USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris

[Chief]

 

[carltonchelsea]

and if the Marx brothers represented socialism, you would not be a forgotten distant family member because you wouldn't be smart enough.

At least I’m a brother, you’re not even a distant cousin!

 

[IlovethePies]

Ahaha ahahaha if the morans were a criminal family, you were a forgotten distant family member!

So i am assuming from this that you are a member of the morons family?

 

[IlovethePies]

Without preferential voting, it’s kinda moot as they won’t have any power.

Preferential voting is not the point here.
The point is what happens after this election.
Whoever "wins" this election, there will be a political crisis.

 

[Blue1980]

Agree, Blue. I have not framed it accurately enough.
There is a difference between the Democrats and the Trump Republicans.
Trump is spouting the latest version of American fascism. He is referring to "iimmigrants poisoning the blood of the nation" and that the birthright guarantees of the US constitution need to be abolished.

This is new in US politics. It is the eruption of outright fascism into the mainstream political environment.

The Democrats are not a fascist party, unlike the Republcan party which is now in the process of being transformed into a fascist party.

However, the role of the Democrats in the current poltical crisis is to be the facilitators of American fascism. Their policies, which have lead to continuing attacks on the living standards of the working class, continued attacks on immigrant workers, continued support for escalation of war in Ukraine and in Gaza via never ending arms packages for both Zelensky and Netanyahu, are paving the way for Trump to exploit the massive social grievances that the Democrats themselves have perpetuated.

It is grotesque that Trump can win support by posing as an "anti-war " figure. This is not due to any anti war position on his part, but only because he believes that the immediate priorities of US imperialism should be directed at suppressing opposition in the working class at home, rather than war against Russia in Ukraine.

Trump is a fascist, prowar politician, who is able to exploit the fact that the Democrats offer nothing but continued war and poverty to the American working class.

Supporting the Democrats will not stop the rise of fascism in the US.

Trump is already preparing his arguments for contesting the election result should he lose the election.

He is claiming that the Democrats are enrolling illegal immigrants to vote for them.

He is announcing that he will contest the election result should he lose, openly.

What are the Democrats doing to warn the working class? Absolutely nothing.

because they are much less fearful of a Trump dictatorship than a forewarned and active working class which might intervene to disrupt the plans of both capitalist parties.

There are a lot of things sick in American politics, the biggest one I think is lobbyists and donor money which got turbocharged in the 80s.

In that period the Dems couldn’t get into power between 1980-92, as their spending didn’t get anywhere near the republicans, so they went all neoliberalism from Clinton onwards.

The repercussions have made for growing inequality from 1980 until now, as both sides beholden to donors or they fear being frozen out funding for elections and even primaries (as we have seen with Democrat candidates which don’t support AIPAC).

It’s those conditions which have led to the rise of trump, and people throwing a Hail Mary voting for him thinking he was at least an alternative.

The donor money has wide ranging consequences as the Dems don’t take on wildly popular positions as they fear the donor class will get angry.

So to me that is the biggest issue in US politics and needs urgent reform.

 

[carltonchelsea]

and you are a brother of what?

Democratus, Socrates, Plato, Copernicus, Galileo, Spinoza,
Einstein, Darwin, Paine, Lincoln, MLK, Mabo, Elvis, Muhammad Ali, Jimi Hendrix, Michael, Beatles, Stones, Dawkins, Hitchens, Krauss, , Harris, Dennett, Carrol, Pinker etc etc what else would you like to understand little fella?

 

[Blue1980]

Preferential voting is not the point here.
The point is what happens after this election.
Whoever "wins" this election, there will be a political crisis.

Are you referring to Trump and his goons claiming they won regardless and Dems and rest of the country sleep walking into the threat of that happening?

I tend to agree there isn’t enough alarm, but a lot of people both in the US and here on this board think it’s all hyperbole and overblown.

It’s the frog in a boiling water, people just get used to Trump and his fascist rhetoric and normalise it, maybe it’s a coping mechanism, cognitive dissonance, or they just love fascism.

