USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Maggie5]

27 dollars gets you a pint of northern and a parma .

Yuk, see Gough's reply.

 

[QuietB]

I assume most pro-Trump folk who call anything to the left of Peter Dutton 'socialist' assume they'd be the wealthy types in a society with little to no public health system.

Time and time again it's been found that people are happiest in the 'socialist' Scandinavian countries where they have quite a strong public welfare system and there's less wealth inequality.

Capitalism with minimal regulations and a minimal social welfare system like we see the US pushing more and more towards is a bad recipe for a happy society. Look at South Africa to see the impact that drastic wealth inequality has on a country. Australia needs to be less like the US, not more.

Trickle down economics is also not a thing. Slashing taxes for the already-wealthy does nothing to put money in the pockets of low or middle income earners who'll most benefit from it. And as we saw during covid with the increased welfare payments, it's much better for business for additional money to be in the hands of low and middle income earners who'll actually spend it, than high income earners who won't.

Yanis Varoufakis is excellent on this subject.

One of the things he explains really well it what happened to Fed money under Trump in the Covid pandemic. The Fed printed a shit ton of cash which they then handed out to Wall Street to invest. Traditional capitalists (car manufacturers, general manufacturers) did not want the money because they could foresee that their demand base was going to collapse with inevitable return to austerity - there was simply no certainty for them and they did not want to be straddled with the debt. So all the money went to hi-tech instead who in turn used it mostly for share buy backs (or to buy Twitter ) therefore hyper inflating their own wealth.

The grand sum of this was that the money disappeared. It simply vanished into private wealth. With zero benefit to Americans. The whole lot was hoovered up by the elites.

This is the thing that infuriates me about the endless whining about debt in Victoria. At least Victoria can see what that debt has built.

In the instance of Wall Street all the debt created by this cash printing under Trump produced nothing. Just like a $500 billion increase in national debt under Abbott - Turnbull - Morrison produced nothing.

trump and conservatives in general are always endless cash and favours for the elite, and endless austerity for everyone else. And that is how we find ourselves hyper driving inequality more than any other time in history.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Not quite the same, AFAIK there's been no additional investment since the seed capital was used to start it.

Certainly we're not taxing our natural resources appropriately (IMO) to set the country up for a future where those natural resources are exhausted, we're too busy letting mining companies and their shareholders take the majority of it.

Norway's is a model we could / should have followed.

Couldn't even get a super tax on mining profits up. That should be relitigated with promise it all goes into a sovereign wealth fund.

 

[Saint Shags]

And there's the new deplorables statement.
They really needed to keep Biden quiet.

Calling Trump supporters garbage isn't going to win it.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Yanis Varoufakis is excellent on this subject.

One of the things he explains really well it what happened to Fed money under Trump in the Covid pandemic. The Fed printed a shit ton of cash which they then handed out to Wall Street to invest. Traditional capitalists (car manufacturers, general manufacturers) did not want the money because they could foresee that their demand base was going to collapse with inevitable return to austerity - there was simply no certainty for them and they did not want to be straddled with the debt. So all the money went to hi-tech instead who in turn used it mostly for share buy backs (or to buy Twitter ) therefore hyper inflating their own wealth.

The grand sum of this was that the money disappeared. It simply vanished into private wealth. With zero benefit to Americans. The whole lot was hoovered up by the elites.

This is the thing that infuriates me about the endless whining about debt in Victoria. At least Victoria can see what that debt has built.

In the instance of Wall Street all the debt created by this cash printing under Trump produced nothing. Just like a $500 billion increase in national debt under Abbott - Turnbull - Morrison produced nothing.

trump and conservatives in general are always endless cash and favours for the elite, and endless austerity for everyone else. And that is how we find ourselves hyper driving inequality more than any other time in history.

Total U.S. Billionaire Wealth: Up 88% over Four Years - Institute for Policy Studies

Total U.S. Billionaire Wealth Up 88% over Four Years

ips-dc.org

Four years ago, the U.S. entered the Covid-19 pandemic. Forbes published its 34th annual billionaire survey shortly after with data keyed to March 18, 2020. On that day, the U.S. had 614 billionaires who owned a combined wealth of $2.947 trillion.

Four years later, March 18, 2024, the US has 737 billionaires with a combined wealth of $5.529 trillion, an 87.6 percent increase of $2.58 trillion, according to IPS calculations of Forbes Real Time Billionaire Data. (Thank you, Forbes!)

 

[Happy Mastenator]

And there's the new deplorables statement.
They really needed to keep Biden quiet.

Calling Trump supporters garbage isn't going to win it.

