List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

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Someone who is an accountant should explain it properly, but professional athletes pay tax differently.

I googled it once, but way too complicated for me. Suffice to say, they pay tax differently than your average person, and take home more than someone on the same wage with a “normal” job.
I doubt they can payless tax than someone else on the same wage overall but by sports income averaging they can lessen the pain in high income years. I think the loophole in siphoning some of it off to separate trusts and the like has been closed.

Obviously accountants can get creative in finding deductible items that you're using to make yourself the best possible sportsperson you can be but I think any proposition that the more you earn you could somehow get bigger tax advantages is a bit of a furphy if you're doing the same thing as another player earning half as much.

Nonetheless the more you earn the more you end up with in your pocket regardless of whatever tax you pay. So I guess to some people that could be a big factor.
 

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Someone who is an accountant should explain it properly, but professional athletes pay tax differently. I googled it once, but way too complicated for me. Suffice to say, they pay tax differently than your average person, and take home more than someone on the same wage with a “normal” job.

I doubt they can payless tax than someone else on the same wage overall but by sports income averaging they can lessen the pain in high income years. I think the loophole in siphoning some of it off to separate trusts and the like has been closed.

Obviously accountants can get creative in finding deductible items that you're using to make yourself the best possible sportsperson you can be but I think any proposition that the more you earn you could somehow get bigger tax advantages is a bit of a furphy if you're doing the same thing as another player earning half as much.

Nonetheless the more you earn the more you end up with in your pocket regardless of whatever tax you pay. So I guess to some people that could be a big factor.
Always handy to find the spouse a job.I know many years ago a basketball club promised a player he would win teh mvp award which came with a car.Got a bit dodgy when he was injured.No doubt much more creative these days.
 
If Cornes wants to know how and what all he has to do is look at this top 10 list and notice not a single lions player is on the list ….
Just going off last year, from the Top 100 earners in the AFL article, the only players we have in the 100 are:
  • 23: Choc $850K - $950K
  • 45: Charlie $750K - $850K
  • 47: Joe [Retired] $750K - $850K
  • 50: Chief $750 - $850K
  • 69: Clug $700K - $750K [Will increase this season]
 
I doubt they can payless tax than someone else on the same wage overall but by sports income averaging they can lessen the pain in high income years. I think the loophole in siphoning some of it off to separate trusts and the like has been closed.

Obviously accountants can get creative in finding deductible items that you're using to make yourself the best possible sportsperson you can be but I think any proposition that the more you earn you could somehow get bigger tax advantages is a bit of a furphy if you're doing the same thing as another player earning half as much.
That’s not what I was suggesting at all.
Nonetheless the more you earn the more you end up with in your pocket regardless of whatever tax you pay. So I guess to some people that could be a big factor.
What I am saying is, they (professional athletes) actually have different tax laws than your average employee.

As I said before, I did look it up, but it’s very complicated (for me).

 
If Cornes wants to know how and what all he has to do is look at this top 10 list and notice not a single lions player is on the list …. View attachment 2214648
Our Salary Cap is the least of our worries, been such a professionally ran club in that regards for a long time and we will continue to reap the rewards for a few years yet.

I heard the comment while listening to the 3AW (?) Snippet regarding our cap vs the saints. Just a quick comparison from published number last year.

Neale (900k), McCluggage (~900k), Oscar/Joe (850k), Andrews (800k), Cameron (750k) Dunkley (700k)

Jack Steele (850k) Brad Hill (850k), King (800k) Sinclair (750k) Marshall (750k) Wilkie (750k)
For nearly the same amount of Salary Cap, I’d have us having a significant edge for on field performance.
Of those Neale and Cameron’s contracts should be tapering off, where as it’s likely Steele, Sinclair and Marshall will likely push for lucrative extensions as they expire at age 30.

While he can name Oscar, Rayner, Berry, Bailey, Lohmann, Logan, Ashcroft x 2 Fletcher as decent earners / Future earners. Stkilda also brought Butler, Higgins and Henry presumably on “overs” they have Phillipou, Owen’s, NWM, Windhagen and a few high rated draft picks this year that might warrant hefty extensions.

