Training 2024 Training - reports, pics etc

[Bamboo Harvester]

gov's efforts to pretend to fly for the mark with acres was pure hollywood quality...........no mongrel, just crafty craft..........

That whole sequence was pure poetry....our wingman Acres in the goal square to take the mark and kick the winning goal, with two defenders in Gov and Kemp riding shotgun to give him clear passage. You couldn't script it better, and would still be giving Goodwin nightmares....well, that and Clarry....

 

[Arr0w]

Appears he was in the rehab group during the first open training session too. Could just be load management and coincidence that he happened to be there during the 2 sessions that were open with the public.

Believe he has been in the rehab group the whole time

If he has been there regularly it would conflict with reports from several itks that he has been a standout this preseason. Will get a better vibe of where he sits in the new year.

I haven't seen ITKs or anyone suggesting he has been a standout, unless it's elsewhere on this site

I personally prefer Cowan to Boyd. He is a more versatile type as that 7th defender. Can defend, intercept, rebound, play on various types. Boyd is a better user but doesn't win much ball and think we will mainly play through Saad, Williams and Newman anyway.

When Cowan and Boyd played this year, they were playing different roles. Moving forward in times, Cowan has more versatility, but he wouldn't be replacing Boyd

But thats assuming they are playing at a similar level. If Boyd is clearly in better form then he gets the spot.

I think Boyd is a lock for round 1, Cowan would be in the mix if Williams isn't ready round 1

 

[marcmurphy3]

Believe he has been in the rehab group the whole time


I haven't seen ITKs or anyone suggesting he has been a standout, unless it's elsewhere on this site


When Cowan and Boyd played this year, they were playing different roles. Moving forward in times, Cowan has more versatility, but he wouldn't be replacing Boyd



I think Boyd is a lock for round 1, Cowan would be in the mix if Williams isn't ready round 1

Soapy for one has mentioned that he has impressed. Several others too. Can't be bothered going through them but they're there. Not from training reports because he has been in the rehab group during the 2 open sessions.

I get your argument that they're different types but I do think they're competing for that 7th defender spot. Either could slot in beside Weitering, Marchbank, McGovern, Saad, Williams, Newman. If anything, I think Cowan complements that group better but realistically you'd slot in whichever one is in better form. Neither is unique enough that one couldn't replace the other.

If Boyd is seen as such a lock, I think he would have played earlier last year after his suspension ended. We kept picking Cincotta who wasn't in great form ahead of him until the prelim where we had to drop kemp and bring in Boyd for team balance as much as anything. To his credit his played great that day and I would be happy to see him play round one. Just wouldn't call him a lock.

 

[JustOneTime]

Agree with above. Boyd is a chance based on the Brisbane game formline (albeit one game when prev he hardly touched the ball enough to warrant a spot). On that one game his chances are there - i loved his brissy game. If they go on averages then he is more fighting for the last spot or missing out.

He needs to improve another level for mine. Elite kick in theory but little metres gained so not an attacking option when compared to Williams and Saad. People citing lockdown which is fine but then his trait of elite kicking becomes obsolete with a low kick count average.

A quandary until we see more from him. I personally think when he plays, he ends up playing lockdown as other preferred roles are taken from him by better players in Newman/Saad. He is more left with the lockdown role in the pecking order. And maybe, just maybe he recognises that and is training for that.

The point about Cowan and Boyd (and cincotta) not competing is not true IMO. The discussion is more about which lever the coach wants to pull but all 3 are playing for the last defensive spot. There will be a similar battle in the small fwds of Owies/Durdin vs Motlop/Fantasia. They are also battling for the same spots despite offering different traits. The decision is based on what lever the coach wants to pull on matchday.

 

[Coona Blues]

The debate over our defensive structure is one we are all applying personal preference to. Somewhat unsurprisingly because we absolutely have four (arguably six) AFL standard tall defenders and a similar number of medium/smalls in that area (arguably 7).

Seemingly Weitering, McGovern and Marchbank will be our first choice talls, but that leaves Brodie Kemp desperately unlucky. Add Young who was a revelation in 2022 before a fall from grace, and Mr Reliable Nigel Durdin who continues to add layers to his game at the secondary level.

