiro #51]

I can't agree with this enough.

During the period of Geoff Walsh leaving the club at the end of 2016, to Hood taking over as president in 2022, we were the worst ran club by a large margin.

We were never going to turn things around with names like Buckley, Amarfio, Luff, Noble, and McPherson in charge.

This is the one lesson that needs to be remembered above all others.

Do not go cheap on the leadership roles. That’s why we are we are and have been where we’ve been.

Thankfully we’ve got a great team in place with Sonja, Jen, Clarko and Viney. That gives me hope for the future.

 

[Only Forwards]

Dear god we need to win a game of football.

 

[WesternRoo]

My biggest concern is that, for all of our 'obsession with midfielders', I still don't think we have the makings of a premiership-winning midfield. Losing Thomas and JHF has absolutely gutted our top-end clearance stocks to the point where its LDU or bust. I like Simpkin and Wardlaw but neither have that kind of class. Sheezel hasn't played much as an inside mid and is probably better on the outside, Phillips and Powell are B-grade at best; Lazzaro D-grade, McKercher won't be ready for years, and thats it.

Agree with this.

Thomas is a massive loss in this area. We really need to inject Dursmaa in there over the coming years and hope like hell Phillips and Powell step up.

Zurhaar needs to spend more time in there. We have George and Ford who can cover his current role.

 

[WesternRoo]

Gavin Brown took over at the start of November 2013

Here is every player drafted up until 2020, I've put ticks or crosses next to each one I thought was good or bad, weighting on where they were picked and what we got out of them

Some still unknown. Nearly all of 2020 still unknown is incredibly alarming in 2024 and our picks in the 30's and 40's and their development has been disgusting

2013

National Draft

Luke McDonald - pick 8
Trent Dumont - pick 30
Ben Brown - pick 47

Rookie Draft

Joel Tippet - pick 8
Kayne Turner - pick 25

2014

National Draft

Sam Durdin - Pick 16
Dan Nielson - pick 25
Ed Vickers-Willis - pick 36

Rookie Draft

Braydon Preuss - pick 15
Will Fordham - pick 33

2015

National Draft

Ben McKay - Pick 21
Ryan Clarke - pick 31
Mitch Hibberd - pick 33
Corey Wagner - pick 43
Declan Mountford - pick 60

Rookie Draft

Farren Ray - pick 15


2016

National Draft

Jy Simpkin - Pick 12
Declan Watson - pick 34
Josh Williams - pick 36
Nick Larkey - pick 73


Rookie Draft

Cameron Zurhaar - pick 11
Oscar Junker - pick 28
Matthew Taylor - pick 43


2017

National Draft

Luke Davies-Uniacke - Pick 4
Will Walker - pick 23
Kyron Hayden - pick 62
Tristan Xerri - pick 72 ?
Billy Hartung - pick 77


Rookie Draft

Tom Murphy - pick 4
Gordon Narrier - pick 20

2018

National Draft

Tarryn Thomas - Pick 8
Curtis Taylor - pick 46 ?
Bailey Scott - pick 49
Joel Crocker - pick 69

Rookie Draft

Tom McKenzie - pick 10
Tom Wilkinson - pick 41

Mid season Draft

Lachie Hosie - Pick 5

2019

National Draft

Charlie Comben - pick 31 ?
Jack Mahoney - pick 31
Flynn Perez - pick 35

2020

National Draft

Will Phillips - Pick 3 ?
Tom Powell - pick 13 ?
Charlie Lazzaro - pick 36 ?
Phoenix Spicer - pick 42
Eddie Ford- pick 56 ?

Rookie Draft

Patrick Walker - pick 2
Connor Menadue - pick 18

Mid season Draft

Jacob Edwards - Pick 1
Charlie Ham - Pick 16

Gee that’s awful and little wonder we are where we are.

I reckon our drafting in the 2010’s has been worse than the 2000’s which we all largely regarded as terrible.

 

[tazaa]

There has been many big mistakes, but the two which stick out most.:

1. When one of the scouts or recruitment staff clearly had too much influence regarding QLD football. On paper burning picks 34 & 36 doesn't look horrendous, but they were doomed from the start. There were some very well publicised blue chip recruits taken around them (Shai Bolton

29

Shai Bolton

Age

25

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

, Sean Darcy

4

Sean Darcy

Age

26

Ht

203cm

Wt

111kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

28.8

5star

D

6.8

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

20.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

6.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

32.0

5star

, Brennan Cox

36

Brennan Cox

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

182.8

3star

D

12.3

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

182.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

, Jack Graham

34

Jack Graham

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

6.3

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

D

14.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

7.0

5star

CL

3.2

5star

...) Williams and Watson personified that recruiting period. Whilst Will Walker

27

Will Walker

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

4star

CL

0.8

3star

No current season stats available

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

4star

CL

0.8

3star

was another promising prospect, he was a massive risk in what was thought of as a loaded second round (which has proven to be right), with Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

, Balta, Ryan, Daniels, de Koning and Fritsch all taken immediately after him.