We’ve managed the bigger contract so well. Neales performance over the past 5 years, could easily warrant to be in the top 10 paid year in year out, he came in as the leagues 23rd highest paid player according to the Heralds article last year. McCluggage and Rayner undoubtedly didn’t get the highest offer from us. Dunkley by all reports is on similar money to what the Dogs offered, less than what Port offered. Player constantly taking 50-100k under market value for team success, sets a great precedent for others to do the same. This allows us to squeeze an extra high mid tier players other haven’t got.
 
If Cornes wants to know how and what all he has to do is look at this top 10 list and notice not a single lions player is on the list …. View attachment 2214648
I get you get some weird high spikes like Bolton (and the other Tigers) when you have a crap list and you front/back end big contracts. Probably similar with Kelly - while WCE are so bad you still have to pay someone.

But man I still cant believe that McKay got the payday he did and how quickly North were able to accept that FA compensation.
 
That’s not what I was suggesting at all.

What I am saying is, they (professional athletes) actually have different tax laws than your average employee.

As I said before, I did look it up, but it’s very complicated (for me).

I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting the point I was making.

The Tax Office might be a bit more lax in income averaging for professional sportspeople considering their limited time in the game to spread the load but overall the rules are the same as for any self employed person. Ultimately I can't see how they would pay any less tax than anyone else on the totality of their earnings over their career.

I think the muddy area that would likely get heavily scrutinised is where they're earing money/receiving benefits not related to their on field activities.
 
I get you get some weird high spikes like Bolton (and the other Tigers) when you have a crap list and you front/back end big contracts. Probably similar with Kelly - while WCE are so bad you still have to pay someone.

But man I still cant believe that McKay got the payday he did and how quickly North were able to accept that FA compensation.
McKay's contract I believe is front loaded. But yeah, his manager did very well, arguably there are a number of better fullbacks, including two of ours.
 
That’s not what I was suggesting at all.

What I am saying is, they (professional athletes) actually have different tax laws than your average employee.

As I said before, I did look it up, but it’s very complicated (for me).

entertainers, professional athletes, artist etc can apparently cost average their income over a set number of years. It might be five years, but it is not for their entire careers. I suspect professional sports persons are assessed as high income earners and therefore pay significant levels of income tax. Sure there are some strategies eg property negative gearing/ share portfolios, trust, establishing or buying into a business that is related to their actual sport eg gym, or perhaps Aussie Rules coaching/instructing, that can reduce individual tax obligations.
 
entertainers, professional athletes, artist etc can apparently cost average their income over a set number of years. It might be five years, but it is not for their entire careers. I suspect professional sports persons are assessed as high income earners and therefore pay significant levels of income tax. Sure there are some strategies eg property negative gearing/ share portfolios, trust, establishing or buying into a business that is related to their actual sport eg gym, or perhaps Aussie Rules coaching/instructing, that can reduce individual tax obligations.
Once your earnings exlplode as a self employed person the job of your accountant or manager is to find ways to reduce your tax burden as low as it could conceivably be but not send you broke in the process. The strategies are similar across the board for all young people on big money I would imagine. The safest bet for young sportspeople seems to be to shove it into property.
 

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Once your earnings exlplode as a self employed person the job of your accountant or manager is to find ways to reduce your tax burden as low as it could conceivably be but not send you broke in the process. The strategies are similar across the board for all young people on big money I would imagine. The safest bet for young sportspeople seems to be to shove it into property.
I've suggested in the past I think it would be worthwhile for the club to devote resources to ensuring our players are receiving appropriate financial advice. With the salary cap in place I think it would absolutely be a worthwhile investment.
 
I've suggested in the past I think it would be worthwhile for the club to devote resources to ensuring our players are receiving appropriate financial advice. With the salary cap in place I think it would absolutely be a worthwhile investment.
Absolutely. Its a dangerous financial world out there these days and the easiest prey are young or old people with lots of free cash flow.

Btw I love your new moniker. Rather than explain leave me to enjoy my own imaginings.
 
Just going off last year, from the Top 100 earners in the AFL article, the only players we have in the 100 are:
  • 23: Choc $850K - $950K
  • 45: Charlie $750K - $850K
  • 47: Joe [Retired] $750K - $850K
  • 50: Chief $750 - $850K
  • 69: Clug $700K - $750K [Will increase this season]

The pay equaliser these players were after was the premiership. Takes a team, and that means no superstar wages.
 
Someone who is an accountant should explain it properly, but professional athletes pay tax differently.

