USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris

[Chief]

 

[bourbons]

Ask yourself - how neglected does the average American have to feel in order to a) follow Trump, or b) ignore voting at all.

The answer: very, very neglected.

Anyone not understanding why the Democratic Party are having difficulty cutting through has ignored the way the US government has operated for the last four decades, regardless of the party.

Harris, in isolation, is a standard establishment politician. She could be any number of politicians, and the situation would be the same. That's the problem!

You're not wrong, its just that the idea Trump would be any better for those neglected people is utterly insane.

Like, how cooked would you have to be? One of the few things Hillary actually got right was the 'deplorables' comment imo, certainly not helpful electorally but it was spot on. Conservative if anything, she said half of Trump's base were, I reckon its a higher percentage than that. Some genuine hateful racist pieces of shit, but most just so poorly educated with such low information literacy and reasoning skills that they just believe whatever dear leader says in contradiction of every data point imaginable.

That country is cooked regardless of who wins in November, I give them another 2 generations before its completely done in its current incarnation/as a world power, 100 years tops.

 

[GreyCrow]

Democrat voteshare is down in Pennsylvania, and an increase in Independents.

I'm critical of Dems policies because the Trump GOP are so far off the deep end that I don't think it'd actually take much for the Dems to win pretty comfortably. But they just revert to type. Average voters are looking for change.

Not sure this matters.

PA Facts & Figures​

Independents as second-class citizens​

Who are Independent Voters?​

Independents are not a uniform body. We subscribe to diverse views across the political spectrum—left, center and right. Whatever those differences, independents are united in the realization that if we want to move forward as a country, we have to do something about partisanship and the domination of the political process by the special interests.

How many are in Pennsylvania?​

Over 1.3 million Pennsylvanians are registered independents/third parties (dos.pa.gov, 2020)—(over 14.5% of all registered PA voters)—while Democratic and Republican registration has been steadily declining over the past decade.

The Pennsylvania electoral system actively discriminates against independents. In 2016 independent candidates running for president or statewide office are required to submit over 21,000 signatures from registered voters to get on the ballot. This number is determined by the district-by-district electoral formula (2% of a recent winner’s vote total).

In it's worst year in recent history, 2006, this number reached 67,070 signatures, an almost insurmountable task given Democrats and Republicans each required only 2,000 signatures...and independents' signatures are challenged in highly contested elections.

Independents Nationally​

Over 40% of all Americans now self-identify as independents, regardless of voter registration. Since the mid-1980s, the Republican Party has slightly increased and Democratic Party registration has decreased by 10%. More Americans are registering outside the two major parties because they want to get away from the extreme partisanship and political corruption that dominates the political process.

Is there an "Independent Party" in Pennsylvania?​

No. There are many third parties (e.g., Constitution, Green, Libertarian, Unity). However, there is no party per se for independents. We work to bring together all independents across the spectrum of political thought to make our democracy more inclusive for all.

Can Independents vote in the Primaries?​

The unfortunate answer is NO. We are excluded from the primaries...even though we pay for them! We are currently one of 13 states that has fully closed primaries for both parties.

 

[Maggie5]

Well the GOP's big legislation in recent times is the SAVE act, which makes some that is already illegal, illegal Oh, and also increases some hurdles for voter registration of US citizens. Added as a poison pill to the spending bill.
Their other major accomplishment seems to be taking credit for Biden infrastructure and med-cost caps.
I forgot some of the performative/signalling bills that do nothing, but that a problem for both sides.

What did the GOP Congress do about inflation, immigration, infrastructure, covid, or anything except blame Dems? A GOPer can't answer policy questions.

I'd like to see one or any of the trolls actually put forth a cogent argument for their hot takes. I'd welcome one. If they were legit posters, they'd know that most if not all can be countered with actual vision of Trump or MAGAGOP destroying their position. They are like the information source they consume, no facts. All falsehoods, "don't fact-check me, bro".
If they were legit, they would elevate their argument. And it would elevate the responses from most of the other side.

I think one marketing strategy that Dems are not using which I think would work is whilst they are speaking on topics like 'infrastructure' is telling each state the project/s they have benefited from (Internet/replacing lead water pipes/bridges) and stating Senator R voted against this bill, or medication Senator R voted against this, etc etc. Sometimes a show and tell works so much better than just telling.