Anyone who does not have (AA) Saad, Newman (B&F 3rd), and Zac Williams as locks is kidding themself. Cincotta and Boyd are AFL quality, with both, especially Boyd offering superb dual sided disposal. Then there is Cowan who is clearly anointed as “the future”. If his on field promise is not enough, being handed the number #2 should seal it. He will be integrated as soon as is practical. Add All Australian stalwart as an option despite his redeployment and some youngsters developing.

I dispute the “Boyd is a lock crew”. Cincotta was a staple ahead of him through the pointy end of the season, despite being hampered by niggling injuries and perhaps fatigue off the back of not having an AFL pre season. I will not knock Boyd, as his best is irresistible. He has, however played as many “ordinary” games as quality ones at the top level. His dare with disposal is both a strength and a potential flaw, whereas I see Cincotta as more disciplined and conservative by design. It comes down to best structural mix.

We have options which may well be decided on by “mix” rather than raw ability or individual output. The beauty is we have a “second string” that is ready for the big league. Ideally they are all “schooled” through the season to ensure all roles have back up conversant with the necessary positional requirements.

Kempy probably starts behind the other trio of talls, but his athleticism and other attributes are ultra exciting for the future.
Newman 31
(Docherty 30)
Saad 29 (30 in season)
Williams 29
McGovern 29
Durdin 27 (28 in season)
Marchbank 27
Cincotta 27
Weitering 26
Boyd 25
Young 25
Kemp 22 (23 in season)
Cowan 19
Carroll 18

Plus Acres, Hewett, Cerra, Silvagni have played back and draftee Wilson played more half back than mid in juniors.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Cincotta to me still looked like he was finding his way. Played some shutdown roles. When he ran and took the game on he looked great. Lovely kick of the ball.

I think with another pre season and some belief he should really step up.

Having Cincotta Cown Boyd Williams Saad Newman M.Carroll Wilson maybe Monahan all fighting for running defender spots just makes us better

Agree he definitely was finding his way Soap, and preformed exceptionally well in that regard, looked like he also was tiring towards the end of the season also most likely had been sore and possibly carrying a niggle or two…
Has a lot to work with, only a few things he needs to tidy up on to help develop and round out his game…

 

[Soapy V]

The debate over our defensive structure is one we are all applying personal preference to. Somewhat unsurprisingly because we absolutely have four (arguably six) AFL standard tall defenders and a similar number of medium/smalls in that area (arguably 7).

Seemingly Weitering, McGovern and Marchbank will be our first choice talls, but that leaves Brodie Kemp desperately unlucky. Add Young who was a revelation in 2022 before a fall from grace, and Mr Reliable Nigel Durdin who continues to add layers to his game at the secondary level.

Anyone who does not have (AA) Saad, Newman (B&F 3rd), and Zac Williams as locks is kidding themself. Cincotta and Boyd are AFL quality, with both, especially Boyd offering superb dual sided disposal. Then there is Cowan who is clearly anointed as “the future”. If his on field promise is not enough, being handed the number #2 should seal it. He will be integrated as soon as is practical. Add All Australian stalwart as an option despite his redeployment and some youngsters developing.

I dispute the “Boyd is a lock crew”. Cincotta was a staple ahead of him through the pointy end of the season, despite being hampered by niggling injuries and perhaps fatigue off the back of not having an AFL pre season. I will not knock Boyd, as his best is irresistible. He has, however played as many “ordinary” games as quality ones at the top level. His dare with disposal is both a strength and a potential flaw, whereas I see Cincotta as more disciplined and conservative by design. It comes down to best structural mix.

We have options which may well be decided on by “mix” rather than raw ability or individual output. The beauty is we have a “second string” that is ready for the big league. Ideally they are all “schooled” through the season to ensure all roles have back up conversant with the necessary positional requirements.

Kempy probably starts behind the other trio of talls, but his athleticism and other attributes are ultra exciting for the future.
Newman 31
(Docherty 30)
Saad 29 (30 in season)
Williams 29
McGovern 29
Durdin 27 (28 in season)
Marchbank 27
Cincotta 27
Weitering 26
Boyd 25
Young 25
Kemp 22 (23 in season)
Cowan 19
Carroll 18

Plus Acres, Hewett, Cerra, Silvagni have played back and draftee Wilson played more half back than mid in juniors.

