USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Baldur]

People forget that Trump was President between 2016 and 2020.
What fascist or Nazi policies did he enable?

Hitler was in power from 1933 to 1945. Kristallnacht was Nov 1938, the Holocaust by bullets began in Aug 1941 & the Wannsee Conference Jan 1942. Killing all the Jews of Europe was not Nazi policy until Jan 1942. It was never public Nazi policy, they never admitted what they were doing in speeches etc, it was always a secret policy.

I will leave it to others to list his many attempts at fascist policies, which mostly failed. But just a couple as an entrée, the Muslim ban, encouraging police violence vrs black people, forced separation of children of migrants, sending back US born babies to Mexico without birth certificates (denying them their legal right to US citizenship).

Immigration policy of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The ACLU published a report; Neglect and Abuse of Unaccompanied Immigrant Children by U.S. Customs and Border Protection,[322] in May 2018 that alleged a "culture of impunity" within US Customs and Border Protection and the Department of Homeland Security.[323] The documents describe hundreds of cases of alleged abuse between 2009 and 2014, in a system that a staff attorney Mitra Ebadolahi called brutal and lawless.[324] In response, the US Customs and Border Protection agency issued a statement in which it called the allegations "unfounded and baseless."[325]

A federal lawsuit was brought forward by immigrant children, separate covering a period from 2015 though 2017. Immigrant children as young as 14, who are housed in the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center near Staunton, Virginia allege over half a dozen sworn statements from teens jailed in the center. The alleged behavior in the statements are claims of being beaten while handcuffed, locked up for extended time in solitary confinement, being left nude and shivering in concrete cells, and being stripped of clothes and strapped to chairs with bags over their heads"

 

[Bloods86]

People forget that Trump was President between 2016 and 2020.
What fascist or Nazi policies did he enable?

Some of the elements of fascism that Trump and MAGA display are his authoritarian and autocratic tendencies, with an unhealthy dose of science denial and contempt for education which led to regulatory action and sabotage of relevant departments, nationalism which led to immigration bans, fear of difference e.g. demonising immigrants, sexual and gender minorities, and plot obsession of which there are many driving MAGA paranoia.

In terms of just his authoritarian bent, outside of anything he's said about news media intimidation and control, his reaction to losing the last Presidential election is telling and should disqualify him in the minds of voters who hold democracy and freedom of speech (which includes voting) as fundamental principles.

He concocted fraudulent elector schemes to deceive or influence the VP and Congress to make him President, just because.

He pressured state officials to just give him the win, including Republicans who wanted him to be President but refused to bow.

He pressured the acting AG and his deputy to lie to the states and Congress in official letters alleging non existent election fraud.

He explored replacing those principled (Republican) officials with Yes Men until it became clear that would result in mass resignations.

He conducted a fraudulent campaign in the media and courts, with his associates, inflaming public tensions without basis. His lawyers have reneged on many claims since, and Giuliani admitted he lied about counting fraud which has ruined him financially via defamation punishments.

He sent protestors to the capitol to unnecessarily pressure against the certification of legitimate results, where a gallows had already been set up.

He spent hours fobbing off calls to calm rioters and insurrectionists, instead using the time to mock those fearing for their lives and continue to pressure them to abandon their legal duties. Completely disregarding the safety of the legislators, staff, law enforcement and his own supporters.

 

[swingdog]

Hitler was in power from 1933 to 1945. Kristallnacht was Nov 1938, the Holocaust by bullets began in Aug 1941 & the Wannsee Conference Jan 1942. Killing all the Jews of Europe was not Nazi policy until Jan 1942. It was never public Nazi policy, they never admitted what they were doing in speeches etc, it was always a secret policy.

I will leave it to others to list his many attempts at fascist policies, which mostly failed. But just a couple as an entrée, the Muslim ban, encouraging police violence vrs black people, forced separation of children of migrants, sending back US born babies to Mexico without birth certificates (denying them their legal right to US citizenship).

Immigration policy of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The ACLU published a report; Neglect and Abuse of Unaccompanied Immigrant Children by U.S. Customs and Border Protection,[322] in May 2018 that alleged a "culture of impunity" within US Customs and Border Protection and the Department of Homeland Security.[323] The documents describe hundreds of cases of alleged abuse between 2009 and 2014, in a system that a staff attorney Mitra Ebadolahi called brutal and lawless.[324] In response, the US Customs and Border Protection agency issued a statement in which it called the allegations "unfounded and baseless."[325]

A federal lawsuit was brought forward by immigrant children, separate covering a period from 2015 though 2017. Immigrant children as young as 14, who are housed in the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center near Staunton, Virginia allege over half a dozen sworn statements from teens jailed in the center. The alleged behavior in the statements are claims of being beaten while handcuffed, locked up for extended time in solitary confinement, being left nude and shivering in concrete cells, and being stripped of clothes and strapped to chairs with bags over their heads"

Anyone wanting to do a deep dive, I'd really recommend Saul Friedlander's two volume The Years of Persecution: Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1933–1939 and The Years of Extermination: Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939–1945.

