USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris

[Chief]

Continued in Part 2

USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

The debate is going to be meaningless - they are all just soundbyte farms for each side to use against one another. The attention span of the swinging voter is shorter and shorter (and each side is rusted on in their support). This is but a spectacle rather than substance.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Crankyhawk]

Of course

25 Lies Kamala Harris Told In Her Debate Against Trump

Here are 25 of the biggest falsehoods Kamala Harris told during her Tuesday night debate with Donald Trump.

thefederalist.com

SNAFU.

sigh TIme to refute the federalist BS. Even though I know there is bugger all chance you respond, I cannot let bullshit go unchallenged.

1. Middle class kid
- the definition of middle class is elastic. Yes tertiary educated parents with full time jobs is affluent, its certainly not silver spoon Vanderbilt/ Trump level though. Middle class has always been somewhat of a broad church

2. I already disproved the IRS bullshit, but in case you are slow the IRS only looked at the percentage of tax reduced, not the actual dollar value. When dollar values are considered, a wealthy person gained a much greater dollar improvement than a low or middle income person.

3. Trumps "sales tax" is a reference to the tariff. Sloppy characterisation - sure - but a tariff increases the price of every imported component and as such the price increase is passed on to the consumer. Not sure how the tariff gets charged to country of origin, maybe Trump thinks that these countries are so desperate to sell they will lower their prices? Magical thinking when there is a relative shortage of goods

4. Open for debate. None of the direct attacks (pearl harbour, WW2) quoted in the article threatened US sovereignty or its democratic system, while Jan 6 was an attempt to pressure and threaten the chambers to not ratify the election.

5. High probability that Trump is lying about project 2025. The opinion that Trump is going to do Project 2025 is highly plausible given the links with persons involved in Trumps campaign, and Trumps denials mean nothing given the number and frequency of existing lies. In amongst the puzzling shit like people eating cats and dogs in springfield.

6. The closest I can find in the Womens Health Protection Act to a "full term abortion" is this clause

(17) Core human rights treaties ratified by the United States protect access to abortion. For example, in 2018, the UN Human Rights Committee, which oversees implementation of the ICCPR, made clear that the right to life, enshrined in Article 6 of the ICCPR, at a minimum requires governments to provide safe, legal, and effective access to abortion where a person’s life and health is at risk, or when carrying a pregnancy to term would cause substantial pain or suffering. The Committee stated that governments must not impose restrictions on abortion which subject women and girls to physical or mental pain or suffering, discriminate against them, arbitrarily interfere with their privacy, or place them at risk of undertaking unsafe abortions. Furthermore, the Committee stated that governments should remove existing barriers that deny effective access to safe and legal abortion, refrain from introducing new barriers to abortion, and prevent the stigmatization of those seeking abortion.

This is not a call for full term abortion. It is a clause that supports a persons right to terminate if carrying to term would cause substantial pain and suffering. The actual termination would be performed much earlier. Or maybe conservative daughters would be too scared to take action until full term.

7. There already are examples (I have linked earlier, will link again) where pro life laws made medical care difficult (as doctors are scared of legal ramifications) - the example is of a woman having an incomplete miscarriage unable to access a D&C because the foetal heart was beating (way before viability and with zero chance of survival)

Woman said she went into sepsis before she could get lifesaving abortion care in Texas

A Texas woman said she had to wait until she developed sepsis before physicians could provide her with lifesaving abortion care.

abcnews.go.com

8. Again, Trumps denials mean nothing given history of lies.

9. Inferential and not evidence of 9 month abortions. The federalists have used suggestion to claiim fact where there is no fact.

10. Can't say one way or another - but the bill was something that conservative republicans were happy with until trump told them to kill it for wedge purposes. My opinion is that no policy is worse than some policy and that the "invasion" rate was higher due to the lack of policy - but cannot be proven or disproven.

