List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Leap of Faith]

Bidding war for Membrey might be the best chance. Doubt we get anything for the others but we'll see

Members is an UFA. I think he can go where he likes and we don't anything back wherever he goes.

 

[Sully111]

Houston is an absolute gun. Would 100% give pick 8 for him

Right on 2ballz

Btw... have you met the poster, schlong? It would be interesting to see how the two of you get along. Have a feeling you'd hit it off.

 

[BrutThough]

Members is an UFA. I think he can go where he likes and we don't anything back wherever he goes.

We might get compensation in return if the contract is good enough.

 

[The Punter]

On stoppages... I think you can succeed without being exceptional at them, but it's hard when you are awful at them.

I think our issues are more related to quality of clearance won and quality of clearance conceded. We had the second fewest clearances this year but conceded the second fewest (we try to play a low stoppage game).

 

[St Neil]

Swimming against the tide but I'd be filthy if we gave up 43 for Macrae, as it stands. The Dogs have trashed his trade value and should be thankful just to get his salary off the books. Without a fourth rounder that pick has more value to us than meets the eye. Maybe turn it into a couple of picks in the 50s and offer one of those.

Maybe they give us a later pick back.

He is effectively a salary dump.

 

[Joffaboy]

Members is an UFA. I think he can go where he likes and we don't anything back wherever he goes.

Was clarifiedthat he is a ufa for every so we can't match, but we do get compo.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sauce_head]

Might be worth a few people having a bit of a look at our results with Clark in the team vs him without.

Or our clearances when he attends a stoppage vs when he doesn't

Or our score for vs against when he is on the ground vs not.

With a cap on the number of rotations and a largely super fit side, Clark having lower time on ground and being used as a high impact player is completely fine.

The way he is being asked to play- intense bursts of repeat contest work at the coalface- is as responsible for his TOG% as any perceived lack of fitness.

People used to say he was too weak, now he isn't fit enough. Neither are accurate.

Do you have the data already?!

 

[The_Steadier]

we try to play a low stoppage game

Not a sustainable strategy for winning games when it matters in september.

Playing a low stoppage game is a bandaid fix to the root problem.

Same goes for Marshalls hack clearances- another bandaid fix for the same root problem- our crap midfield.

Bandaids aren't fixes.

We will never rise beyond midtable mediocrity at best until we stop using bandaids and thinking they are acceptable.

They aren't if we are serious about winning a flag before the likes of sincs, steele, marshall, wilkie retire.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

In terms of the Houston debate…

Who would u rather right now… hill or serong?

Stick to the drafts lads

 

[Saints TV]

Not a sustainable strategy for winning games when it matters in september.

Playing a low stoppage game is a bandaid fix to the root problem.

Same goes for Marshalls hack clearances- another bandaid fix for the same root problem- our crap midfield.

Bandaids aren't fixes.

We will never rise beyond midtable mediocrity at best until we stop using bandaids and thinking they are acceptable.

They aren't if we are serious about winning a flag before the likes of sincs, steele, marshall, wilkie retire.

When it matters in September we'll have a midfield that's quality and not what it is now. Ross wants to win every game so if that means playing a low stoppage game because he knows the ability of the mids at his disposal, that's what he'll do. The way we play now, with the mids we have now, is not what you'll see when we make finals again.

The club are well aware of the issue. Mids, mids and more mids. Plus some ruck assistance for Ro.

 

[ThomasR]

We might get compensation in return if the contract is good enough.

It was a while ago but Swans got Band 3 (mid second rounder) for Malceski as a 30yo UFA (3 year contract) so it's possible. Bodes well that he has a couple of suitors. Band 4 would be a dream result but the "formula" might even itself out if we get Band 1 for Battle.

 

[ThomasR]

In terms of the Houston debate…

Who would u rather right now… hill or serong?

Stick to the drafts lads

Fischer McAsey

 

[Significant]

In terms of the Houston debate…

Who would u rather right now… hill or serong?

Stick to the drafts lads

I hate this revisionist stuff. Hindsight is great because you can make it whatever you want it to be. What's to say we pick Serong and he gets 5 concussions in his first year? Or asks for a trade after his 4th year? It's all ifs and buts

 

[Sully111]

In terms of the Houston debate…

Who would u rather right now… hill or serong?

Stick to the drafts lads

both

 

[Saint Ray]

Membrey will be for free he is a delisted FA

unrestricted free agent is actually what you mean.

 

[The_Steadier]

When it matters in September we'll have a midfield that's quality and not what it is now. Ross wants to win every game so if that means playing a low stoppage game because he knows the ability of the mids at his disposal, that's what he'll do. The way we play now, with the mids we have now, is not what you'll see when we make finals again.

The club are well aware of the issue. Mids, mids and more mids. Plus some ruck assistance for Ro.

I hear what you're saying- but the level of urgency by which we are trying to fix our midfield is the problem.

For years now we've been well aware of the issue.
But our response has been baby steps- being satisfied to chase impossible unicorns like degoey etc- and then settling for bargain bin dumpster diving at guys like Dow.