I googled it once, but way too complicated for me. Suffice to say, they pay tax differently than your average person, and take home more than someone on the same wage with a “normal” job.
When Taylor Gooch won the first LIV Golf event in Adelaide there was an uproar about the prize money given he was a visiting professional athlete.

"After his LIV Golf Adelaide victory in Australia last month, Gooch revealed that his $4 million jackpot for winning dropped down to a measly $2.1 million due to Aussie tax laws"

The win put him in the topAustralian tax bracket and he last somewhere around 48% in tax
 
Lynch, May, Cameron all left Suns/GWS to chase premierships for less pay at their own club. Would it be absolutely shocking to the AFL media if Allen took a reduced offer to chase a premiership at the Lions instead of captaining another rebuilding team? Tom Lynch did exactly the same thing and is now laughing with his premierships and his legacy. No point being a one-club player when you will easily become a foot-note in its already long history ala West Coast when you have the chance to become a premiership player somewhere else. I wonder if a team like Sydney would also chase Allen given how close they are and what they require.
 
Lynch, May, Cameron all left Suns/GWS to chase premierships for less pay at their own club. Would it be absolutely shocking to the AFL media if Allen took a reduced offer to chase a premiership at the Lions instead of captaining another rebuilding team? Tom Lynch did exactly the same thing and is now laughing with his premierships and his legacy. No point being a one-club player when you will easily become a foot-note in its already long history ala West Coast when you have the chance to become a premiership player somewhere else. I wonder if a team like Sydney would also chase Allen given how close they are and what they require.

More than likely our pitch will be this one. You take 100-200k less, we give you a longer contract like 5-6 years for stability + get you fit and firing. In return you get to play in a side with high finals potential and a shot at premiership. You taking that 200k less will enable us to retain another player who could be crucial for a premiership push.

West Coast would be willing to pay that 200k and more in order to keep him. The way to convince West Coast is based on the longevity of our offer and it's potential to trigger band 1 compo. Especially if West Coast ends up with another bottom 4 finish in 2025.
 
More than likely our pitch will be this one. You take 100-200k less, we give you a longer contract like 5-6 years for stability + get you fit and firing. In return you get to play in a side with high finals potential and a shot at premiership. You taking that 200k less will enable us to retain another player who could be crucial for a premiership push.

West Coast would be willing to pay that 200k and more in order to keep him. The way to convince West Coast is based on the longevity of our offer and it's potential to trigger band 1 compo. Especially if West Coast ends up with another bottom 4 finish in 2025.
It'll be a tough decision for Allen. He's consistently spoken about wanting to stay in WA and at the WEagles. But, being an emergency in a GF, in your first year of your career, where your team ultimately wins the Premiership and then hollows out the next few years, consistent finals appearances + a possible Premiership would be attractive.
 
Lynch, May, Cameron all left Suns/GWS to chase premierships for less pay at their own club. Would it be absolutely shocking to the AFL media if Allen took a reduced offer to chase a premiership at the Lions instead of captaining another rebuilding team? Tom Lynch did exactly the same thing and is now laughing with his premierships and his legacy. No point being a one-club player when you will easily become a foot-note in its already long history ala West Coast when you have the chance to become a premiership player somewhere else. I wonder if a team like Sydney would also chase Allen given how close they are and what they require.
Did Lynch actually take less pay overall though? He was on low pay for the first few years but it was a back-ended contract, and he's currently the highest-paid player in the league.
 
Lynch, May, Cameron all left Suns/GWS to chase premierships for less pay at their own club. Would it be absolutely shocking to the AFL media if Allen took a reduced offer to chase a premiership at the Lions instead of captaining another rebuilding team? Tom Lynch did exactly the same thing and is now laughing with his premierships and his legacy. No point being a one-club player when you will easily become a foot-note in its already long history ala West Coast when you have the chance to become a premiership player somewhere else. I wonder if a team like Sydney would also chase Allen given how close they are and what they require.
I don't know about Lynch taking less money. Reportedly been on $1m+ the last couple of years, while he's hardly played due to injuries.
 
When Taylor Gooch won the first LIV Golf event in Adelaide there was an uproar about the prize money given he was a visiting professional athlete.

"After his LIV Golf Adelaide victory in Australia last month, Gooch revealed that his $4 million jackpot for winning dropped down to a measly $2.1 million due to Aussie tax laws"

The win put him in the topAustralian tax bracket and he last somewhere around 48% in tax
Australia thanks you for your contribution Taylor.
 

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