List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[phantom13]

Nah can't agree - I'm absolutely certain that Bassat can pick up the phone and ring Andrew Dillon and he will told exactly what Band 1 compo would involve.

No matter what anyone thinks of the AFL, the idea that clubs operate in the dark over UFA compo is tin hat deep state conspiracy theory territory.

We will know exactly whether the Hawks offer gets us Band 1 or not.

Maybe, im not sure of that plus the AFL have every excuse to move the goalposts with the revised CBA.

I think the AFL has never publically offered what the terms are so that they can be flexible and ensure that some clubs dont get it. I dont even really have an issue with that. Stops (or at least makes it hard) collusion.

On top of that we might have ****ed up the negotiation with Josh and hes now wiling to leave for less money, i think that seems very unlikely but its also not impossible.

The club might have done everything within its power (i think they probably have) they might have done everything right (id suggest weve probably not but i dont know that for sure) and we STILL get ****ed.

 

[EconomicDecline]

If Battle stays, great.

If he goes in order to secure his families financial security (which the future is looking dire for his kids peers), good on him.


Now can we stop running in circles about the same bloody topic and turn to something new for a little while at least?

 

[gringo2011]

I don’t worry about players after they’ve left st Kilda. This much I’ll say about battle I like him as a player but I think both josh and hawthorn will live to regret this move. I know I’ll now have all the hawks are great and never get anything wrong crew coming for me but imo it’s no great coup. Only makes sense to me if you remove Barrass from the picture.

They win a flag every 7 years on average. If we rebuild we will hit an era where teams like North and GC will dominate due to ridiculous competitive balance measures that should build powerhouse lists. He’s unlikely to be the one regretting it.

 

[botts]

It seems like Richmond will end up with as many as 6 first round picks if they let go of Baker, Bolton and Rioli. Wonder if we could snag another pick (if they have one around the 6-10 mark) and trade our future first for it?
Also If Battle is a Band 1 Compo would we entertain it for Rachele + change ? Very much on the nose at the crows...has talent to burn (kicked 30 odd goals this year and has the 2nd most goal assists for the team) might need some guidance from RTB.

Not a chance. There is a small forward at Carlton that has kicked more and is out of contract. I would go after him before

 

[gringo2011]

Christ that's a bit nasty , so you would never leave your job for a better job or more pay

I call you full of poo

**** him. It’s not a normal job.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Chill people - do the maths.

The 660 primary listed AFL players were paid a total of $281M last year. Of those players, only 34 earned more than $900K which equals 5% of all players.

Band 1 compo only applies to the top 5% and that before you start factoring in the facts that Battle is 25 yrs old, it looks like a 6 year contract - so Band 1 is a certainty.

 

[gubby88]

Some guy from Traralgon is getting raided by ASIO tomorrow

so just the usual for down here then?

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[gringo2011]

Not sure we are pushing him. We've had a big money contract in front of him all season. He just doesnt want to sign it.

I think we’re telling him to go for the picks and won’t move on what we offer. Clubs get deals done if they want to.

 

[stavro#4]

Other than the fact they cant actually know for sure, have ****ed up just about every aspect of the sport for most of their 150 years and have zero incentive to tell you if they have anyway.

Righto.

This is EXACTLY what i mean when i say the delusion is real

"Might not be band 1, cause theres a whole stack of things we cant control"

"NAH ITS BAND ONE CAUSE I KNOW PEOPLE"

To say that suggesting it might not band 1 is negative viewing is stupid, its just realism.

I hope it is and i hope weve done it right, theres a decent chance we havent and then even if we have, might not fall our way.

But dont worry guys, Stav said it in June and he knows trainers.

In June you carried on about not getting band 1 when I started posting again and mentioned it.

Twomey came out with it and you had nothing to moan about until this speculative piece from Ralph & Clark.

now that’s fine. You don’t want to believe what I’m saying.

But the piece mentions that the offer needs to be 900k to achieve band 1.

It makes no mention of any other relevant trigger points.

The EXACT SAME ARTICLE says so the saints will increase their offer to either get band 1 or retain.

Yes, we are aware that he is unrestricted and can do as he pleases. But his agency effectively said he wants to do the best thing by his family.

Furthermore. The same articles were written about McKay this time last year and will be written for weeks to come about Battle. Just apply common ****ing sense for a change.

Also I get it. You wet the bed most nights and twice on the days we play football. But if you don’t like what I’m posting. Just hit the ignore button.

 

[BrutThough]

I think we’re telling him to go for the picks and won’t move on what we offer. Clubs get deals done if they want to.