Why have we been taking baby steps?
Because we have this mentality that 'it's not too bad'- because rubbish bandaid fixes (like roma hacking it fwd and playing a low stoppage game in non finals) paper over the cracks.

We are on a road to nowhere without taking proper (non baby) steps to addressing our midfield.

sincs, marshall, wilkie, steele, wood... all are knocking on the door of 30.
We need to stop taking baby steps and being happy with dow level guys before they are ALL past their peak.

 

[Minga]

In terms of the Houston debate…

Who would u rather right now… hill or serong?

Stick to the drafts lads

Agreed, but it’s not exactly the strongest point; Hill has been a wonderful addition in a footballing sense.

Coming into his 5th season with the Saints now and just signed another multi year deal contract.

Rarely injured, provides a point of difference, has more premiership experience than 99% of current players & is a mentor to many of our younger players, especially our younger First Nations players I’d imagine.

Not to mention, he’s just a good player, with elite attributes and durability. One of the few players who always seems to be smothering kicks.

I hold my reservations on his character outside of footy but that’s the case for most AFL players.

Now is a great time to hit the draft BECAUSE we have a good core of older players with elite attributes and AA merit to guide the process through, such as Hill, Steele, Marshall, Sinclair, Wilkie.

 

[Joffaboy]

In terms of the Houston debate…

Who would u rather right now… hill or serong?

Stick to the drafts lads

Hill is so much better for us. Playing great football, helped keep NWM at the club, helped got Henry to the club.
Serong would not have done any of that, Naz would be back in Adelaide, Henry probably somewhere else.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Punter]

unrestricted free agent is actually what you mean.

He was a delisted FA when we signed him which means he retains his FA rights at the end of every subsequent contract. Once a FA, always a FA.

 

[FootyMaster11]

In terms of the Houston debate…

Who would u rather right now… hill or serong?

Stick to the drafts lads

I understand what you are saying but I don't think Hill is the right example.

Without Hill, we most likely struggle to retain NWM, we don't get Henry, and Collard looks for a trade.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Please stop labelling people as memes

 

[Sainter88]

I hate this revisionist stuff. Hindsight is great because you can make it whatever you want it to be. What's to say we pick Serong and he gets 5 concussions in his first year? Or asks for a trade after his 4th year? It's all ifs and buts

It’s the best, in my mind we got Hawthorn’s zone and were dominate throughout the 80s. It’s nice man, not to mention Heatley going nuts in 97 and lifting that glorious cup.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Agreed. Got all the talent in the world and I reckon Ross and the saints are the perfect place for him to show those talents.

And at least the kid has stuck around and wants to give it a crack and not be a sook and want to go home

 

[CaptainRisky]

Fact, gun mids are often full time mids in juniors, takes years to train skills, positioning, awareness etc.

Owens was a small forward in juniors, after a growth spurt, played wing in the final year with a couple of stint in the midfield. I’m not saying he can’t be a mid, but just because he is big, competitive and strong doesn’t make him a midfielder.. His skill is seriously under whelming, maybe a little better than Jason Daniels.. with a poor kicking action and not much midfield craft and nous..

He can still train it, he looks lost in the midfield when not in the ruck. That’s why the coaches are putting him forward, because it’s where he is most comfortable and effective in..

He also needs to get seriously fit , maybe dropping a Kg or two may help but he needs to get over the ground better IMO
Same with Stocker , Oh yes Hunter should join them as well

 

[gringo2011]

To a point- yes, I think you can get away with an average midfield.

If you sweat on punishing teams on turnovers, then yeah... you can win lots of games by basically conceding most centre square stoppages and giving them first use.

BUT- I think where this strategy comes unstuck when it REALLY matters- CLOSE finish games.

Games that are on the line at the death are (in my opinion) often won and lost out of the centre square clearance battle (especially with the 6/6/6 rule).

So I think you can build a team that wins a lot of games using just a bland, average midfield (if you are good at punishing turnovers and commit few yourself).

BUT- you're team is gonna be at high risk (i think) of losing the majority of any CLOSE games they happen to play in.

In an even comp- there are bound to be lots of close games (and especially in low scoring finals).
So I think yes- you can build very good, competitive team with only an average midfield.

But that competitive team is always going to be more likely than not to lose the most important/season defining games.

So overall- THAT is why it ultimately fails as a flag winning strategy in my opinion.

You don't need star mids... right up until the crucial points when you DO need them.

I remember seeing scoring breakdowns and very few are from the centre break these days. People remember them because it looks spectacular but turnover, rebound and interception are much more important than inside ball winning for scoring.

We are built for outside break-away speed and half back rebounding. Geelong used that well and Collingwood even rebound really well but also carry a few inside contested players.

Lyon has never rated inside ball winners as much as others and it will be interesting to see what his ideal set up looks like.

To me we are a bit too tall up front still. I think ideally we would have more small scoring options/ forward pressure.