They are doing it for Immigration, but they should also do it for the Chips and Infrastructure etc.

Sometimes speaking to media clips (or similar) work well as many are visual learners. Re-inforce what is being said.

 

[GreyCrow]

Does that mean the ' Independents ' wont vote? Or that the decline in Democrat votes will be an issue?

I see this as a 1 issue Election. As much as people want to make it about Israel, the Economy or sending Hurricanes to Red States the single most important to Americans - especially female Americans - is reproductive rights

Sure the economy gets talked down but reality is its not as bad as people are making it out to be

If people can afford to send money to church or grifters then it cant be that bad . Its just peoples priorities are wrong. This wont change with Trump - it will get worse as the grift will treble down

I think the female vote is under represented in polls and will see a rise in Democrat vote

 

[Spearman]

I think one marketing strategy that Dems are not using which I think would work is whilst they are speaking on topics like 'infrastructure' is telling each state the project/s they have benefited from (Internet/replacing lead water pipes/bridges) and stating Senator R voted against this bill, or medication Senator R voted against this, etc etc. Sometimes a show and tell works so much better than just telling.

They are doing it for Immigration, but they should also do it for the Chips and Infrastructure etc.

Sometimes speaking to media clips (or similar) work well as many are visual learners. Re-inforce what is being said.

Yes, I've had that exact same thoughts. Open by stating that the local guys is lying to y'all, then clips showing his/her dissent and bold face credit stealing.
In whatever they do, they need it to be very clear and in plain language. The people they should be reaching aren't going to dwell on things too long. "This guy is a PoS....see?" "This guy said this which got some of you hurt....and he won't apologize or take it back".

 

[GreyCrow]

I think one marketing strategy that Dems are not using which I think would work is whilst they are speaking on topics like 'infrastructure' is telling each state the project/s they have benefited from (Internet/replacing lead water pipes/bridges) and stating Senator R voted against this bill, or medication Senator R voted against this, etc etc. Sometimes a show and tell works so much better than just telling.

They are doing it for Immigration, but they should also do it for the Chips and Infrastructure etc.

Sometimes speaking to media clips (or similar) work well as many are visual learners. Re-inforce what is being said.

Folowing on from my post I would like to bring to the fore the reproductive rights issues and get more women out

 

[GreyCrow]

Are Independents going to affect Democrats?

Two different sources say 2 different things

https://www.newsweek.com/pennsylvania-polling-independnet-voters-kamala-harris-1956190 - 19 Sept 2024

Anew poll shows Kamala Harris pulling ahead with a significant lead among independent voters in Pennsylvania, a key battleground state for the 2024 election.

The poll, conducted by Franklin & Marshall College between September 4 and September 15, shows Harris has a 13-point lead over Donald Trump among independent voters in Pennsylvania, with 48 percent of the vote to the former president's 35 percent.

https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/20...democrat-republican-independent-harris-trump/ 18 Sept 2024

HARRISBURG — Despite a bump following Joe Biden’s exit from the presidential race, Democrats in Pennsylvania are entering the home stretch of the 2024 election with their weakest voter registration advantage compared to Republicans in recent decades.

The party’s raw registration numbers began to rise after Biden dropped out in late July and that trend is continuing. But simultaneously, the number of Republicans has increased even more quickly.

In other words, Democrats’ overall share of voters is still declining, and recent increases haven’t made up for losses over the past four years.

This article is made possible through Spotlight PA’s collaboration with Votebeat, a nonpartisan news organization covering local election administration and voting. Sign up for Votebeat's free newsletters here.

 

[bourbons]

Saying one thing to voters whilst telling big business another thing. An example is her basically telling the business community she's going to be "friendlier" to them than Biden is.

Pretty good example of what I'm talking about here. Just like policy for neglected voters, yet another obvious case of of Trump being miles worse than Harris for the average joe to anyone paying attention. Here he is in 2017 explicitly telling his billionaire backers how much richer they'll be because of his tax policy, then doubling down on it again in April this year.

"You all just got a lot richer," Trump tells friends, referencing tax overhaul

Trump kicked off his holiday weekend at Mar-a-Lago Friday night at a dinner

www.cbsnews.com

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-promises-billionaires-ill-keep-231354156.html

What percentage of Trump's rusted-ons would even be aware of that would you say? I don't seem to be able to find anything about it on Fox lol

On change - very difficult to run on "change" when you are the party in charge. Similar to Clinton was.