11. SCOTUS immunity - the issue is more that Trump will try to expand the definition of "official act" and/or that matters already proceeding against trump are being delayed due to having to decide if "official act" or not. This is already a commonly held opinion. In this case the federalist claims it is misleading (ie not out and out lie) so ok, I can accept that

12. I don't see the problem. Her personal view is she would like to ban fracking but she isn't going to make moves to do so as she knows she doesn't have the political capital to do so. Sign of the immaturity of the federalists that they can only think of a president in terms of "I want this therefore it happens". Suckers looking for a dictator, which seems at odds with their libertarian roots...

13. Federalist mischaracterisation/ overinterpretation of a headshake. Headshake could be at Trumps description of the events, not a denial of the bail fund.

14. Trump never deployed the national guard. And by promoting his election theft lie he was inciting followers to take action. Federalist is doing very selective revisionism here.

15. On the question of whether police forces died as a result of J6, Federalist quotes case of Brian Sicknick

District of Columbia Chief Medical Examiner Francisco J. Diaz found that Sicknick suffered two strokes nearly eight hours after being sprayed with a chemical irritant during the riot. Diaz told the Post that Sicknick died of natural causes, but “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

Wouldn't it be nice if Federalist would take whole context instead of selective shit? Or that they were held to account for it (pretending to be a media organisation)

16. Federalist revisionism. It has already entered popular culture that Trumps "fine people" quote has been associated with the Charlottesville white supremacist march.

17. Its very easy to misinterpret and reinterpret what Trump says during 2024 as he is incoherent and difficult to follow. The bloodbath comments are ambiguous. Kamala has taken one interpretation, the federalist the other.

18. Splitting hairs the federalists are. Trump is already quoted on the 2022 invasion as

"“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump said in a radio interview with “The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.” “He used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy.”"

Not a significant stretch to saying that Trump would let Putin do whatever he wants. Ukraine is not a state of NATO so the attributed deflection by federalist (about it was getting NATO states to pay bills) is not relevant.

19. Trump himself claimed Orban (an autocrat) as a leader he admired during the debate.

20. Agree this is misleading, though I don't know of any time when the USA is not involved in a foreign war for a very long time.

21. My recollection was that it was Trump policy to withdraw and Biden did not take steps to modify the schedule. Blame should go to both sides here.

22. Um times change, positions change. And you know what dumb**** federalists, on this issue I don't give a flying ****, I would be happy for her to take all the ****ing guns.

23. Southern border was not secure under trump, there were still illegal immigrants. Less media scrutiny of it, likely for the same reason in Australia (biased media).

24. Bit stupid to imply that police budgets can never be touched. Very big goverment of these federalists.

25. IVF support is an idiotic policy, poor allocation of funds. And the state based abortion bans are making the status of the in vitro foetuses questionable in terms of storage and destruction of excess, among other issues.

Roe v Wade: ‘Could abortion bans put my IVF at risk?’

Women in the US are worried that changes to abortion laws could affect their fertility treatment.

www.bbc.com

So after wading through that shit show (again showing that the political types that write this shit are way less smart than myself who is just one dumb**** with access to google) there aren't 25 lies. There are 3 (10, 11 and 20)

 

[Crankyhawk]

Hahahahah.



Yeah i think that a professor and scientist are reasonably middle class compared to a trust fund baby


Lol. Yeah he gave a stack of money to billionaires. This isn't controversial. They are trying to use a closely defined % reduction rather than total amount

The 2017 Trump Tax Law Was Skewed to the Rich, Expensive, and Failed to Deliver on Its Promises | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Policymakers and the public should understand that the 2017 Trump tax law was skewed to the rich, was expensive and eroded the U.S. revenue base, and failed to deliver promised economic benefits. A 2025 course correction is needed.

www.cbpp.org

Pretty clear that tariffs across the board are an increase of cost and are form sales tax.



Again, clear that she was saying worst attack on democracy, WW1 and WW2 never threatened the homeland or their form of government. J6 did.



