2025 List changes

[OniAu]

Yeah, you're right there. I'm not actually that confident. Just about 75% sure.

In all honesty , i think its great to go on predicting. Absolutely what the majority of sports is based on. Improvement/Potential and Decline of lists. So i think you have huge merit in assessing the list in that way.

However, no one could have foreseen we would have won the flag in 2023 after 2020/2021 debacle

 

[sr36]

No, but it allows some others to get more game time and yet others to be picked up and given a chance.

A lot would agree with you.

But here's the way I see it:

More game time:

If we don't have Sidey, his 20 odd games would get spread out around our fringe players - most of whom won't make it - maybe an extra 5 games to someone who does kick on. How much do those 5 games impact their career to make them better or more likely to make it in the long run. That intangible is somehow weighed against our whole group having Sidey and his experience and example to learn from. I don't think these extra games are an overall positive.

An extra player picked up - yep a bit more hope for the future. It is however the last player we add - the one we think is the least likely to make it.

That's weighed against the likelihood of being a lesser team - particularly as his late season form was so good. Now if you're just a bit pessimistic in your 2025 prediction, that's a high ranking team intentionally making their best 22 worse in order to add a very late pick or SSP player who may offer more in the future if you're lucky.

It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[cfc19902010]

Carlton supporters strangely have the same attitude.

We don’t bottom out for long
That’s why we are the greatest team

 

[cfc19902010]

In all honesty , i think its great to go on predicting. Absolutely what the majority of sports is based on. Improvement/Potential and Decline of lists. So i think you have huge merit in assessing the list in that way.

However, no one could have foreseen we would have won the flag in 2023 after 2020/2021 debacle

20 debacle ??
We won a final in perth after being stuffed around by afl during covid

 

[Finnishpie]

20 debacle ??
We won a final in perth after being stuffed around by afl during covid

Should have won the flag but our game plan was a generation out of date.

 

[OniAu]

20 debacle ??
We won a final in perth after being stuffed around by afl during covid

Trade period , fire sale. Treloar gone , Stephenson gone , Phillips gone. All for peanuts

 

[cfc19902010]

Trade period , fire sale. Treloar gone , Stephenson gone , Phillips gone. All for peanuts

Stevo and Philips value was peanuts

Treloar ageee
The point is I wouldn’t call 2020 winning a final a debacle

 

[OniAu]

Stevo and Philips value was peanuts

Treloar ageee
The point is I would call 2020 winning a final a debacle

Yeah sorry i wasnt clear. I was referring to the trade period. The season itself wasnt a debacle for us on the field.

 

[No SPIN]

By retaining all of them, younger players are not getting the opportunities and then we will lose all of them at once creating a huge vacuum. We've traditionally compromised our list for short term benefits which hasn't always borne fruit. Except for most of the father-son drafts, our draft record has not been very good. We've given up a lot on trades as well by trying to somehow get the trade done at any cost.

Whatever we say about Ginni, he used to give us a spark and drive which we have lacked this year. Hawks now, play with similar spark like we used to in the first two years of Fly. It all helps in getting the best out of everyone.

He also gave, laconic effort, no pressure, indifferent chasing, inattention, and lack of discipline.
We are way better off with Schultz.

 

[No SPIN]

Bytel is the one I'd look at keeping. Sullivan second. Long, alas, reminds me of a slightly less talented Rupert Wills.

Long is the big mid we need - he showed in spurts that he has potential, bursting through tackles, and tackling opposition key mids.
Bytel - offered nothing of note and I had high hopes for him. His hesitancy and indecision was a major issue.
Sullivan - again no standout traits.

 

[cfc19902010]

Long is the big mid we need - he showed in spurts that he has potential, bursting through tackles, and tackling opposition key mids.
Bytel - offered nothing of note and I had high hopes for him. His hesitancy and indecision was a major issue.
Sullivan - again no standout traits.

I don’t think long will make it
Not quick
Doesn’t think quickly either
Hope I’m wrong

 

[BuildEmUp]

I don’t think long will make it
Not quick
Doesn’t think quickly either
Hope I’m wrong

Allan i sthe big mid we need .. and have

 

[nahnah]

Long is the big mid we need - he showed in spurts that he has potential, bursting through tackles, and tackling opposition key mids.

I hope Allan is our large midfielder with ability to burst from stoppage which Long doesn't appear to have

 

[Johno9911]

I hope Allan is our large midfielder with ability to burst from stoppage which Long doesn't appear to have

Yep Ed is going to be a beauty! That being said though, I hope we do persist with Ned at least for another year - was just starting to find his feet in the last few games at AFL level.

While he does not have the burst or power Ed has, two big bulls in the stables next to each other as they develop can't be a bad thing to have, especially given they're 21 and 20 respectively.