There is genuinely no proof or report that even suggests we are pushing him out the door. Every report has been saying we want him to stay and had a big contract on front of him for months that he has chosen to not sign.

Clubs can only get a deal done if the player wants to stay.

 

[The_Steadier]

If we get band 2 then that will be a one way love.

Him and his family would most certainly not be welcome through the doors of moorabbin for a long time.

If he only gets band 2- it's our now departed former list manager Gags who has screwed us.

He let an obvious talent and clear best 22 player enter his free agent year not in the top 25% of earners at the club for the preceding year.
Therefore battle became an unrestricted free agent, rather than a restricted free agent.

Horrific list management to not backend battle's current contract (and/or shuffle money in top 25% players contracts) to make it look on paper like he was in our top 25% of earners.

This kind of list management 101 is why you never hear of any half decent (ie best 22) free agents being unrestricted at 25.

There would be heaps that hit free agency at 25- but aren't in the top 25% earners at their club.
But every other list manager seems to be competent enough to avoid the mess we are in- where battle can walk if he wants and we are powerless.

If he leaves and we get band 2- it's a disaster- we're desperately trying to get MORE top players in his exact age bracket.
To LOSE one when you are trying to add more is a list management disaster.

But it's not the AFLs fault, or Battle's fault or hawthorns fault.

Letting him get UFA status (and therefore zero leverage to force a trade if the compo sucks) is OUR fault.

 

[BrutThough]

Anyone claiming to know the intimate details about the FA formula is talking out of their arse.

 

[phantom13]

In June you carried on about not getting band 1 when I started posting again and mentioned it.

Twomey came out with it and you had nothing to moan about until this speculative piece from Ralph & Clark.

now that’s fine. You don’t want to believe what I’m saying.

But the piece mentions that the offer needs to be 900k to achieve band 1.

It makes no mention of any other relevant trigger points.

The EXACT SAME ARTICLE says so the saints will increase their offer to either get band 1 or retain.

Yes, we are aware that he is unrestricted and can do as he pleases. But his agency effectively said he wants to do the best thing by his family.

Furthermore. The same articles were written about McKay this time last year and will be written for weeks to come about Battle. Just apply common ****ing sense for a change.

Also I get it. You wet the bed most nights and twice on the days we play football. But if you don’t like what I’m posting. Just hit the ignore button.

two things.

1 - i never moaned about shit, in fact i supported that the club would do everything in its power to make sure it is band 1, pretty sure i even mentioned support for the current admin. I would RATHER keep Josh but this is some revisionist bullshit, pretty typical from you
2- AGAIN hes a UFA you dolt, we can offer him the whole ****ing salary cap and he can still leave

For someone so well connected you know SFA.

 

[stavro#4]

two things.

1 - i never moaned about shit, in fact i supported that the club would do everything in its power to make sure it is band 1, pretty sure i even mentioned support for the current admin. I would RATHER keep Josh but this is some revisionist bullshit, pretty typical from you
2- AGAIN hes a UFA you dolt, we can offer him the whole ****ing salary cap and he can still leave

For someone so well connected you know SFA.

I literally said he is an UFA.

The point you imbecile was that he isn’t walking away from an additional 50-100k a year if we up our offer.

And yes you did moan. Along with Gringo about how stupid this entire scenario is and how we should move heaven and earth to make him stay.

 

[gringo2011]

If he only gets band 2- it's our now departed former list manager Gags who has screwed us.

He let an obvious talent and clear best 22 player enter his free agent year not in the top 25% of earners at the club for the preceding year.
Therefore battle became an unrestricted free agent, rather than a restricted free agent.

Horrific list management to not backend battle's current contract (and/or shuffle money in top 25% players contracts) to make it look on paper like he was in our top 25% of earners.

This kind of list management is why you never hear of any half decent (ie best 22) free agents being unrestricted at 25.

There would be heaps that hit free agency at 25- but aren't in the top 25% earners at their club.
But every other list manager seems to be competent enough to avoid the mess we are in- where battle can walk if he wants and we are powerless.

Something like 25 out of contract at once too.

 

[phantom13]

I literally said he is an UFA.

The point you imbecile was that he isn’t walking away from an additional 50-100k a year if we up our offer.

And yes you did moan. Along with Gringo about how stupid this entire scenario is and how we should move heaven and earth to make him stay.

Yet you think us upping his offer forces him to stay.

Go ask the trainers how UFAs work mate, maybe theyll be able to help you wrap your head around it.

NOPE, made very clear i think hes worth a mil a year, the club should offer a mil a year to ensure we get band 1 but also, can see the logic provided we net band 1 or keep him.

Might be confusing me with someone else, you do know SO many people after all.