It is, which is why I think getting at least some traction with the "we're not going back" messaging is about as well as she could be expected to do there.

A few podcasts or interviews rushed isn't going to change the entrenching perception that she's playing small target.

Yeah it probably won't, but it should (and would in a country not as head****ed as America). Trump's base too dumb/indoctrinated to care or probably even know about facts like Harris is doing interviews while Trump is inventing reasons (like the possibility of being fact checked and wanting an apology for something said to him in a previous interview that wasn't actually said lol) to avoid them.

‘60 Minutes’ Brings the Receipts on Trump’s Interview About-Face

CBS gave further detail Monday on Donald Trump’s decision to bail on a customary pre-election interview with the investigative newsmagazine program 60 Minutes, alleging that the former president pulled out of the sit-down over an apparent dispute about the show’s fact-checking policies.Before...

www.yahoo.com

And yeah, the Democrats do need to be better to "break even". They've been in government for 3 of the last 4 cycles. Average voters and independents don't blame Trump for the current situation, they blame Democrats, and that is the core issue.

What current situation is that? That stuff costs more a few years after a global pandemic despite the US performing very well comparatively in curbing the resultant inflation? Again its an education/info literacy issue. What percentage of Trump supporters would know about their country's performance on this issue relative to the rest of the world? Hell, what percentage of them would have even once in their lives googled any story or issue outside the US?

 

[pjcrows]

One of the few things Hillary actually got right was the 'deplorables' comment imo, certainly not helpful electorally

You directly contradict yourself here, in the same sentence!

 

[pjcrows]

Pretty good example of what I'm talking about here. Just like policy for neglected voters, yet another obvious case of of Trump being miles worse than Harris for the average joe to anyone paying attention. Here he is in 2017 explicitly telling his billionaire backers how much richer they'll be because of his tax policy, then doubling down on it again in April this year.

"You all just got a lot richer," Trump tells friends, referencing tax overhaul

Trump kicked off his holiday weekend at Mar-a-Lago Friday night at a dinner

www.cbsnews.com

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-promises-billionaires-ill-keep-231354156.html

What percentage of Trump's rusted-ons would even be aware of that would you say? I don't seem to be able to find anything about it on Fox lol


It is, which is why I think getting at least some traction with the "we're not going back" messaging is about as well as she could be expected to do there.


Yeah it probably won't, but it should (and would in a country not as head****ed as America). Trump's base too dumb/indoctrinated to care or probably even know about facts like Harris is doing interviews while Trump is inventing reasons (like the possibility of being fact checked and wanting an apology for something said to him in a previous interview that wasn't actually said lol) to avoid them.

‘60 Minutes’ Brings the Receipts on Trump’s Interview About-Face

CBS gave further detail Monday on Donald Trump’s decision to bail on a customary pre-election interview with the investigative newsmagazine program 60 Minutes, alleging that the former president pulled out of the sit-down over an apparent dispute about the show’s fact-checking policies.Before...

www.yahoo.com

What current situation is that? That stuff costs more a few years after a global pandemic despite the US performing very well comparatively in curbing the resultant inflation? Again its an education/info literacy issue. What percentage of Trump supporters would know about their country's performance on this issue relative to the rest of the world? Hell, what percentage of them would have even once in their lives googled any story or issue outside the US?

I don't actually disagree with much of what you're saying here. I'm not arguing for Trump - I'm explaining why I think he will win, very narrowly, and the deficiencies of the Harris campaign currently.

 

[bourbons]

Look I know Trump is terrible, but Harris isn't it.

In a 2 horse race, wouldn't the fact that Trump is terrible mean that Harris actually is it?

 

[bourbons]

Harris Tells the Business Community: I’m Friendlier Than Biden

The vice president on Wednesday proposed an increase on the capital gains tax that was far less than what President Biden has floated, one of several moves meant to win over business owners.

www.nytimes.com

This confirms how much better she is than Trump on the issue. She's talking about an increase in capital gains tax - just a lower rate (more than 10% lower) than the one pitched by Biden, but still an increase. She's actually trying for a workable compromise, while still raising tax on big business.

Compare that to Donnie's "you all just got richer" to his big business supporters. Chalk and cheese, pretty clear which candidate would be better for the little guy to anyone paying attention.