Oh look it’s misrepresenting what he said - clearly said the demonisation of Latino’s is garbage



I guess if the shoe fits though....

 

[ams4crows]

Well Trump is already sprouting that bad things are happening concerning voting.

Predictable and on schedule

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Replace Swans with Saints and 2009, you have me. She should win, its hard to believe that enough woman & clear sighted middle class voters will not decide to have nothing to do with MAGA.

Like I keep saying, something like 155,000,000 Americans voted in 2020. Who can even pretend to know what’s going on in the heads of any of them.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Well Trump is already sprouting that bad things are happening concerning voting.

Predictable and on schedule

While the bad things that are actually happening are his MAGA trying to voter suppress. Go figure.

 

[faible]

Well Trump is already sprouting that bad things are happening concerning voting.

Predictable and on schedule

He's been lining this one up from a long, long way out.

It'll be the same as last time, except his believers have been primed for years now, not just weeks / months, and there's people in places to really cause problems.

They desperately need an AEC equivalent and to clean up their electoral system because it's failing the hell out of the American people.

 

[King Patty]

Not sure what you're getting at with the bolded.

Getting at people on pensions can continue to work as much or little as they want without effecting their pension received and reporting obligations

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

No that is not what he said. He claims that this is what pushes people to the fringes.

Well he phrased it a little carelessly. Big whoop. There’s no denying it’s a factor.

I’m not saying it’s not an appalling state of affairs, but anyone that doesn’t see how sullen right wingers - because of their very sullenness - can get pushed into even greater resentfulness by being called out or called wrong or mocked is in la la land.

 

[faible]

Getting at people on pensions can continue to work without effecting their pension received and reporting obligations being no better off.

tbh this was not at all where I thought you were going with that comment, my apologies.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Good odds on her for a "smart" punter

Yeah that means zero to me!

 

[GreyCrow]

Did he choose Porto Rico? Or did he just land there?

The problem with Trumps rambling and weaving nonsense is pretty soon it it gives a green light for others to step a bit further, and then a tiny bit more, and it normalises insults and slander, and soon enough someone says something entirely disgusting thinking they were just going with the flow.

That joke is the quiet bit out loud.

That joke is who they are.

Agree - its very pro-wrestling where the next gimmick takes it a step further until you are raping a doll in the ring - and apparently thats the line

 

[GreyCrow]

So project 25: Gut the department of education and repeal child labour protection laws.
A match made in heaven for rich donors.
Cheap child labour.

And why?

Because your illegals will be deported

Get Jenny from number 15 to weed your lawn

 

[OneGreatClub]

https://archive.is/2024.09.08-154056/https://www.wired.com/story/project-good-old-usa-russia-2024-election/

​

DOJ: Russia Aimed Propaganda at Gamers, Minorities to Swing 2024 Election​

In the conference room, Gambashidze was laying out his plans for a new target: Along with his colleagues, he began drafting what would become known as the Good Old USA Project. The project was supposed to influence the outcome of the US presidential election in favor of former president Donald Trump, specifically targeting certain minorities, swing-state residents, and online gamers, among others, in a scheme that included a full-time team dedicated to the cause.

 

[Saint Shags]

Oh look it’s misrepresenting what he said - clearly said the demonisation of Latino’s is garbage



I guess if the shoe fits though....

It doesn't matter what he may have wanted to say. It was badly worded. And gives Maga just ammunition.

 

[GreyCrow]

Yanis Varoufakis is excellent on this subject.

One of the things he explains really well it what happened to Fed money under Trump in the Covid pandemic. The Fed printed a shit ton of cash which they then handed out to Wall Street to invest. Traditional capitalists (car manufacturers, general manufacturers) did not want the money because they could foresee that their demand base was going to collapse with inevitable return to austerity - there was simply no certainty for them and they did not want to be straddled with the debt. So all the money went to hi-tech instead who in turn used it mostly for share buy backs (or to buy Twitter ) therefore hyper inflating their own wealth.

The grand sum of this was that the money disappeared. It simply vanished into private wealth. With zero benefit to Americans. The whole lot was hoovered up by the elites.

This is the thing that infuriates me about the endless whining about debt in Victoria. At least Victoria can see what that debt has built.

In the instance of Wall Street all the debt created by this cash printing under Trump produced nothing. Just like a $500 billion increase in national debt under Abbott - Turnbull - Morrison produced nothing.

trump and conservatives in general are always endless cash and favours for the elite, and endless austerity for everyone else. And that is how we find ourselves hyper driving inequality more than any other time in history.