Pretty much as Baldur says, the Nazis definitely wanted the jews out of Germany and were originally focused on immigration (forced or coerced).

The Russian invasion swelled the numbers of Jews so much under German control, they started the mass executions behind the fro/nt, followed by formalisation at Wannsee.

 

[big_e]

As I said it didn’t happen under Hitler for a fair while either, it’s just the dangers that lurk ahead if the guard rails are removed and you have an authoritarian regime in charge.

The extermination didn’t begin until 1941, Hitler first attempted to gain power in 1924 and got power and became a dictator in 1933. If you were around then I am sure you’d have been saying it was hyperbole the danger people were saying Hitler was.

The initial plan was to deport the Jews (like trump with the illegal immigrants now), then that was seen as infeasible so came up with the “final solution”.

Now I don’t even know if Trump will follow through on the deportation of the illegal immigrants, he isn’t driven ideologically like Hitler so just says whatever he thinks with get support with his base. Problem is he has many true believers in his circle who definitely want it to happen.

Also, when you say Muslim countries, you mean like Saudi Arabia who Trump is BFFs with and his son in law got 2 billion from?

Hitler wrote of hanging every Jew in Munich as early as 1924.

So when Trump stands in front of signs saying "Mass Deportation Now", I don't think we should be surprised if he does it.

 

[kane249]

On the flip side, are you suggesting that the Left will not riot when Trump wins?
Thats almost a rolled up guarantee in my opinion.

So you think Kamala will rile up her supporters enough to attack The Capitol?

 

[Saint Shags]

So you think Kamala will rile up her supporters enough to attack The Capitol?

Protest march v Storming the Capitol.
Same thing aren't they?

/s

 

[GreyCrow]

So you think Kamala will rile up her supporters enough to attack The Capitol?

While I dont think Harris will be front or centre - or even behind the curtain - I have no doubt that a portion or group aligned to Democratic ideals will be front and centre at the Capitol if Trump gets in

 

[Satan]

Protest march v Storming the Capitol.
Same thing aren't they?

/s

but they were tourists in a day of love

 

[big_e]

On the flip side, are you suggesting that the Left will not riot when Trump wins?
Thats almost a rolled up guarantee in my opinion.

When Gore lost a close election, there was no violence.

When H Clinton lost a close election, there was no violence.

When Trump lost a close election, crowds chanted for the assassination of the vice president, the Capitol was attacked and people died.

I know you didn't ask me the question, but I believe the violence from the right if Harris wins will be worse than January 6. And if Trump wins, there will be no riots from the left.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Dr Phil a few months ago:

"I'm nOt A poLiTiCaL pErSoN, I dOn'T knOw eNoUgH aBoUt iT"

nek minnit

 

[Sqotty from office works]

So when Trump stands in front of signs saying "Mass Deportation Now", I don't think we should be surprised if he does it.

Would be interesting if he wins and actually deports 2 million.
The eyes of many countries would be interested on the effect on the US.

 

[skipper kelly]

I look forward to you explaining how Trump’s tariffs would be good for inflation (something the worlds top 20 economists have been unable to do)

Out of interest because I love lists, who are the top 20 economists and what was the criteria for selection?

 

[Satan]

Would be interesting if he wins and actually deports 2 million.
The eyes of many countries would be interested on the effect on the US.

gardens would die and middle aged woman will need to go on tinder to have affairs, agriculture would be stuffed and there would be no busboys (what ever they do)

 

[swingdog]

gardens would die and middle aged woman will need to go on tinder to have affairs, agriculture would be stuffed and there would be no busboys (what ever they do)

They bus.

 

[skipper kelly]

People forget that Trump was President between 2016 and 2020.
What fascist or Nazi policies did he enable?

100% WW3. The world will end if Trump wins next week.

If he loses then 100% civil war, no doubt. Millions of deaths.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

gardens would die and middle aged woman will need to go on tinder to have affairs, agriculture would be stuffed and there would be no busboys (what ever they do)

We all know that.

But the street people being offered employment?
The deportees returned would be another test.
I don't think Donny could solve any of the issues that would follow the mass exodus.

 

[Satan]

We all know that.

But the street people being offered employment?
The deportees returned would be another test.
I don't think Donny could solve any of the issues that would follow the mass exodus.

Shocked not shocked gif

 

[MPMonkeys]

Dr Phil a few months ago:

"I'm nOt A poLiTiCaL pErSoN, I dOn'T knOw eNoUgH aBoUt iT"

nek minnit

Who cares what some idiot on X has posted.