 

[Captain Paddy]

The club is pushing him. I hope it ****s up on them just so we learn a hard lesson. Otherwise next year it will be Marshall and Wilkie trying to get back into the draft. At some point they have to start moving forward or there won’t be anyone left who gives a shit.

How are they pushing him, he literally could just accept any offer we put to him.

 

[MrFoster]

two things.

1 - i never moaned about shit, in fact i supported that the club would do everything in its power to make sure it is band 1, pretty sure i even mentioned support for the current admin. I would RATHER keep Josh but this is some revisionist bullshit, pretty typical from you
2- AGAIN hes a UFA you dolt, we can offer him the whole ****ing salary cap and he can still leave

For someone so well connected you know SFA.

To be fair, you and Gringo have moaned about losing Battle continously from the very start.. And Starv was the one that has been consistent and transparent, Starv is an ITK, he tell us as he hears it, things can change behind the scenes, to hang it on Starv is unfair I think.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Anyone claiming to know the intimate details about the FA formula is talking out of their arse.

"The key to the formula is a ranking system, in which every player in the AFL aged 25 or older is placed in order, based on the size of their (guaranteed) contract.

The highest-paid players are ranked at 100 points, the lowest at 0. The AFL then allocates up to 12 additional points for a player’s age.

At 25 (as of October 31), a player receives the maximum of 12 points, a 26-year-old earns another 10 points, 27-year-olds gain another 8, 28 brings 6 and so forth, with a 30-year-old worth just 2 extra points.

Players older than 30 earn no points. Under this system, thus, the maximum a player can receive is 112 points.

AFL sources say that the age of a player is important, because two fewer points might see a free agent slide 10 or so placings in the rankings, when they are paid the same money."

 

[stavro#4]

Yet you think us upping his offer forces him to stay.

Go ask the trainers how UFAs work mate, maybe theyll be able to help you wrap your head around it.

NOPE, made very clear i think hes worth a mil a year, the club should offer a mil a year to ensure we get band 1 but also, can see the logic provided we net band 1 or keep him.

Might be confusing me with someone else, you do know SO many people after all.

He hasn’t left yet

His intention may be to leave.

So we up the offer and his agent continues to negotiate with both parties.

You know the same article that has you pissing your parties outlines this.

Anyway, I’m just going to refrain from engaging with you. You are a different breed of special around here. Must be your era of mods.

The the newer ones aren’t broken like you

 

[gringo2011]

I literally said he is an UFA.

The point you imbecile was that he isn’t walking away from an additional 50-100k a year if we up our offer.

And yes you did moan. Along with Gringo about how stupid this entire scenario is and how we should move heaven and earth to make him stay.

Calm down Flaps. You are getting irrational again. You need to get off the booze.

 

[Joffaboy]

I think we’re telling him to go for the picks and won’t move on what we offer. Clubs get deals done if they want to.

Only one pick and that may be band 2. Really not worth pushing him out if it was for a shitty pick.

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[Munga]

Why the hell would we chair off a guy for leaving the club

wtf

Yeah probably a dumb comment by me. But I'd still want to clap him off, he's served the club. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Is it weird that I'm not hurt by this? Can't say that I've felt this way before... It's not like Cripps being a crybaby going back to WA.

I don't want him to go, a very solid player in his prime and not a bad word to be said about him. They don't grow on trees. Not sure why I'm chilled about it.

 

[gringo2011]

I just can’t wait for the year to be over and get the summer off. This club is a drainer.

 

[stfan]

The bolded feels important.

To be clear im not saying we will or wont get band 1 and in spite of my previous post i think this administration is more cluey than many previous ones BUT.

Given our history and the fact the AFL isnt really clear about what triggers it (theres no set criteria we can all hang our hat on) its staggering you and others are so cocksure it will happen.

Oh the AFL is very clear on what triggers it, it is what ever they feel like stretching to one way or the other, which is why they do not make their own internal guidelines public.

They have looked on the generous side for Dees, Dons and North, but for whatever reason the AFL always seems to look on the less generous side when the Saints are involved.

Poor fixturing (as in FIXed against us, only only team with consecutive really short breaks combined interstate trips this year, no special games), shocking Stadium deal that we were forced into, changing NGA the only year we would gain a Top 10 NGA player etc).

The Battle deal is in the Ballpark for Band 1. But the AFL can just an easily give to us as not.

Given our lack of Father Sons and top NGA players gained at a discount, you would think that they could be generous to at least this time.

I mean despite North self-destructing by deliberately getting rid of a bunch of older capable players so that they could tank, the AFL has thrown a raft of pick benefits at North, most of them just free hits.