Everyone knows that Project 2025 is on the cards if he wins. He's saying no now because it's toxic but he and the party support everything in there.

That's just the first 5 listed. Nothing remotely like immigrants eating dogs, abortion of babies after born, rubbish that he was saying.

I should have read the rest of the thread before typing my reply

 

[Blue1980]

sigh TIme to refute the federalist BS. Even though I know there is bugger all chance you respond, I cannot let bullshit go unchallenged.

1. Middle class kid
- the definition of middle class is elastic. Yes tertiary educated parents with full time jobs is affluent, its certainly not silver spoon Vanderbilt/ Trump level though. Middle class has always been somewhat of a broad church

2. I already disproved the IRS bullshit, but in case you are slow the IRS only looked at the percentage of tax reduced, not the actual dollar value. When dollar values are considered, a wealthy person gained a much greater dollar improvement than a low or middle income person.

3. Trumps "sales tax" is a reference to the tariff. Sloppy characterisation - sure - but a tariff increases the price of every imported component and as such the price increase is passed on to the consumer. Not sure how the tariff gets charged to country of origin, maybe Trump thinks that these countries are so desperate to sell they will lower their prices? Magical thinking when there is a relative shortage of goods

4. Open for debate. None of the direct attacks (pearl harbour, WW2) quoted in the article threatened US sovereignty or its democratic system, while Jan 6 was an attempt to pressure and threaten the chambers to not ratify the election.

5. High probability that Trump is lying about project 2025. The opinion that Trump is going to do Project 2025 is highly plausible given the links with persons involved in Trumps campaign, and Trumps denials mean nothing given the number and frequency of existing lies. In amongst the puzzling shit like people eating cats and dogs in springfield.

6. The closest I can find in the Womens Health Protection Act to a "full term abortion" is this clause

(17) Core human rights treaties ratified by the United States protect access to abortion. For example, in 2018, the UN Human Rights Committee, which oversees implementation of the ICCPR, made clear that the right to life, enshrined in Article 6 of the ICCPR, at a minimum requires governments to provide safe, legal, and effective access to abortion where a person’s life and health is at risk, or when carrying a pregnancy to term would cause substantial pain or suffering. The Committee stated that governments must not impose restrictions on abortion which subject women and girls to physical or mental pain or suffering, discriminate against them, arbitrarily interfere with their privacy, or place them at risk of undertaking unsafe abortions. Furthermore, the Committee stated that governments should remove existing barriers that deny effective access to safe and legal abortion, refrain from introducing new barriers to abortion, and prevent the stigmatization of those seeking abortion.

This is not a call for full term abortion. It is a clause that supports a persons right to terminate if carrying to term would cause substantial pain and suffering. The actual termination would be performed much earlier. Or maybe conservative daughters would be too scared to take action until full term.

7. There already are examples (I have linked earlier, will link again) where pro life laws made medical care difficult (as doctors are scared of legal ramifications) - the example is of a woman having an incomplete miscarriage unable to access a D&C because the foetal heart was beating (way before viability and with zero chance of survival)

Woman said she went into sepsis before she could get lifesaving abortion care in Texas

A Texas woman said she had to wait until she developed sepsis before physicians could provide her with lifesaving abortion care.

abcnews.go.com

8. Again, Trumps denials mean nothing given history of lies.

9. Inferential and not evidence of 9 month abortions. The federalists have used suggestion to claiim fact where there is no fact.

10. Can't say one way or another - but the bill was something that conservative republicans were happy with until trump told them to kill it for wedge purposes. My opinion is that no policy is worse than some policy and that the "invasion" rate was higher due to the lack of policy - but cannot be proven or disproven.

11. SCOTUS immunity - the issue is more that Trump will try to expand the definition of "official act" and/or that matters already proceeding against trump are being delayed due to having to decide if "official act" or not. This is already a commonly held opinion. In this case the federalist claims it is misleading (ie not out and out lie) so ok, I can accept that

12. I don't see the problem. Her personal view is she would like to ban fracking but she isn't going to make moves to do so as she knows she doesn't have the political capital to do so. Sign of the immaturity of the federalists that they can only think of a president in terms of "I want this therefore it happens". Suckers looking for a dictator, which seems at odds with their libertarian roots...

