USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Magruder]

Let's agree to disagree.

I will just say that the statement in your post that I bolded is a post modernist position, which bases itself on the rejection of objective truth.

The Marxist standpoint is that objective truth exists, and mankind's efforts to cognise it, through the development of scientific theory (via his own interaction with the material world) produces ever closer approximations to the objective truth.

Post modernism is a right wing, pro capitalist philosophical view which ultimately claims that it is impossible to understand the development of human society, and therefore impossible to change it. The standpoint of postmodernism is to defend the status quo by proclaiming the hoplessness of scientific thought.

Your positi9n is dogmatic. Rooted in faith rather than rationality.

I guess that’s my main issue with Marxism. It fails to see itself as interpreting human events and circumstances but rather as the arbiter of objective meaning. In turn future events can only be viewed through a prism that posits history as an a predetermined arc.

 

[IlovethePies]

This technology can also be weaponised against revolutionary forces. As we have seen recently, all it takes is a fascist regime to infiltrate the supply chain.

( I am assuming that you are referring to the Israeli regime and its interference in the supply chain for electronic devices destined for Lebanon, and then instigating an act of state terrorism by exploding them?)

Yes of course, the forces of reaction can use these technologies as well.

But in the end one must ask oneself. Who will prevail? The forces of reaction, who have to shield all their internet communications under a veil of secrecy, because their actions represent conspiracies against the vast majority?

Or will it be the forces of social revolution, ie the international working class, who have no need to cloak their communications in secrecy, because the communication of socialist, anti-capitalist strategy will represent the class interests of the vast preponderance of the world population?

 

[Magruder]

IlovethePies

Kudos for conducting 4 or 5 simultaneous convos…

Not easy.

 

[Mick F]

How did you know the specific articles to which I was referring?

Are you going to keep digging here? I'm happy to leave it at you having an interpretation of Trump's motives that is generous but unsupported by evidence.

You're not on your own, lots of his supporters have convinced themselves of the same thing.

The truly moral man sees and understands right from wrong, and is simply unable to do wrong. To support Trump requires blindness - the absence of one’s better emotions.

 

[IlovethePies]

Your positi9n is dogmatic. Rooted in faith rather than rationality.

I guess that’s my main issue with Marxism. It fails to see itself as interpreting human events and circumstances but rather as the arbiter of objective meaning.

Dear Magruder,
I appreciate very much your posts.
I am enjoying the discussion with you.

I urge you to reconsider your assessment of Marxism.
A Marxist standpoint does not place itself as the "arbiter of objective meaning".
Marxism rather places at the disposal of mankind the necessary scientific knowledge and concepts for arriving at an understanding of an ever changing reality.
This understanding is based on all of the accumulated previous knowledge, which is then the basis for grasping the current reality.

Marxism is the method through which the working class can cognise reality. It is not the arbiter of objective reality. It is simply grasping this reality.

 

[IlovethePies]

How did you know the specific articles to which I was referring?

Are you going to keep digging here? I'm happy to leave it at you having an interpretation of Trump's motives that is generous but unsupported by evidence.

You're not on your own, lots of his supporters have convinced themselves of the same thing.

I dont have to know the authors to reaise that they are wrong.

Any "analyst" who claims that Trump merely represents his own egotistical self interest is either
a) an idiot,
or
b) consciously engaging in mass deception.

 

[rank and file]

Trump loses, Ted Cruz loses, Josh Hawley loses, and the dems win the house and the senate. That would be the dream. Feel like it’s not beyond the realms of possibility now.

Can but hope.

"Where's Hope?"
Trump when he was faced with a difficult decision as president
Hope cried when she got subbed into one of Trumps trials and had to take the stand.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Credit where it's due, your Monty Python quote here was well timed.

As an intellectual philosopher myself, I'll add this: the ideal amount of time one should spend pondering philosophy is zero. Just be pragmatic and get on with it m8.

I’m more the stand up philosopher from life of brian

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I dont have to know the authors to reaise that they are wrong.

Any "analyst" who claims that Trump merely represents his own egotistical self interest is either
a) an idiot,
or
b) consciously engaging in mass deception.

You mustn't realise how pompous you sound.

So, you're dismissing the opinions of numerous highly qualified professionals to support your own unbreakable bias based in undergraduate training in philosophy and political science. Fair enough, you do you.

 

[CD Xbow]

The technology that exists today has strengthened the hand of revolutionary forces.

Now I know you're a comedian.

 

[iDon]

Any new polls dropped lately?

Need a gear shift from whatever has been discussed in the last 2 pages.

 

[IlovethePies]

You mustn't realise how pompous you sound.

So, you're dismissing the opinions of numerous highly qualified professionals to support your own unbreakable bias based in undergraduate training in philosophy and political science. Fair enough, you do you.

How do you know that I am not also a "highly qualified professional in philosophy and political science"" ?

Your bias is glaring.

 

[Mick F]

Any new polls dropped lately?

Need a gear shift from whatever has been discussed in the last 2 pages.

Far greater number of Republicans voting early. In Pennsylvania, the elderly are voting 68/32 Harris. Similar numbers amongst women has Trump asking close allies ‘why women don’t like him’. Rather than employ the descriptor ‘sleazebag’, they promptly reminded him that he was maintaining a healthy advantage amongst male voters.