 

[IlovethePies]

Democratus, Socrates, Plato, Copernicus, Galileo, Spinoza,
Einstein, Darwin, Paine, Lincoln, MLK, Mabo, Elvis, Muhammad Ali, Jimi Hendrix, Michael, Beatles, Stones, Dawkins, Hitchens, Krauss, , Harris, Dennett, Carrol, Pinker etc etc what else would you like to understand little fella?

so i was right, you are a brother of the morons family

 

[IlovethePies]

Are you referring to Trump and his goons claiming they won regardless and Dems and rest of the country sleep walking into the threat of that happening?

I tend to agree there isn’t enough alarm, but a lot of people both in the US and here on this board think it’s all hyperbole and overblown.

It’s the frog in a boiling water, people just get used to Trump and his fascist rhetoric and normalise it, maybe it’s a coping mechanism, cognitive dissonance, or they just love fascism.

Yes, exactly right. Trump has made clear that if he loses, he will not accept the result.
He will mobilise fascist forces in Jan 6 Mark 2, but having learned the lessons of the previous one, this time it will be alot more clinical and planned.

The posters on this board ridicule Trump, without actually recognising the huge threat he poses to democracy.

The issue is that there is not a widely enough known political alternative to the entire capitalist framework.Therefore, people might lapse into the mental mechanisms that you suggest.

However, there is an alternative, and it needs to get promoted as widely as possible:

The 2024 US elections and the tasks of the Socialist Equality Party

We are publishing here the main resolution adopted by the Eighth National Congress of the Socialist Equality Party (US), held from August 4 to August 9, 2024.

www.wsws.org

 

[Celebrity 101]

Yes, exactly right. Trump has made clear that if he loses, he will not accept the result.
He will mobilise fascist forces in Jan 6 Mark 2, but having learned the lessons of the previous one, this time it will be alot more clinical and planned.

The posters on this board ridicule Trump, without actually recognising the huge threat he poses to democracy.

The issue is that there is not a widely enough known political alternative to the entire capitalist framework.Therefore, people might lapse into the mental mechanisms that you suggest.

However, there is an alternative, and it needs to get promoted as widely as possible:

The 2024 US elections and the tasks of the Socialist Equality Party

We are publishing here the main resolution adopted by the Eighth National Congress of the Socialist Equality Party (US), held from August 4 to August 9, 2024.

www.wsws.org

Trump is the big fascist they tell you. The right are dangerous, they won't accept the result. If he wins democracy is at stake.

All fear, no substance. Trump is the peace candidate.

The Democrats and the left loot when things go their way. Remember CHAZ. BLM. Tearing down statues, rioting and looting.

They cry about democracy then go into a petty rage when results don't go their way.

 

[IlovethePies]

Trump is the big fascist they tell you. The right are dangerous, they won't accept the result. If he wins democracy is at stake.

All fear, no substance. Trump is the peace candidate.

The Democrats and the left loot when things go their way. Remember CHAZ. BLM. Tearing down statues, rioting and looting.

They cry about democracy then go into a petty rage when results don't go their way.

I am sorry, but you are forgetting Charlottesville, you are forgetting how Trump was about to bring out the military in response to protests against the murder of George Floyd...

Trump has already declared that if he wins, he will deport 20 million immigrants. This can only be done under a police state.

He has also declared openly that the democrats are enrolling illegal immigrants to vote for them, signalling that he will launch another coup attempt based on fraudulent charges of a "'stolen election" should he lose.

Trump is a prowar fascist politician. His immediate policies will be aimed at suppressing opposition to his rule within the US by using police/military repression. Hence his ability to pose as an "anti-war" candidate. He might temporarily wind down the war in Ukraine, in order to deal with opposition within the US

Once that is done, he will turn to initiating war against China.

Trump is also on record to have declared that :"Israel needs to get the job done" - in other words, just as pro-genocide as Biden.

 

[GreyCrow]

Here are the only candidates in the US election who offer a way forward for the vast US working population:

The SEP launches its campaign for a socialist alternative in 2024 to Biden and Trump, the corporate candidates of war and dictatorship!

David North, the national chairman of the Socialist Equality Party (US), announced today the selection of Joe Kishore and Jerry White as the SEP's candidates in the 2024 presidential election campaign.

www.wsws.org

I apologise

You have finished your arts degree and now work for the Australian Communist Press

Thank Christ you ain't a centrist

 

[IlovethePies]

I apologise

You have finished your arts degree and now work for the Australian Communist Press

Thank Christ you ain't a centrist

Ha ha...the Australian Communist party was liquidated years ago.

