USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris

[Chief]

 

[magpie_marty]

Can you pls link your source and paste the full quote here m8?

Are you saying Trump has never been critical of judges or the DOJ ??
But just for you the link.

Trump is escalating threats for dissenters — and now suggesting jail: analyst

Former President Donald Trump is speaking more openly than ever about criminalizing dissent, Aaron Blake wrote for The Washington Post."At a rally Monday in Pennsylvania, the former president said for at least the fourth time that criticizing judges and justices either is or should be illegal...

www.rawstory.com

 

[IlovethePies]

I get what you are saying, I maybe as little as 5 years ago thought a more socialist state wasn’t possible due to lack of $$$ to spend etc.

I now recognise that is horeshit, admittedly us and the rest of the western world do a way better job of having a proper welfare state, health care etc than the US but there are still way too many vested interests catered to.

Thing is I think we can get there (maybe naively) by left leaning parties being in power and moving them to the left.

Unfortunately in a lot of history, like the Great Depression and WWII shows you don’t get the working/middle classes looked after until there is total crisis. (LDR’s new deal, social welfare state created after WWII in the western world)

Going accelerationist in the US could go one of two ways. Could be like the aftermath of 1989 in China and just leads to some right wing authoritarian stronghold, or it could lead to the collapse of the current system with dismantling of the current power structure of US politics and new structure for the electoral college, house of reps and senate.

In the US people aren’t as repressed as China circa 1989 and more divided, so could lead to states breaking away, and terror attscks like the troubles in Ireland.

You are forgetting the third way. The working class could overthrow the entire, rotten edifice.
The working class is unaware of how much power it wields. Acting in co-ordination, it could paralyse the entire capitalist economy.

It could destroy Wall St in one stroke by declaring a general strike, closing down the profit gouging and sending share prices into a nosedive.

The working class could sweep society with its energy, and draw all other struggling social layers along for the ride, the ride to expropriate the billionaires, the hedge funds and banks, and make this wealth available for social need, not profit.

But it can only do this if it has at its head a revolutionary party to co-ordinate its actions, and to explain to it the lessons of history.

There is more than enough wealth in society for socialism. At the moment, this enormous social wealth is hoarded by a thin layer of financial parasites who perform no social function other than destablise, sabotage, even destroy rational production processes for their own private profit interests.

Once their wealth is made available to all of society,there will be a transformation in every aspect of human life.

I am not sure what "accelerationist" means, but when you discuss social dynamics it is always essential to analyse reality from the standpoint of social classes, their competing interests, and how they will advance these interests.

If the current system collapses, as you suggest, it won't reemerge as a new structure of electoral colleges, house of reps etc.

There will be a massive class struggle, and it will end up either in fascist dictatorship and barbarism, or the establishment of a proletarian state, as in October 1917, but this time, destined to spread across the entire world.

 

[IlovethePies]

That's a generous description. He's a Trump-simping f***wit.

Many of us suspected he was a f***wit before he took over twitter, and in the time since, he has proven it beyond doubt.

F**** wits are dangerous when they are billionaires and own a gigantic social media platform.

 

[IlovethePies]

Right, so plenty of work there to be done outside of this election.

This is about the 2024 Presidential Election though.

Do you acknowledge then that the best way for Trump to be kept out of the White House, thus buying more time to organise, promote awareness etc of socialist groups and goals, is to vote for Harris?

Or do you prefer to have Trump take office and for him and his party to further erode workers rights and the ability to organise, in a strategic play to accelerate the conditions for your revolution? Knowing that it comes with risks that workers will have fewer rights and worse conditions, potentially for a very long time, if your aims fail to eventuate.