I look at it this way

Weitering Durdin Young are our genuine talls

McGovern Marchbank Kemp are third tall types that can play tall
The rest are mobile runners all with different skill sets

The key will be form, fitness and how we want to match up and play.

I have no issue with any of them. If players are picked on form all the better.

I think we are probably ONE genuine tall short (Lemmey may develop there) and losing Weitering would be huge but it's as good as defensive group as I have seen us have on our list

IMO the only genuine locks in our defence are Weitering & Saad. The rest are all fighting for 5 spots and we will have good players playing in the 2's

 

[Arr0w]

Agree with above. Boyd is a chance based on the Brisbane game formline (albeit one game when prev he hardly touched the ball enough to warrant a spot). On that one game his chances are there - i loved his brissy game. If they go on averages then he is more fighting for the last spot or missing out.

He needs to improve another level for mine. Elite kick in theory but little metres gained so not an attacking option when compared to Williams and Saad. People citing lockdown which is fine but then his trait of elite kicking becomes obsolete with a low kick count average.

A quandary until we see more from him. I personally think when he plays, he ends up playing lockdown as other preferred roles are taken from him by better players in Newman/Saad. He is more left with the lockdown role in the pecking order. And maybe, just maybe he recognises that and is training for that.

The point about Cowan and Boyd (and cincotta) not competing is not true IMO. The discussion is more about which lever the coach wants to pull but all 3 are playing for the last defensive spot. There will be a similar battle in the small fwds of Owies/Durdin vs Motlop/Fantasia. They are also battling for the same spots despite offering different traits. The decision is based on what lever the coach wants to pull on matchday.

Seen you mentioning stats a number of times, moreso possession counts for defenders, which is bizarre

If you want to use stats as an analysis tool, for defenders, perhaps focus on defensive stats, where Boyd has both Cowan and Cincotta covered in every metric

 

[tragic]

Seen you mentioning stats a number of times, moreso possession counts for defenders, which is bizarre

If you want to use stats as an analysis tool, for defenders, perhaps focus on defensive stats, where Boyd has both Cowan and Cincotta covered in every metric

I think people would like Cowan(definitely) and possibly Cincotta to be selected over Boyd as they have more of the "traits" that are more exciting. I just want good footballers who are in good form to be selected. If they are athletic.fast etc then that is a bonus.

 

[BlueTongue]

I think people would like Cowan(definitely) and possibly Cincotta to be selected over Boyd as they have more of the "traits" that are more exciting. I just want good footballers who are in good form to be selected. If they are athletic.fast etc then that is a bonus.

Not sure I can see Cincotta used over Boyd in any capacity except maybe lockdown on smalls.
Boyd breaks lines and has a good footy brain, for me, he's a lock.

 

[JustOneTime]

Seen you mentioning stats a number of times, moreso possession counts for defenders, which is bizarre

If you want to use stats as an analysis tool, for defenders, perhaps focus on defensive stats, where Boyd has both Cowan and Cincotta covered in every metric

The defensive stats between Cowan and Boyd are quite close if you factor the same time on ground. If you factor in who could improve faster out of the 2 in 2024 it also gets more interesting. Cowan surely has more scope than Boyd.

Its going to be a line ball call and come down to which type of trait fits that final defensive spot which i feel Boyd is competing for.

I personally dont have Cowan/Cincotta in my best 22. I have Boyd closest. I just feel he is fighting for that last spot and the most open to attack from either a progressing Cowan/Cincotta/Kemp. I get it you think he is a lock. I don't. Agree to disagree.

I think your partial out of context responses are bizarre.

 

[GeorgieBoyBlue2]

Dont know how much better Cincotta can get or how quickly Cowan moves up- he must have showed something as Voss started him early last season. It is good to have some mongrel in Boyd/Cowan/Cincotta/Newman back there and let the silk in Saad and Williams do their thing - personally Id love a second real KPD with some nasty in them to round out the team - but then again I always like more mongrel I'm biased that way.

