USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Maggie5]

First, I truly don't "support" Harris. I don't "support" Biden. I simply don't understand how anyone concludes that I do.

I am anti-Trump because he is an horrendous human. The lowest of the low. Having said that, I wouldn't even give him another thought if he was just going about his life outside of politics, other than hoping he gets what he deserves in the legal arena. What I'm very strong on is that he must not be allowed to lead the US again. It would be disastrous for them and the flow-on effects for the rest of the world would be negative, and non-trivial.

So, the context of my view is limited to who is next leader of the US, and the related process. I've already made the point that if Biden/Harris were running against any normal opposition, I'd be more than happy for them to lose.

In this context, I find it difficult to conceive of anything Harris could do that would make her a worse choice for leading the US. I already find US Middle East policy morally abhorrent, but as I have stated ad nauseum, that's on both sides.

Hypothetically, if she were to change her persona such that she would be a vindictive, self-serving fascist who had no idea and no desire to govern and acted as if laws don't apply to her, then they'd be similar and I would have no horse in the race. And the US would be f***ed because their next leader may well be the end of them.

Think that is very clear I am similar although I would vote for Harris if I were able to vote in this election.

I like her policies on child care, small business, home loans and I am imagining her policy on price gouging would be similar to our Consumer Affairs. I actually also liked her in 2020.

Like the many on here, I have strong feelings on Dems support/inaction of Israel. However, I fear that things would be worse under Trump even excluding that I believe he is a despicable human being. The majority of Republicans support Israel whilst there are still a high number of Democrats that are speaking against the continued funding/support without restrictions. The USA for years has supported Israel with funding without strings attached. I find it appalling.

The United States has provisionally agreed via a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to provide Israel with $3.8 billion per year through 2028.

Perhaps it's that the people who are strongly caring about this issue are in the expected Kamala-voting base, so they have some hypothetical democratic input in influencing that candidate where they have none in Trump. As OneGreatClub's article says:

While Biden has called for limits on Netanyahu’s conduct of the war, he has ultimately not stood in Israel’s way despite a growing groundswell of opposition to the war within the party. Whether that voter pressure might eventually push Harris to put more limits on Israel is an open question. But under no circumstances will Trump pressure Netanyahu to agree to a ceasefire and will never demand that Israel agree to the creation of a Palestinian state.

So there's a groundswell of opposition within the Democrats on this, and still some amount of hope that this could push Harris to act, and absolutely no hope that Trump will do so. So who are you going to prioritise your time voicing your opposition to?

I am not sure how this relates to what I posted.

 

[Festerz]

Elon Musk actively interfering in the twitter platform feed to support Donald Trump's presidential campaign whould be alarming and the fact that it isn't tells us how far we've falled.

Ironic I was alerted to this by a twitter post btw - wonder how long that is allowed to happen

 

[OneGreatClub]

Although I posted that Harris would win (273 EV), I think that she will exceed that and win by more than the oft spoken margin of error. The only toss up swing state concerns me is Michigan (muslims) who may not vote for her but can't see them voting for Trump, maybe leave that section blank.

Trump's latest rallies show that he is unfit to be President.

Bring on the court cases.

If they vote for Stein it could be an issue. She gives Dems another option but unfortunately as I have said before it might not bode well for them in the long run.

 

[OneGreatClub]

A vote for Stein or not voting at all as a Dem is a vote for Trump.

 

[big_e]

Elon Musk actively interfering in the twitter platform feed to support Donald Trump's presidential campaign whould be alarming and the fact that it isn't tells us how far we've falled.

Ironic I was alerted to this by a twitter post btw - wonder how long that is allowed to happen

Which is even more ironic considering Vance's "answering a question with a question" diversion here.

 

[Maggie5]

If they vote for Stein it could be an issue. She gives Dems another option but unfortunately as I have said before it might not bode well for them in the long run.

Good points, this year will RFK supporters defect to Trump? Jill Stein, Cornel West and Libertarian Chase Oliver are also standing.

Libertarian Jo Gorgesen did a bit of damage in those states you mention in 2020.

 

[pjcrows]

Dems are already blaming everyone else except themselves. Again.

Your job in politics is to convince voters to vote for you. Shitting on everyone else and shaming your own possible voters doesn't work, but it appears that's all they come back to when the heat is on.

 

[bourbons]

But can you explain how he will destroy the electoral system in his next term?

Install sycophant lickspittles in all the election related and DoJ positions that told him to take a hike in 2020. Pretty important piece of groundwork already laid with the prez is immune from almost everything nonsense from the SC.

His successors won't stop elections from happening, they'll just use the same playbook of everything I don't win is rigged, ably supported by the loyalists installed in the relevant positions. Argument could be made he was only a few key personnel away from causing some pretty major issues in 2020.

Who knows if they'll actually be able to pull it off but thats the plan.

 

[bourbons]

Dems in severe panic mode.

Dems in full panic mode

Dems in full panic mode.