13. Federalist mischaracterisation/ overinterpretation of a headshake. Headshake could be at Trumps description of the events, not a denial of the bail fund.

14. Trump never deployed the national guard. And by promoting his election theft lie he was inciting followers to take action. Federalist is doing very selective revisionism here.

15. On the question of whether police forces died as a result of J6, Federalist quotes case of Brian Sicknick

District of Columbia Chief Medical Examiner Francisco J. Diaz found that Sicknick suffered two strokes nearly eight hours after being sprayed with a chemical irritant during the riot. Diaz told the Post that Sicknick died of natural causes, but “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

Wouldn't it be nice if Federalist would take whole context instead of selective shit? Or that they were held to account for it (pretending to be a media organisation)

16. Federalist revisionism. It has already entered popular culture that Trumps "fine people" quote has been associated with the Charlottesville white supremacist march.

17. Its very easy to misinterpret and reinterpret what Trump says during 2024 as he is incoherent and difficult to follow. The bloodbath comments are ambiguous. Kamala has taken one interpretation, the federalist the other.

18. Splitting hairs the federalists are. Trump is already quoted on the 2022 invasion as

"“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump said in a radio interview with “The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.” “He used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy.”"

Not a significant stretch to saying that Trump would let Putin do whatever he wants. Ukraine is not a state of NATO so the attributed deflection by federalist (about it was getting NATO states to pay bills) is not relevant.

19. Trump himself claimed Orban (an autocrat) as a leader he admired during the debate.

20. Agree this is misleading, though I don't know of any time when the USA is not involved in a foreign war for a very long time.

21. My recollection was that it was Trump policy to withdraw and Biden did not take steps to modify the schedule. Blame should go to both sides here.

22. Um times change, positions change. And you know what dumb** federalists, on this issue I don't give a flying **, I would be happy for her to take all the ****ing guns.

23. Southern border was not secure under trump, there were still illegal immigrants. Less media scrutiny of it, likely for the same reason in Australia (biased media).

24. Bit stupid to imply that police budgets can never be touched. Very big goverment of these federalists.

25. IVF support is an idiotic policy, poor allocation of funds. And the state based abortion bans are making the status of the in vitro foetuses questionable in terms of storage and destruction of excess, among other issues.

Roe v Wade: ‘Could abortion bans put my IVF at risk?’

Women in the US are worried that changes to abortion laws could affect their fertility treatment.

www.bbc.com

So after wading through that shit show (again showing that the political types that write this shit are way less smart than myself who is just one dumb**** with access to google) there aren't 25 lies. There are 3 (10, 11 and 20)

Its just the usual trying to excuse Trump for literally everything.

 

[Present Not Past]

Just watching his spin room footage and it’s next level dementia!
He enters and just starts spouting numbers, “we have the best numbers, 90%, 60% 70% 71% 84%” randomly to nobody in particular, no questions, no interviewers, just a tired, ragged old felon, sinking into the depths of his own miserable reality and no one gives one flying ****!
SENSATIONAL

He wasn't talking to nobody.
He was talking to himself.

 

[Visions]

Hows your stance on answering a ****ing question?

That would require thought processing. Something the village idiot of the thread is bereft of.

 

[Celebrity 101]

Trumps Covid response led to the death of millions of Americans. He has blood on his hands. That’s what failing America looks like.

What about the 325,000 children under 18 missing - immigrant children missing.

Last 3 years.

Thanks Joe and Kamala.

Trump's COVID response, i see. He should've locked down like Dan did and destroy the economy

 

[big_e]

What about the 325,000 children under 18 missing - immigrant children missing.

Last 3 years.

Thanks Joe and Kamala.