 

[bourbons]

I'm critical of Dems policies because the Trump GOP are so far off the deep end that I don't think it'd actually take much for the Dems to win pretty comfortably. But they just revert to type. Average voters are looking for change.

Biden still bears a lot of blame. All they had to do was run a proper primary and go with the battle-tested candidate who got through and they'd be up double digits nationally imo.

 

[pjcrows]

Biden still bears a lot of blame. All they had to do was run a proper primary and go with the battle-tested candidate who got through and they'd be up double digits nationally imo.

100% agree.

 

[bourbons]

Now the ice is starting the melt. Must be the sound of the Red Wave coming. Dems in full panic mode, do they try and assassinate Trump a third time. Maybe they'll pull another hurricane out in another full Trump area.

Last week Israel and Ukraine got another 8 billion each. Meanwhile FEMA gives $750 to the victims of the hurricane, whilst failing to organise a proper rescue and recovery effort for the victims. Corpse Joe when interviewed didn't even know their was a hurricane. Americans aren't stupid.

Kamala never got a single vote. Joe got 14 million, yet they tossed him aside. Americans again are not stupid. The Phil Inn sure isn't cutting into the Trump vote, she can't even debate him without rigged 3v1 and having an ear piece. In fact right now it's Hitlary running the show not her.

All Kamala has is Trump is evil, his bad. No policies of her own. Except for we need to arm foreign countries while our own country has immigrants pour in unchecked.

The Senator Blummenthals, the Nancy Pelosis, Big Mike and Nobel piece of crap prize winner Barry Obama, Hitlary Clinton, AOC - the swamp needs to be drained. Their time is up, add in the uniparty stooges from the republicans including Linsday Graham, Rubio, Johnson and Pence and Cell block one is full.

So tell me, if Trump isn't a threat to them then why do they want him dead. Because they know their game of charades is over.

Petition for a BF filter that changes "batshit insane" to "Celebrity 101 insane" plz

 

[pjcrows]

In a 2 horse race, wouldn't the fact that Trump is terrible mean that Harris actually is it?

Millions of Americans look at the two-horse race, and the "better of two evils" argument that they've heard for decades, and either don't vote at all (which is actually the majority) or look to a candidate that claims to hate that very system and promises to change it.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Now the ice is starting the melt.

Put the pipe down.

 

[Financialpanther]

Petition for a BF filter that changes "batshit insane" to "Celebrity 101 insane" plz

I prefer to call it Crazy Uncle ChatGPT

 

[bourbons]

Such as?

Focusing on (and apparently being unaware of) Harris' policies, ignoring Trump's lack of the same.
Decrying Harris' small target strategy and her not doing interviews when she is, while Trump literally invents nonsense to get out of speaking anywhere he doesn't have good mate doing the interviewing or a cheering section.

Not that I think you're pro Trump btw, just something I've seen other clearly pro Trump accounts do.

 

[bourbons]

You directly contradict yourself here, in the same sentence!

Eh? There are myriad things a candidate could say that are accurate but which wouldn't be particularly helpful in getting them elected, I acknowledged exactly that.

 

[bourbons]

I don't actually disagree with much of what you're saying here. I'm not arguing for Trump - I'm explaining why I think he will win, very narrowly, and the deficiencies of the Harris campaign currently.

I know, I get it.

I just think the deficiencies of the Harris campaign (at whopping 2.5 months old now) isn't the deciding factor, its more the deficiencies in Trump supporters.

 

[bourbons]

Millions of Americans look at the two-horse race, and the "better of two evils" argument that they've heard for decades, and either don't vote at all (which is actually the majority) or look to a candidate that claims to hate that very system and promises to change it.

They will, and in the end will get what they deserve I suppose.

 

[pjcrows]

I know, I get it.

I just think the deficiencies of the Harris campaign (at whopping 2.5 months old now) isn't the deciding factor, its more the deficiencies in Trump supporters.

A lot of Trump supporters are, let's just say, uninformed. He's created a cult-like atmosphere. I'd argue the corrupt political system has created a lot of that, too. Or at least made it possible. If the average person is satisfied, they don't look to cult figures.

Those people don't decide elections though, particularly this one.

 

[pjcrows]

They will, and in the end will get what they deserve I suppose.

That's democracy*.



*For now.

 

[Satan]

That's democracy*.



*For now.

Until its not