The only one in that group that has high aggression (mongrel is a derogatory term referring to mixed races/breeds .. ie 99.9% of the human race) is Cowan.
Boyd is silkier than Saad and Williams also.... guess the lenses we view through are like chalk and cheese....

 

[JustaBattler]

The only one in that group that has high aggression (mongrel is a derogatory term referring to mixed races/breeds .. ie 99.9% of the human race) is Cowan.
Boyd is silkier than Saad and Williams also.... guess the lenses we view through are like chalk and cheese....

Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

I noticed a nice chart put up by a poster and Carlton was amongst the lowest scoring in fines and suspensions this year. Some say how nice to support such a lovely bunch of nice boys. I say BULLSHIT - we are short of mongrel BIG TIME. These blokes have some mongrel in them and the rest should...

www.bigfooty.com

feel free to add your thoughts in the thread above.

 

[Arr0w]

The defensive stats between Cowan and Boyd are quite close if you factor the same time on ground. If you factor in who could improve faster out of the 2 in 2024 it also gets more interesting. Cowan surely has more scope than Boyd.

We aren't in rebuild mode, so you don't pick players on upside, you pick them on output. Boyd has both Cincotta and Cowan covered, based on the most recent season

Its going to be a line ball call and come down to which type of trait fits that final defensive spot which i feel Boyd is competing for.

IMHO Boyd and Cowan aren't competing for the same spot

I personally dont have Cowan/Cincotta in my best 22. I have Boyd closest. I just feel he is fighting for that last spot and the most open to attack from either a progressing Cowan/Cincotta/Kemp. I get it you think he is a lock. I don't. Agree to disagree.

So if you don't have Cincotta or Cowan in your 22, who is he competing with for a spot and why are you comparing Boyd to Cincotta and Cowan in the first place

I think your partial out of context responses are bizarre.

See above for out of context. Why would you even debate the topic if you don't have Cowan or Cincotta in your 22

 

[JustOneTime]

We aren't in rebuild mode, so you don't pick players on upside, you pick them on output. Boyd has both Cincotta and Cowan covered, based on the most recent season

Good to differ on opinions. I know you think Boyd has Cincotta covered in every facet, and on 2023 form but funnily enough the club saw it a little differently playing Cincotta 19 games to Boyd's 9, including preferring Cincotta over boyd quite a few times head to head.

That alone defeats any principle of Boyd being a lock for 24. For complete transparency, a lock is somelike like Saad.

I like your persistence on Boyd...good for you. I expect you would now want to cite Boyd's potential progress that will elevate him but you cant because you already dismissed Cowan and my argument.

 

[Arr0w]

Good to differ on opinions. I know you think Boyd has Cincotta covered in every facet, and on 2023 form but funnily enough the club saw it a little differently playing Cincotta 19 games to Boyd's 9, including preferring Cincotta over boyd quite a few times head to head.

That alone defeats any principle of Boyd being a lock for 24. For complete transparency, a lock is somelike like Saad.

I like your persistence on Boyd...good for you. I expect you would now want to cite Boyd's potential progress that will elevate him but you cant because you already dismissed Cowan and my argument.

You really are just wasting people's time or think you can get a rise out of targeting people

This from you, less than 10 days ago where you have Boyd in your best 22 and still with Doc as a defender, which based on this year is unlikely to eventuate in 2024

Prediction - 2024 - Best 23 + Emergencies - Rolling

sounds like shit has got real for e hollands.......

www.bigfooty.com

Done with wasting my time

 

[branedotorg]

The only one in that group that has high aggression (mongrel is a derogatory term referring to mixed races/breeds .. ie 99.9% of the human race) is Cowan.
Boyd is silkier than Saad and Williams also.... guess the lenses we view through are like chalk and cheese....

I think the non-pejorative use of mongrel in the sports context is quite well established, meaning tough and a bit unorthodox.

If you think the intent here is to racially profile players then please use the report function.

 

[branedotorg]

Done with wasting my time

Brilliant. Chuck JoT on ignore? JustOneTime vice versa eh?