There was a similar argument ooh lets say 20 years ago when Howard and Costello were banking everything - then giving it away in baby bonuses - that the better model would be infrastructure spending ie a visible sign of money being spent

iirc they were so focused on being '' good money managers '' they were shy about getting close to red ink

 

[Chief]

Well he phrased it a little carelessly. Big whoop. There’s no denying it’s a factor.

He mentioned a specific scenario. (I diverged in one post - perils of watching TV while posting).

I’m not saying it’s not an appalling state of affairs, but anyone that doesn’t see how sullen right wingers - because of their very sullenness- can get pushed into even greater resentfulness by being called out of called wrong or mocked is in la la land.

"Can be" - as I said, there's no move to the far right without other factors in place already, including con artists rocking up. Blaming a few oversensitive people for it is for the inhabitants of la-la land. Those oversensitive people have ALWAYS existed.

 

[Baldur]

Well he phrased it a little carelessly. Big whoop. There’s no denying it’s a factor.

I’m not saying it’s not an appalling state of affairs, but anyone that doesn’t see how sullen right wingers - because of their very sullenness- can get pushed into even greater resentfulness by being called out of called wrong or mocked is in la la land.

I read a study many years ago that showed that great apes have a sense of fairness. I believe most people have an ethical side based on fairness and if you engage with them respectfully, it is possible to reach a middle ground. But treat them disrespectfully and they will seek justification from extremists, who will provide it to them. If you are insulting them & treating their beliefs with contempt, they are very likely to listen to those who tell them you are evil.

It is the extremists who speak the loudest and drown out the rest. When the left denigrates those they disagree with, they are simply driving them into the arms of creatures like Trump, and vice versa of course. When you feel like the MAGA types (voters not the evil extremist leadership) are beyond the pale, just think that they are being driven by the same impulses to think the same of you.

This is why I believe the culture wars were begun by the left. Sure, they were seeking fairness, an excellent cause, but far too often it was attempted by denigrating, insulting, and disrespecting the very people they were expecting to give something up.

So yes, treating people disrespectfully can drive them to extremes. To my shame this is something I am too often guilty of, I get so angry at what I see as injustice I just hit out, instead of bottling it and trying to engage their sense of fairness. It is so cathartic but counterproductive.

This is why I put so many posters on ignore, I cannot trust myself to engage respectfully.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I read a study many years ago that showed that great apes have a sense of fairness. I believe most people have an ethical side based on fairness and if you engage with them respectfully, it is possible to reach a middle ground. But treat them disrespectfully and they will seek justification from extremists, who will provide it to them. If you are insulting them & treating their beliefs with contempt, they are very likely to listen to those who tell them you are evil.

It is the extremists who speak the loudest and drown out the rest. When the left denigrates those they disagree with, they are simply driving them into the arms of creatures like Trump, and vice versa of course. When you feel like the MAGA types (voters not the evil extremist leadership) are beyond the pale, just think that they are being driven by the same impulses to think the same of you.

This is why I believe the culture wars were begun by the left. Sure, they were seeking fairness, an excellent cause, but far too often it was attempted by denigrating, insulting, and disrespecting the very people they were expecting to give something up.

So yes, treating people disrespectfully can drive them to extremes. To my shame this is something I am too often guilty of, I get so angry at what I see as injustice I just hit out, instead of bottling it and trying to engage their sense of fairness. It is so cathartic but counterproductive.

This is why I put so many posters on ignore, I cannot trust myself to engage respectfully.

Sorry, busy day today so don't have time to fully reply to your ample post, but I will say I don't agree the culture wars were started by the left.

I think they were clearly started by the right. The tragedy is some on the left rise to the bait every. single. effing. time.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

He mentioned a specific scenario. (I diverged in one post - perils of watching TV while posting).



"Can be" - as I said, there's no move to the far right without other factors in place already, including con artists rocking up. Blaming a few oversensitive people for it is for the inhabitants of la-la land. Those oversensitive people have ALWAYS existed.

OK.

 

[Saint Shags]

OneGreatClub not sure why you find the posts funny.

I've been highly critical of Trump and what he stands for.

I've only stated that I believe the Dems through Biden may have just had their own, 'Own Goal' moment. And whilst no where near the level of what has been mentioned by the Maga crew. It would be naive and reckless to not call out when the other side stuffs up.

 

[GreyCrow]

I've only stated that I believe the Dems through Biden may have just had their own, 'Own Goal' moment. And whilst no where near the level of what has been mentioned by the Maga crew. It would be naive and reckless to not call out when the other side stuffs up.

I disagree on this - it was a badly worded attempt by Biden to get a point across

Not a deliberately told joke or comment

I do find it funny that the people who call Biden senile ( not you) will take this as clear thinking speech. Its obvious he is searching for words - which leaves gaps for context to be missed