Trump's COVID response, i see. He should've locked down like Dan did and destroy the economy

The overwhelming majority of children reported missing are runaways or kids that are simply lost. Something like 98% of missing person reports are solved in one or two days, usually with no harm to the person involved.

Of the others, the FBI report that, on average, around 350 children are abducted by strangers each year, compared to almost 2,500 children who are abducted by non-custodial parents.

Oh, and the largest racial group mentioned in missing person reports is white people.

I don't know where you get your figures from, but they are complete bollocks.

 

[CD Xbow]

My folks made cassette tapes that they sent to their parents which came into my hands after my grandparents died as family archivist and on one of them there's me at about that age singing Fernando.

That explains much.

 

[GreyCrow]

A malignant narcissist sociopath who seems to be on a frontotemporal dementia journey.......

In any other country, he would not be running for office.

His family and wife are a disgrace. This is a form of elder abuse.

Remember when people said Jill Biden was committing elder abuse

I remember

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

just a tired, ragged old felon, sinking into the depths of his own miserable reality

Pretty perfect description of the shameless scoundrel.

 

[GreyCrow]

What about the 325,000 children under 18 missing - immigrant children missing.

Last 3 years.

Thanks Joe and Kamala.

Trump's COVID response, i see. He should've locked down like Dan did and destroy the economy

Can you describe a poem using bananas

 

[Balls In]

Trump refusing a third debate and Kamala desperate for one can only mean one thing. Both candidate internal polls with a clear Trump victory. He doesn't need to debate, she does.

 

[Royces Hart]

Trump refusing a third debate and Kamala desperate for one can only mean one thing. Both candidate internal polls with a clear Trump victory. He doesn't need to debate, she does.

It can only mean one thing!

Just one!

 

[Millky95]

I think the stat is that because of the electoral college you can technically win the election with only 23% of the popular vote.

Imagine creating a system where the president can be a person that doesn’t represent 77% of the population. Insane.

23% of the voting population as well. If only 50% of eligible voters actually vote, you only need 11.5% of the total to win. One of the worst systems in the world

 

[Sqotty from office works]

My folks made cassette tapes that they sent to their parents which came into my hands after my grandparents died as family archivist and on one of them there's me at about that age singing Fernando.

We're you copying Agnetha or Freda at the time

 

[Gough]

It can only mean one thing!

Just one!

The prism through which everything is viewed and judged as awesome for Trump is starting to look a bit scratched and battered.

 

[Gough]

We're you copying Agnetha or Freda at the time

I've got some tapes made just after the Dismissal and it's interesting to hear my folks trying to explain wtf happened to their parents.

 

[darrenmorgan]

Harris out to a 5 point gap and gaining in latest Ipsos poll.

 

[Gough]

Harris out to a 5 point gap and gaining in latest Ipsos poll.

If I was Vance I'd be looking over my shoulder because none of this train wreck can be Trump's fault.

 

[Royces Hart]

This is his son, apple very close to the tree, he is disturbing and should be closely monitored his entire life cycle!
View attachment 2109037

Nah it’s a fake account

 

[Royces Hart]

Harris out to a 5 point gap and gaining in latest Ipsos poll.

Not saying I don’t believe you but I’m just a bit surprised in such a sudden swing.

Only two days ago Trump apparently won the debate 93-6, 88-10, 86-12, 91-23, 131-0, 4£#2-(-23).

 

[60 Yards Out]

Trump refusing a third debate and Kamala desperate for one can only mean one thing. Both candidate internal polls with a clear Trump victory. He doesn't need to debate, she does.

If there was only one thing, more likely: Trump doesn’t want to sht himself in public again and his ‘advisers’ agree.

 

[Jamolad]

Everyone has a (concept of a) plan until they get punched in the mouth

 

[Millky95]

But it was rigged against him!

 

[Randomizor]

Trump too afraid to have another debate. What a coward. This is the strong man that’s meant to stand up to world leaders?

Conservatives must be fuming and wishing they could replace him