 

[marcmurphy3]

Saying Boyd has Cincotta and Cowan covered in every defensive stat is pretty blatant bias. Not sure what these stats even are. Alot of defensive stuff comes more down to the eye test anyway. A 0.1 difference in intercepts here and a 0.2 difference in 1on 1 wins there isn't stuff I put much weight on. We clearly rate Cincottas defensive capabilities as we kept playing him on the best small forwards while Boyd was playing vfl. Enough said.

Plus its irreverent anyway as we are trying to project forward with these discussions. With a full preseason under their belt I expect all of Boyd, Cincotta and Cowan to be better then last year.

For the record I have nothing against Boyd. In fact he's in my best 22 over the other 2 at present. I just think we just need to be careful presenting our opinions as fact and then going hard at other posters who don't agree with us. Most of what I say is just my opinion and if anyone disagrees with me that's totally fine.

 

[Arr0w]

Saying Boyd has Cincotta and Cowan covered in every defensive stat is pretty blatant bias. Not sure what these stats even are. Alot of defensive stuff comes more down to the eye test anyway. A 0.1 difference in intercepts here and a 0.2 difference in 1on 1 wins there isn't stuff I put much weight on. We clearly rate Cincottas defensive capabilities as we kept playing him on the best small forwards while Boyd was playing vfl. Enough said.

Plus its irreverent anyway as we are trying to project forward with these discussions. With a full preseason under their belt I expect all of Boyd, Cincotta and Cowan to be better then last year.

For the record I have nothing against Boyd. In fact he's in my best 22 over the other 2 at present. I just think we just need to be careful presenting our opinions as fact and then going hard at other posters who don't agree with us. Most of what I say is just my opinion and if anyone disagrees with me that's totally fine.

Struggling to understand how factual stats can be an opinion that is blatantly bias

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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www.afl.com.au

Perhaps, go back to the poster that was using possession count stats to determine who is the better defender, rather than using defensive stats, or taking one side of the debate as right or wrong

On a different note, it's merely IMHO that Boyd is a lock, and I respect that other people's opinion, don't see him as a lock

As for bias, I don't have any towards any players. I don't "hope or prefer" someone is in or out of the side, because of who they are, their name, draft position or the colour of their hair, age, etc

I hope that's cleared up any confusion

 

[Soapy V]

Saying Boyd has Cincotta and Cowan covered in every defensive stat is pretty blatant bias. Not sure what these stats even are. Alot of defensive stuff comes more down to the eye test anyway. A 0.1 difference in intercepts here and a 0.2 difference in 1on 1 wins there isn't stuff I put much weight on. We clearly rate Cincottas defensive capabilities as we kept playing him on the best small forwards while Boyd was playing vfl. Enough said.

Plus its irreverent anyway as we are trying to project forward with these discussions. With a full preseason under their belt I expect all of Boyd, Cincotta and Cowan to be better then last year.

For the record I have nothing against Boyd. In fact he's in my best 22 over the other 2 at present. I just think we just need to be careful presenting our opinions as fact and then going hard at other posters who don't agree with us. Most of what I say is just my opinion and if anyone disagrees with me that's totally fine.

None of those players have each other “covered”

All have improvement in the them and any of them could jump up over the pre season

2024 is new year and anything could happen and I see positives in all of them

 

[ferrisb]

Soapy for one has mentioned that he has impressed.

I have been reading Soapy V's pre-season reports.

We now have 283 A-graders on the list.

Pretty sure...







Love ya, Soap.

 

[katmanblue]

Will be interesting to see where he sits in the pecking order.

Using the pecking order like a ladder.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

Dont know how much better Cincotta can get or how quickly Cowan moves up- he must have showed something as Voss started him early last season. It is good to have some mongrel in Boyd/Cowan/Cincotta/Newman back there and let the silk in Saad and Williams do their thing - personally Id love a second real KPD with some nasty in them to round out the team - but then again I always like more mongrel I'm biased that way.

Stephen May is the perfect example.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BigFrizz36]

Stephen May is the perfect example.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think that people will be really surprised by how good Caleb Marchbank will be with his first real pre season under his belt. When he's up and going he has a real confidence about his game and his ability.

Plus he reminds me of Vinnie Waite and he's 3cm taller than May. Will be a very attacking centre half back.