An AtlasIntel poll conducted from Oct. 30 to Oct. 31 showed Trump ahead with a 50% to 48% lead over Harris. Suggests the gender gap is not yet a chasm.

Harris out to $2.20, back into $2.10.

 

[Satan]

Any new polls dropped lately?

Need a gear shift from whatever has been discussed in the last 2 pages.

Lando is on pole at the moment , carnage in Brazil

 

[IlovethePies]

You mustn't realise how pompous you sound.

So, you're dismissing the opinions of numerous highly qualified professionals to support your own unbreakable bias based in undergraduate training in philosophy and political science. Fair enough, you do you.

When the truth is not quite what we want to hear, it sounds like the bearer of the message is an a"**hole.

 

[rank and file]

Credit where it's due, your Monty Python quote here was well timed.

As an intellectual philosopher myself, I'll add this: the ideal amount of time one should spend pondering philosophy is zero. Just be pragmatic and get on with it m8.

I think if you are going to go down the philosophy rabbit hole you may as well start with Bukowski and Hunter S (not B).
More relevant in 2024.

 

[Satan]

We need Blackcat

 

[rumply]

Sounds like women are making the effort and voting in large numbers, that's all thats needed to ensure Trump is banished for good.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

When the truth is not quite what we want to hear, it sounds like the bearer of the message is an a"**hole.

You have literally failed to demonstrate your version of the truth. You are simply spouting from undergraduate text-books and ignoring the practical impossibility of your position.

It doesn't make you an a'hole because you're not bringing a message of truth. There are other fitting descriptions, though.

How do you know that I am not also a "highly qualified professional in philosophy and political science"" ?

Your bias is glaring.

Let's just say it's obvious that you're not. And if you were, you would not be so naive as to arrogantly dismiss the opinions of highly qualified professionals in other technical fields. This is quite the tell.

 

[Blue1980]

The ease with which the elite can manipulate public consciousness is actually in decline. This is because there is a growing and profound alienation from both major political parties in Australia, and of the entire political set up.

The Australian ruling elite is very concerned about the chasm opening up between the wealthy elite and its political representatives, with the vast majority of the population (ie the workign class).

The Quantas upgrade scandal only keeps living because elements within the Labor party keep leaking to the media their bitter criticisms of Albanese, who they fear is going to cost Labor the election - and consequently their own pleasant material positions.

Likewise in the US, vast masses of people are disgusted by the entire official framework.

This is why the ruling class in all countries is moving towards censorship of the internet. The ruling class is well aware that as the capitalist crisis deepens, the internet poses enormous dangers to their political domination. As social conditions deteriorate, as the threats of war and dictatorship intensify, vast masses will be looking for answers, alternatives. Socialist ideology will suddenly attract enormous interest.

The potential for socialist ideology to spread over the internet is a nightmare in the brain of the capitalist class.

There needs to be some sort of plan though, not just working class revolt > something something > freedom of working class.

Is there even a concept of a plan?

 

[happy_eagle]

Lando is on pole at the moment , carnage in Brazil

Absolute major fraud in Sao Paolo, must be investigated immediately.

 

[IlovethePies]

You have literally failed to demonstrate your version of the truth. You are simply spouting from undergraduate text-books and ignoring the practical impossibility of your position.

It doesn't make you an a'hole because you're not bringing a message of truth. There are other fitting descriptions, though.



Let's just say it's obvious that you're not. And if you were, you would not be so naive as to arrogantly dismiss the opinions of highly qualified professionals in other technical fields. This is quite the tell.

Hate to say this mate, but your claim that Trump does not represent any class interests proves beyond any doubt that you have absolutely no clue.

I'll leave it there.

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Hate to say this mate, but your claim that Trump does not represent any class interests proves beyond any doubt that you have absolutely no clue.

I'll leave it there.

Don't resort to misquoting, I said that he does not consciously represent any class interests. As I conceded, any such representation would occur but only as a by-product of the deals he is willing to make based purely on self interest.

Yes, let's leave it here, I'm over your disingenuous arguments.

 

[OneGreatClub]

TLR

"The Night Watch" is arguably the best of Sir Terry Pratchett's books

One of the characters in the novel is Reg Shoe was/is an idealist and wannabe revolutionary in life as he is in death Unfortunately, he was repeatedly struck by crossbow bolts and his revolutionary zeal caused him to ignore his injuries and continue fighting. Shortly after succumbing to his wounds, he returned as a zombie at bcomes a member of the City Watch as one of the Watch's undead

Don't forget Reg, (played by John Cleese) in the "Life Of Brian" the the self-proclaimed leader of the People's Front of Judea continually spouting jargon and quoting the revolutionary constitution than at taking any sort of action

But what did the Roman's do for us?

Suffering through your epistles which sound like an undergraduate member of the Socialist Action debating team in 1973

I'd really sugget you read Prattchet, he condenses more of the human condition. poverty, politics and realpolitik in a book which i funnier all Politcal theory espoused in your page long posts

No matter what you post, there will alway be Reg in my mind's voice

I have enjoyed many of his books on audio. Incredible.