Can you organise a firmware update or something?

You appear to be glitching

 

[liz]

I wonder if he listened to the lyrics as he stood there and swayed. Nothing in his rhetoric in recent months suggests he likes America. While for years he's been dissing the men that gave their lives to protect the freedom of Americans.

 

[bourbons]

There's more room for some vaguely humanitarian leadership than you suggest.

Maybe, but not a whole lot more room based on the numbers you've provided, and thats with things as they stand currently. No longer supporting Israel would be a pretty radical departure for any US political party and would likely see some movement in those numbers.

I hate whats going on in Gaza too and wish a party was providing some kind of alternative, but pretty obvious the Democrats have made a rational political calculation that there's more risk in shaking things up than remaining with the status quo.

 

[Satan]

I wonder if he listened to the lyrics as he stood there and swayed. Nothing in his rhetoric in recent months suggests he likes America. While for years he's been dissing the men that gave their lives to protect the freedom of Americans.

He played fortunate son for years without knowing the story

 

[CD Xbow]

He played fortunate son for years without knowing the story

Absolutely.
The evangelicals often play 'Hallelujah' by old misery guts at their events. They clearly don't listen to the lyrics but perhaps its a good example of how content doesn't matter, it's all style over substance with the media becoming the message.

 

[bourbons]

Party A: We will fund Israel. We'll give them the hardware with which to butcher thousands. We'll stifle any attempt by the UN to hold Israel to account. We'll ignore international law, and then we'll undermine it by suggesting that it shouldn't apply to our allies. We will crack down on internal dissent against Israeli policy by encouraging the arrest of protestors. We will advocate for a definition of antisemitism which will equate any criticism of Israeli policy with the oldest hate of all. We will ignore the killing of our own citizens in order to avoid Israeli discomfort. We will publicly encourage 'restraint' while doing everything else in our power to accelerate Israeli aggression. We will support the extension of this violence into the sovereign state of Lebanon.

Party B: We will fund Israel. We'll give them the hardware with which to butcher thousands. We'll stifle any attempt by the UN to hold Israel to account. We'll ignore international law, and then we'll undermine it by suggesting that it shouldn't apply to our allies. We will crack down on internal dissent against Israeli policy by encouraging the arrest of protestors. We will advocate for a definition of antisemitism which will equate any criticism of Israeli policy with the oldest hate of all. We will ignore the killing of our own citizens in order to avoid Israeli discomfort. We will publicly encourage 'restraint' while doing everything else in our power to accelerate Israeli aggression. We will support the extension of this violence into the sovereign state of Lebanon.

Fixed

 

[blackshadow]

Absolutely.
The evangelicals often play 'Hallelujah' by old misery guts at their events. They clearly don't listen to the lyrics but perhaps its a good example of how content doesn't matter, it's all style over substance with the media becoming the message.

How dare you refer to the late and great Leonard Cohen as old misery guts!

I would have thought a fan of The Residents would have been a little more respectful!

 

[Gough]

Absolutely.
The evangelicals often play 'Hallelujah' by old misery guts at their events. They clearly don't listen to the lyrics but perhaps its a good example of how content doesn't matter, it's all style over substance with the media becoming the message.

I was lucky enough to see both Jeff Buckley and Leonard Cohen do that live.

 

[blackshadow]

I was lucky enough to see both Jeff Buckley and Leonard Cohen do that live.

Me too.

Leonard way better than Jeff. Jeff's old man was pretty decent.

 

[Gough]

Me too.

Leonard way better than Jeff. Jeff's old man was pretty decent.

Not often you get father and son cult figures like that, I can think of Bruce and Brandon Lee but that's about it.

 

[bourbons]

The battle between genuine leftists vs the mainstream left rages on ITT... sen-sational m8.

View attachment 2139584

Shh m8, adults are talking

 

[bourbons]

Haha wot

Saw that and just assumed it was doctored video

 

[bourbons]

Elon Musk actively interfering in the twitter platform feed to support Donald Trump's presidential campaign whould be alarming and the fact that it isn't tells us how far we've falled.

Ironic I was alerted to this by a twitter post btw - wonder how long that is allowed to happen

So exactly what they complain about with hUntEr bIDeNs LaPToP?

Shocked to be sitting here

 

[Around the Wicket]

Trump is now $1.50 favourite with most betting agencies, the great man will return!

 

[LuvtheKangas]

He played fortunate son for years without knowing the story

Absolutely.
The evangelicals often play 'Hallelujah' by old misery guts at their events. They clearly don't listen to the lyrics but perhaps its a good example of how content doesn't matter, it's all style over substance with the media becoming the message.

In a similar vein, Ronald Reagan's government used Village People's "In The Navy" as the theme to an armed forces recruitment ad.

 

[Satan]

Me too.

Leonard way better than Jeff. Jeff's old man was pretty decent.

Nathan?

 

[Around the Wicket]

No new wars started under Trump, its been a shit show under Harris and Biden.