2. The Polec trade. Recruiting staff completely misread the right course of action when dealt a top 10 academy prospects who's bid range is close to your R1 pick. Instead of trying to get ahead of your natural pick and double up on talent. The club took the opposite strategy of looking to burn it on the best mercenary they could afford with that pick. Not only did this strategy dilute the pick value at the trade table, but we did it in a historically strong draft. Im not going to pretend Thomas was a bad pick, he was picked in the correct range, however, we had more than enough ammunition to walk away from that draft with Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

and Tarryn Thomas

26

Tarryn Thomas

Age

24

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.3

5star

CL

0.9

3star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.2

4star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

0.4

3star

.

The Polec/Thomas deal will likely come up regularly in worst trades of all time lists for the next few decades.

3. The Powell trade was Russian Roullete that Rawlings lost. A lesson in the pitfalls of future pick trading. Tommy is a promising young player, but he's not going to eclipse Serong or Pickett. We diluted our pick into a lower one, into a weaker draft, completely destroyed by covid. The timing could not have been worse.

Well said

 

[scottywiper]

Yeah, Rawlings has done a fine job

 

[Zondor]

Yeah, Rawlings has done a fine job

Aren’t you “excited” with the job he has done? I find it “fascinating” that anybody wouldn’t think otherwise. :stern look

 

[scottywiper]

He's brainiac, brainiac, oh no.

 

[Zondor]

Dear god we need to win a game of football.

That we do. But when will the next win come? Hawthorn IMO our best chance in the next few weeks. Lose that and oh boy! :stern look

 

[Merlin007]

There has been many big mistakes, but the two which stick out most.:

1. When one of the scouts or recruitment staff clearly had too much influence regarding QLD football. On paper burning picks 34 & 36 doesn't look horrendous, but they were doomed from the start. There were some very well publicised blue chip recruits taken around them (Shai Bolton, Sean Darcy, Brennan Cox, Jack Graham...) Williams and Watson personified that recruiting period. Whilst Will Walker was another promising prospect, he was a massive risk in what was thought of as a loaded second round (which has proven to be right), with Tim Kelly, Balta, Ryan, Daniels, de Koning and Fritsch all taken immediately after him.

2. The Polec trade. Recruiting staff completely misread the right course of action when dealt a top 10 academy prospects who's bid range is close to your R1 pick. Instead of trying to get ahead of your natural pick and double up on talent. The club took the opposite strategy of looking to burn it on the best mercenary they could afford with that pick. Not only did this strategy dilute the pick value at the trade table, but we did it in a historically strong draft. Im not going to pretend Thomas was a bad pick, he was picked in the correct range, however, we had more than enough ammunition to walk away from that draft with Ben King and Tarryn Thomas.

The Polec/Thomas deal will likely come up regularly in worst trades of all time lists for the next few decades.

3. The Powell trade was Russian Roullete that Rawlings lost. A lesson in the pitfalls of future pick trading. Tommy is a promising young player, but he's not going to eclipse Serong or Pickett. We diluted our pick into a lower one, into a weaker draft, completely destroyed by covid. The timing could not have been worse.

1 and 2 are spot on, but 3 needs some fine tuning - Rawlings didn't do the future trade in 2019, he was contractually bound to West Coast and didn't start in the role until December, after the 2019 draft

 

[Fart Cummings]

big mature bodies would be handy! feel like we always have the skinniest looking teams! they still look like kids 5 years after drafting most of them

 

[koshari]

We needed your inside knowledge then.

Seriousely though its Hardley inside knowledge , Might be a big area Gippsland but there is a lot of interaction between people from sale right through to Drouin, Lots of feeder clubs providing kids to the Power so locally people get to know who can play and the word get around, then more people pay more attention to said player.

This is what really disappointing me about our drafting in that dreadful Luff period. recruiters need to go watch the way kids play rather than just looking at a screen full of data, and the date is skewed anyway when you take Willem Duursma for example who played defence and midfield minutes, who do you compare his stats to?? Using Mahony for example did anyone go and watch a block of his junior/rep footy and make a comparison against other kids at the same age?? possibly they did but in the 80 odd games he played for us i didn't see anything of any real standout to justify his nickname. same could be said for the Queensland recruits. At least taking a punt on blokes like Ahern you could actually see talent disregarding the fact his desire obviously fell off. Edwards is another one, i think we were blinded by the hype but other than potentially being a tall did any one see any actual talent on him??,

 

[koshari]

big mature bodies would be handy! feel like we always have the skinniest looking teams! they still look like kids 5 years after drafting most of them

the caviet is they re generally slow and have the agility of the queen mary.