This is a good question.
My answer is unequivocally no.
The SEP makes clear that the working class must utterly tear itself away from any conception that Harris is a "lesser evil".
If a Harris administration were to emerge from this chaos, what would it do?

a) escalate the war in Ukraine. Send more long range missiles to Zelensky... on top of all the previous red lines crossed. What's next? US troops to Ukraine...and daring Putin to start a nuclear war.

b) keep sending arms, weaponry to Netanyahu as his regime rampages through Lebanon, and provokes a war with Iran.

c) drive up the exploitation of the working class through the AFL-CIO bureaucracy by continuing to impose below inflation wage deals (new hires $20/hr) and brutal working conditions. Only in this way can the continued functioning of Wall st be defended. The US debt is exploding exponentially, investors world wide will only back the dollar if the next administration proves that it can gouge enough profits from the working class to sustain profit rates and therefore maintain confidence in the US dollar.

d) Gut social spending (health, education, social security) to pay for the massive expansion of the US military.

d) Ultimately, turn to the US military to step in and repress the inevitable opposition provoked by grotesque inequality levels and the drive to war.
In other words, the Democrats, just like the Republicans, will sooner rather than later turn to dictatorial forms of rule.

To tell workers to vote for the Democrats would be a historic blunder, because it would sow confusion about where events are heading, and from whom they must break.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Are you saying Trump has never been critical of judges or the DOJ ??
But just for you the link.

Trump is escalating threats for dissenters — and now suggesting jail: analyst

Former President Donald Trump is speaking more openly than ever about criminalizing dissent, Aaron Blake wrote for The Washington Post."At a rally Monday in Pennsylvania, the former president said for at least the fourth time that criticizing judges and justices either is or should be illegal...

www.rawstory.com

That's a heavily biased article who's "source" is another heavily biased article that takes quotes out of context m8. A famous quote by me that many of my fans have shared is "long-form issues can not be summed up by short-form content."

I'm told that some have even had this line tattooed upon themselves (EasternTiger?) It sums up the reason why some people hate Joe Rogan, for example.

Even though it is 2024, many people are still believing everything they read online without scepticism if it backs up their biases. A recent example was carltonchelsea when she shared an obviously fake tweet purportedly written by Trump's son.

Rather than anger, we must show compassion for these folks and teach them essential critical thinking abilities!

 

[IlovethePies]

Contested Marx

Would love to hear what you contest about Marx.

 

[Bloods86]

This is a good question.
My answer is unequivocally no.
The SEP makes clear that the working class must utterly tear itself away from any conception that Harris is a "lesser evil".
If a Harris administration were to emerge from this chaos, what would it do?

a) escalate the war in Ukraine. Send more long range missiles to Zelensky... on top of all the previous red lines crossed. What's next? US troops to Ukraine...and daring Putin to start a nuclear war.

b) keep sending arms, weaponry to Netanyahu as his regime rampages through Lebanon, and provokes a war with Iran.

c) drive up the exploitation of the working class through the AFL-CIO bureaucracy by continuing to impose below inflation wage deals (new hires $20/hr) and brutal working conditions. Only in this way can the continued functioning of Wall st be defended. The US debt is exploding exponentially, investors world wide will only back the dollar if the next administration proves that it can gouge enough profits from the working class to sustain profit rates and therefore maintain confidence in the US dollar.

d) Gut social spending (health, education, social security) to pay for the massive expansion of the US military.

d) Ultimately, turn to the US military to step in and repress the inevitable opposition provoked by grotesque inequality levels and the drive to war.
In other words, the Democrats, just like the Republicans, will sooner rather than later turn to dictatorial forms of rule.

To tell workers to vote for the Democrats would be a historic blunder, because it would sow confusion about where events are heading, and from whom they must break.

Well, the more people think like you, the more likely it is for Trump to be the next US President. Pathetic really.

Where none of the above would be better, most would be worse, except in your eyes, maybe cutting off funding/equipment to Ukraine, to help Russia continue it's imperialism and ethnic cleansing, and move closer to additional NATO borders that it pretends to be concerned about (all of which you seem more than comfortable with).

 

[IlovethePies]

Well, the more people think like you, the more likely it is for Trump to be the next US President. Pathetic really.

Where none of the above would be better, most would be worse, except in your eyes, maybe cutting off funding/equipment to Ukraine, to help Russia continue it's imperialism and ethnic cleansing, and move closer to additional NATO borders that it pretends to be concerned about (all of which you seem more than comfortable with).

Ok Bloods, sad that you have taken that from what I wrote.

Russia is not carrying out ethnic cleansing in Ukraine

If you want to oppose ethnic cleansing you should be talking about what Israel is doing right now.

I am opposed to war, everywhere in the world. That is what I am fighting for.