 

[Hardas]

Long is the big mid we need - he showed in spurts that he has potential, bursting through tackles, and tackling opposition key mids.
Bytel - offered nothing of note and I had high hopes for him. His hesitancy and indecision was a major issue.
Sullivan - again no standout traits.

Yeah, I see Sully as reliable depth for now.
Agree on Bytel.
I see potential with Long too. He needs to think outside the box to improve his agility. Hire a gymnastics or dance teacher, for instance, to maximise his capacity to move sideways or change directions as fast as possible.

 

[Finnishpie]

Long is the big mid we need - he showed in spurts that he has potential, bursting through tackles, and tackling opposition key mids.
Bytel - offered nothing of note and I had high hopes for him. His hesitancy and indecision was a major issue.
Sullivan - again no standout traits.

Bytel seems to have the best skills.

Long isn’t the big we need. I don’t think anyway. He’s clumsy and a terrible kick.

 

[doofdoof]

Trade period , fire sale. Treloar gone , Stephenson gone , Phillips gone. All for peanuts

You mean the trade period that set us up for a flag?

The fire sale was exactly what we needed to clear out bad salary.

It allowed us to trade in Bobby, McStay, Lipinski, Mitchell, Frampton etc

 

[Piesinmyeyes]

Bytel seems to have the best skills.

Long isn’t the big we need. I don’t think anyway. He’s clumsy and a terrible kick.

Depends, do we want a tad clumsy,bigger body to shield Daicos n co, footskills aren’t that terrible I believe or a skilful yet slow thinking, reactionary, hesitant type.
I’d rather stick with the former, the latter are more commonplace…

 

[No SPIN]

Bytel seems to have the best skills.

Long isn’t the big we need. I don’t think anyway. He’s clumsy and a terrible kick.

I too was concerned about disposal but it’s improved- hitting targets inside 50 is a Good example and his DE is 64%, which is quite good given Lipinski who’s a great user is at 70%.

Bytel is not aggressive enough and often hesitates to commit to a contest, that certainly is not the case with Long.

 

[OniAu]

You mean the trade period that set us up for a flag?

The fire sale was exactly what we needed to clear out bad salary.

It allowed us to trade in Bobby, McStay, Lipinski, Mitchell, Frampton etc

You might need to read the previous posts to get the full idea of my posting

 

[doofdoof]

In all honesty , i think its great to go on predicting. Absolutely what the majority of sports is based on. Improvement/Potential and Decline of lists. So i think you have huge merit in assessing the list in that way.

However, no one could have foreseen we would have won the flag in 2023 after 2020/2021 debacle

You might need to read the previous posts to get the full idea of my posting

I said it at the time. Dumping all those guys was exactly what we needed. The internal and external messaging may have been a debacle, but the trade period was a huge success. Here is my post from Nov 2020

100% agree with OP. Ignore the sensationalist media BS. Getting rid of both was the right thing to do. Treloar was a liability, particularly on the $$$ and Stevo was clearly more interested in getting a root than being a professional footballer

 

[Finnishpie]

Should have won the flag but our game plan was a generation out of date.

You don't remember how Buckley turned our forward line into a desert with the slow, chipping, game plan that ruined careers Tarkyn_24 ? The only team who still plays a bit of that style has been Fremantle, the great under performers, and surprise surprise, Langmuir was coaching under Buckley in 2020.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

You don't remember how Buckley turned our forward line into a desert with the slow, chipping, game plan that ruined careers Tarkyn_24 ? The only team who still plays a bit of that style has been Fremantle, the great under performers, and surprise surprise, Langmuir was coaching under Buckley in 2020.

The game plan wasn’t optimal, but I also just don’t agree that it cost us a premiership.

The defensive first mindset also nearly won us one. Though I will concede our forwardline was much more potent the less time Longmuir had at the club to destroy the attacking ethos.

 

[Finnishpie]

He also gave, laconic effort, no pressure, indifferent chasing, inattention, and lack of discipline.
We are way better off with Schultz.

You can't compare a player from this year to one way another performed last year. That's a false equivalence. Looking at this year, it's an even swap. So we pretty much threw away draft picks. And you should take some blame with arguments like this.... Well, as long as we're not using logic.

 

[No SPIN]

You can't compare a player from this year to one way another performed last year. That's a false equivalence. Looking at this year, it's an even swap. So we pretty much threw away draft picks. And you should take some blame with arguments like this.... Well, as long as we're not using logic.

If Ginnivan did not have the qualities I listed he would never have been traded.
So it’s not false equivalence at all.
In fact he STILL displays some of his poor habits, at the Hawks eg laconic effort, and indiscipline, as have been highlighted of some of the review shows.