 

[MPMonkeys]

100% WW3. The world will end if Trump wins next week.

If he loses then 100% civil war, no doubt. Millions of deaths.

What will happen.

Trump wins and the world goes on like normal. Small changes domestically and with foreign affairs.
Riots in LA, Portland, San Francisco and Minneapolis upon hearing news that Trump has won. CNN describe these riots as 'largely peaceful'.

 

[MPMonkeys]

When Gore lost a close election, there was no violence.

When H Clinton lost a close election, there was no violence.

When Trump lost a close election, crowds chanted for the assassination of the vice president, the Capitol was attacked and people died.

I know you didn't ask me the question, but I believe the violence from the right if Harris wins will be worse than January 6. And if Trump wins, there will be no riots from the left.

Short memory.

Protests against Trump’s election win turn violent

President-elect says demonstrations “very unfair” amid riots in Portland and marches in cities on East and West Coasts.

www.aljazeera.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/election-results-reaction-streets/index.html

Trump presidency: Protests turn violent in Portland, Oregon

Protests against the election of Donald Trump as US president turn violent in Oregon.

www.bbc.com

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/uk/violence-flares-in-washington-during-trump-inauguration-idUSKBN1550CW/

 

[skipper kelly]

What will happen.

Trump wins and the world goes on like normal. Small changes domestically and with foreign affairs.
Riots in LA, Portland, San Francisco and Minneapolis upon hearing news that Trump has won. CNN describe these riots as 'largely peaceful'.

I hope you are right. But I have read some compelling stuff about Trump being Hitler and democracy ending. I have the bunker stocked just in case.

 

[Saint Shags]

Short memory.

Protests against Trump’s election win turn violent

President-elect says demonstrations “very unfair” amid riots in Portland and marches in cities on East and West Coasts.

www.aljazeera.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/election-results-reaction-streets/index.html

Trump presidency: Protests turn violent in Portland, Oregon

Protests against the election of Donald Trump as US president turn violent in Oregon.

www.bbc.com

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/uk/violence-flares-in-washington-during-trump-inauguration-idUSKBN1550CW/

That's fair. Didn't realise they stormed the Capitol with the hope of overturning a fair election. My bad.

 

[DaTBird187]

Dr Phil a few months ago:

"I'm nOt A poLiTiCaL pErSoN, I dOn'T knOw eNoUgH aBoUt iT"

nek minnit

Well that’s gonna grab those independents they’ve been chasing.

 

[GrayRanga]

I think people have forgotten that Nazism primarily called for the eradication of the Jews. Now the word Nazi seems to be a catch all for anything that is not Leftist. It completely makes the term next to useless and is an insult to the Jewish peoples to be honest.

The Nazi's ideogy was for the extermination of enemies of the State.

Jew were the traditional enemy of the European States and their Churches, both Protestant and Roman Catholic, because their primary allegiance was to the tenets of Judaic Law.

Didn't help of course, the Old Testament Laws against usury forbade lending at a profit (interest) to other people obeying Judaic Law. Christians knew that Jews would lend to Christians (therefore excusing Christians of breaching their own New Testament laws about usury) and the role of an educated and literate group (all Jewish males are required schooling to read the Torah) with wealth who were willing to provide finance grew.

It may be argued that the Jews were the first incarnation of the non land owning Middle Class in Europe as opposed to the landed Nobles that historically held the land

I'd suggest you read up on the reasons behind the progoms in England under King Stephen in the 12 Century for a historical context. Similar Pogroms were carried out through all of Europe prior to the rise of Hitler's Nazi Party

The Nazi party was the epitome of an oligarchy, where the Party favoured its' own members in the financing of war preparations and the issuing to contracts. The Nazi Party became nouveau riche of Germany, with money and the ability to use it to influence the Government to their own betterment.

The propaganda arm of the Nazi Party could build upon the inate beliefs of a large percentage of Europeans to promote the ideal of the "Aryan" race and its' superiority to all other races to classify "others" as being "subhuman" and remove them from society.

The "subuman's" that were transported to the camps (and those killed in them) were Communists, Socialists, those with other anti Nazi belefs, Homosexuals, Romany, Freemasons, those suffering psychiatric illness or mental disability, Poles, Russians, Jews, and Jehovah Witnesses and any dissidents from Occupied counties.

Of course, many of the Jews had wealth and owned property and businesses which could be taken by either by the Party or members of the oligarchy without recompense

People who could not work, were too young, were too old or too frail were selected to go to the gas chambers soon after arrival so they didn't have to be fed

People in the camps worked to provide for profit for members of the Party or oligarchy as disposable work units to be used under minimal pay (food) and killed once a profit could be no longer made from their labour

 

[Cyber_punk]

She should have kept calling Trump a weirdo. That word got under his skin more than anything and he probably would have imploded (moreso). No idea why the dems abandoned it