Clearly a grey feathered crow.

 

[IlovethePies]

Yes the US made Russia declare war on Ukraine, somehow.

Yes, the US and NATO over a decade created the conditions where Putin was goaded into invading Ukraine.
If you are interested in finding out how and why, I can point you in the right direction to find out.

 

[brutus76]

To make the Battle of the VPs more casual and comfortable instead of a podium Vance wil take the couch and Walz a sitting chair

 

[FruitTingles]

Tim Waltz is more popular than Taylor Swift.

Also note ideas about ‘anti-capitalist’ sentiment in the US are not backed by any data. +26 vs -37

 

[Satan]

View attachment 2120889
Tim Waltz is more popular than Taylor Swift.

Also note ideas about ‘anti-capitalist’ sentiment in the US are not backed by any data. +26 vs -37

Done Before or after 2nd debate

 

[CD Xbow]

Yikes, Walz v Vance will be a bloodbath. The attacks on Walz write themselves: repeated instances of stolen valour. Tampons in boys rooms. Lying about his experience with IVF. Lying about carrying weapons of war in a war zone. Lying about being busted driving 40MPH over the speed limit with a BAC of 1.28. Lying about his rank. Having a missus who publicly announced her enjoyment of the smell of burning tires during deadly riots. If you made a person by combining the worst traits of Biden and Trump, Walz is what you get.

Versus Vance, a self made millenial with zero scandals (to the point that one had to be fabricated, the couch thing).

Can someone please explain to me why such a flawed and dishonest candidate (Walz) from a safe state was chosen over J Shapiro - the popular governor of likely the most important state in the election? Go on... you know the reason... say it!!

Fire, stop being stupid, you're just baiting people.

 

[jatz14]

Yes, but he has his views and he argues his point with support he believes in. That is a helluva lot more than the bot-trolls that pass through.
A bit out of my depth here, too old now to argue this stuff. Reminds of college though.
Socialism to my mind is idealistic, but some policies benefit from flavoring for it. Same as capitalism, can't go too far with it.

I agree. Capitalism is a dangerous beast, and it will devour its own children if allowed to.

But no political or economic theory is without its flaws and dangers.

Some people are so wedded to an ideology that they can neither admit flaws in it, or acknowledge positives in alternatives.

So when people start just regurgitating a specific ideological viewpoint, I admit, I just turn off. I've found they rarely have anything significant to offer.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[iBeng]

Exclusive: Trump drops Springfield visit amid warning of 'strain' on city

The community in Ohio remains at the center of an immigration storm over debunked claims its Haitian population was killing and eating residents' pets.

www.newsweek.com

Well well wells.

 

[GreyCrow]

Yes, exactly right. Trump has made clear that if he loses, he will not accept the result.
He will mobilise fascist forces in Jan 6 Mark 2, but having learned the lessons of the previous one, this time it will be alot more clinical and planned.

The posters on this board ridicule Trump, without actually recognising the huge threat he poses to democracy.

Everyone recognises the threat . Thats why we ridicule him, make him small. Its a minor thing for an Aussie board to do but you do your best

Thats why we hold our noses and support the Dems - we do recognise the threat and the sideswipe Australia will receive if a Trump nomination succeeds this time

 

[GreyCrow]

Ha ha...the Australian Communist party was liquidated years ago.

Clearly a grey feathered crow.

You miss it dont you. Holding your Red Badge singing The Internationale and smoking the erb of socialism. All the while spouting nonsense

As I said you're an Arts graduate who learnt some phrases and thinks doing his own research makes him the clever one

 

[GreyCrow]

The rise of Hitler in 1933 wasnt about Stalinist Communists not getting out to vote - it was a direct result of the policies of the Allies and the effect reparations had on the German people

The rise in inflation, the disenfranchisement of the people in the Weimar Republic and the rise of a charismatic speaker who blamed the Jews and the current regime - where have I heard this before? - and managed to use peoples disaffection to gain sheeple

I see strong similarities in the Rise of Hitler and the Rise of Trump - even down to the language