Preview 2025 Best 22 Discussion

[Eski3]

I will never understand the underrating of Luke Ryan on this board

 

[Hamann188]

I will never understand the underrating of Luke Ryan on this board

Apart from his predictable kick outs from the square, which have become very rare since Jordy has been taking a lot of them, I'm with you.

I have a lot of love for Lukey and he remains in my B22 for the the forseeable future.

 

[Jezzitizle]

I remember Hawks trading Mark Williams and pick 13 for Shaun Burgoyne.

That is the kind of trade I would be very happy to do with Luke Ryan.

Luke Ryan and Pick 14 for Pickett.

You pay a price though, if players see clubs treating players as commodities (and Ryan seems well loved) they no doubt feel less loyalty.

The relationships between players are really important for retention, and clubs should be very, very careful before messing with it.

If we pushed Ryan out, Cox may become disgruntled and leave too, for example - he would probably make more money at North, or Adelaide.

 

[Jezzitizle]

If Draper wasn't emerging probably wouldn't even be a discussion point. We are quickly going to be in a situation where Erasmus, Draper, Murphy etc are blocked if they are not managed well.

Pearce and Cox are injury prone enough that Draper is likely to play, especially because he can cover 3rd/4th talls.

Ras is ultimately unproven but he will see a spot where Fyfe plays, and Murphy is 2 years+ from earning his own spot (despite the wishful thinking of many here) by which time a lot will change.

 

[wakojako]

His positioning to take marks is elite, he is tough as they come and is a cool head when the heat is on.

Pace has never been a strength, it’s all about his actual football ability, which is undoubtably elite.

Not everyone here likes his ball movement, but the people whose opinions matter, the coaches, use him from kick outs. So they clearly rate it.

He also has the ability to play as a kpd, so offers excellent cover for the tall defenders in game.

I think you might have accute offseasonitis on this one mate!

He is actually so valuable that we need to start planning for his replacement. I feel like Daniel Curtin could be a good replacement for him.

 

[AstonSouffle]

I will never understand the underrating of Luke Ryan on this board

He's excellent in everything he does, except for when he regularly gives it back to the other team from a kick-in so that's probably where it comes from. I'm still a big fan however!

 

[Docker82]

Saying it’s kick outs that are predictable is far too kind on Luke Ryan tbh. Has a tendency to take far too long following a mark as well - not all the time but a lot of the time.

If I’m completely honest the issue wasn’t as prominent in 2024 as it was in 2023.

 

[GingerDocker]

Saying it’s kick outs that are predictable is far too kind on Luke Ryan tbh. Has a tendency to take far too long following a mark as well - not all the time but a lot of the time.

If I’m completely honest the issue wasn’t as prominent in 2024 as it was in 2023.

That might be an indicator it's game plan or personnel related.

 

[theGav56]

That might be an indicator it's game plan or personnel related.

For sure. If it isn't what the coach wants, kick ins must be the easiest aspect of a game plan to fix.

 

[yakamoto]

How frequently do we launch attacks from kick ins?
After we have a kick in which team is most likely to score next?

 

[mattis117]

How frequently do we launch attacks from kick ins?
After we have a kick in which team is most likely to score next?

Not sure you're asking the right questions because these two have straight forward answers.

1. Everytime
2. The opponent.

Scoring from a kick in is low probability as a team must transition the entire ground through all 18 opponents, so it is the lowest probable avenue to goal, and this is backed up by empirical evidence.

It's actually not important at all to score from kick ins. It's just nice when it happens. Kick ins should be judged in the opposite way, which teams concede the most goals from their own kick ins.

Most scores come from turnover and stoppages. Turnover is the most reliable way to score because the opponent is caught out of position, they're running forward and suddenly have to double back to defend. This is why where a team turns the ball over is crucial. Turn it over in the front half and you have few players to get through to score, in the back half there are many opponents to go through still.

There's a reason coaches bang on about the contest, it's really what matters above all.

Not sure why I typed out all this lol, getting carried away, but just highlighting that scores from kick ins are borderline irrelevant and people shouldn't be concerned about it.

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Not sure you're asking the right questions because these two have straight forward answers.

1. Everytime
2. The opponent.

Scoring from a kick in is low probability as a team must transition the entire ground through all 18 opponents, so it is the lowest probable avenue to goal, and this is backed up by empirical evidence.

It's actually not important at all to score from kick ins. It's just nice when it happens. Kick ins should be judged in the opposite way, which teams concede the most goals from their own kick ins.

Most scores come from turnover and stoppages. Turnover is the most reliable way to score because the opponent is caught out of position, they're running forward and suddenly have to double back to defend. This is why where a team turns the ball over is crucial. Turn it over in the front half and you have few players to get through to score, in the back half there are many opponents to go through still.

There's a reason coaches bang on about the contest, it's really what matters above all.

Not sure why I typed out all this lol, getting carried away, but just highlighting that scores from kick ins are borderline irrelevant and people shouldn't be concerned about it.

Great explanation. To add stats, last year Port Adelaide scored the most from kick-ins, which makes sense coz Houston is really good and Port let him be very aggressive in his kick-ins. We were 16th, which about matches the eye test. They scored 5.9 points per game, we scored 3.0 points per game. Funnily enough, North were 18th at 1.7 points per game, which is crazy coz they probably had the most kick-ins in the comp.

I'd also add something like rate of entry into attacking half or fwd 50 as a potential way to judge being good at kick-ins. To an extent that's style-dependent: we have the mentality of "If we get a stoppage outside d50 that's a success, anything else is a bonus".

But as Taylor bangs on about (fairly rightly so imo), you gotta have good contested marking/bringing the ball down presence for kick-ins or when ball movement gets stagnant. That's on the KPPs/rucks largely, and unfortunately last season we missed Darcy and Cox, who at their best are very good at being those presences. Jackson's inconsistencies in that area also not ideal. In some of the games last season where JT was able to clunk them for fun up the ground, we felt unbeatable. Should be an area of improvement in 2025 with those players coming back from injury and/or developing their craft.