Past #26: Tarryn Thomas - Roo until end '24

[RobZombie]

How does it work now anyway. Back with McDonald they had a system where we picked in a pre-draft event where other teams said what pick they would use on him and if we would match (so all commitments were done early).

These days I thought it was the case that it was just done on the night as the draft went through.

Not only was the bidding before the draft, it was before the trade period, where WCE traded 6 to Collingwood who used it on Scharenberg. There's no way to know whether Collingwood would have bid that pick, or for that matter the Lions with 7 (Aish). So we're justified in feeling screwed over on that front.

These days yes, it's all on the night with the points system as DP says.

In terms of committing to the player, all the rules can really require you to commit to is nominating the player as one of your F/S or academy eligible picks, not to taking them. In reality we probably committed more than that to Luke and his manager, which was complicated by needing to keep him out of the minidraft a year further out. But that's a matter for the club and the player, not the F/S rules.

 

[czero]

Not only was the bidding before the draft, it was before the trade period, where WCE traded 6 to Collingwood who used it on Scharenberg. There's no way to know whether Collingwood would have bid that pick, or for that matter the Lions with 7 (Aish). So we're justified in feeling screwed over on that front.

These days yes, it's all on the night with the points system as DP says.

In terms of committing to the player, all the rules can really require you to commit to is nominating the player as one of your F/S or academy eligible picks, not to taking them. In reality we probably committed more than that to Luke and his manager, which was complicated by needing to keep him out of the minidraft a year further out. But that's a matter for the club and the player, not the F/S rules.

It was still fair in the sense that had we said no, we are not matching that high, westcoast would no of been able to trade no?

 

[czero]

This about the new draft mechanisms is very enlightening (even uses north as an example).
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-10/crystal-ball-how-live-pick-trading-might-look

 

[The Brady Bunch]

This about the new draft mechanisms is very enlightening (even uses north as an example).
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-10/crystal-ball-how-live-pick-trading-might-look

It's such an unrealistic example though. Everybody knows Adrian Dodoro is the biggest campaigner in football and cannot get a trade done without feeling the need to screw everyone over.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

The only thing I would add to this is that you must use the next pick you have available after the one that is bid on the player, so if we end up with pick #10 and some other club bid's pick #8 for him, we must use our pick #10 on him... assuming we still have the pick. It has been largely why the club has said our first pick is up for trade earlier in the year, when TT was being billed as a top 3 player and possible #1.

Yes, this is why I specifically mentioned "next" pick.

You can't just cobble together the points from the low end.

 

[Firestarter]

Call me stupid (I do all the time) but it sounds so utterly stupid and unnecessary.

What was wrong with just using your immediate next pick and being done?

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Call me stupid (I do all the time) but it sounds so utterly stupid and unnecessary.

What was wrong with just using your immediate next pick and being done?

Clubs were not paying adequate value for their F/S and Academy.

and when I say clubs, I mean Academy clubs.

If Brisbane finished first, and Carlton selected an academy kid they saw as worthy of pick 1, Brisbane only had to cough up pick 18.

They were getting too many draft steals and manipulating the system

 

[Firestarter]

Clubs were not paying adequate value for their F/S and Academy.

and when I say clubs, I mean Academy clubs.

If Brisbane finished first, and Carlton selected an academy kid they saw as worthy of pick 1, Brisbane only had to cough up pick 18.

They were getting too many draft steals and manipulating the system

That is logic. /not s

 

[RobZombie]

Call me stupid (I do all the time) but it sounds so utterly stupid and unnecessary.

What was wrong with just using your immediate next pick and being done?

Because you had outliers like Sydney getting Heeney for pick 18 with a bid at pick 2, and Melbourne getting Viney for a second round pick via possibly shady means.

Then academies come in and the likelihood of northern clubs getting discounts every year, and in the case of GWS when they still had the Riverina in their zone multiple first rounders, it was unfair for them to cough up 2nd and 3rd rounders for 1st round talent. Even with the points-hoarding free for all of the first year they had to give up players to get the points.

 

[czero]

It's such an unrealistic example though. Everybody knows Adrian Dodoro is the biggest campaigner in football and cannot get a trade done without feeling the need to screw everyone over.

Hmm. I think it is very realistic depending on how the clock works. Because after reading that its not super clear.

Say if I was a club with a pick right before north - when it was my time on the clock I would say to north that I was taking thier pick and offer them a chance to trade up. As I read it, I would NOT actually pick the future FS/A kid before north gets an opportunity to trade.

So if north do it, then bloody awesome, because now I might get a whole lot more plus the next pick.

If they don't I can still just go 'psyke!' and not even pick norths player. Its a NO RISK dummy bid.

 

[Pykie]

Call me stupid (I do all the time) but it sounds so utterly stupid and unnecessary.

What was wrong with just using your immediate next pick and being done?

Because Sydney were getting top 3 picks for Pick 18.

 

[Harris 10]

Because Sydney were getting top 3 picks for Pick 18.

The Viney deal to Melbourne was the biggest scam.

 

[Rockstar6]

I haven't lost my mind, just pointing out why we likely haven't gone to the effort to push him into the VFL.

Don't need to push him into the VFL side, I prefer him to fly under the radar and just play TSl or whatever he is playing.

 

[ArchKing Carey]

Hmm. I think it is very realistic depending on how the clock works. Because after reading that its not super clear.

Say if I was a club with a pick right before north - when it was my time on the clock I would say to north that I was taking thier pick and offer them a chance to trade up. As I read it, I would NOT actually pick the future FS/A kid before north gets an opportunity to trade.

So if north do it, then bloody awesome, because now I might get a whole lot more plus the next pick.

If they don't I can still just go 'psyke!' and not even pick norths player. Its a NO RISK dummy bid.

I guess, we could also trade down and not up if we think Essendon was gonna pick Thomas before us and wasn't gonna bargain.
Turn our pick 9 into a later first round pick with another club where we actually value Thomas and pick up a 2nd round and early third round pick to add to our existing picks. Depending on points, we might end up with Thomas and two second rounders.
As an example, I'm not factoring in points but it might be a way to avoid "overpaying" for TT.

 

[DunderHead]

I guess, we could also trade down and not up if we think Essendon was gonna pick Thomas before us and wasn't gonna bargain.
Turn our pick 9 into a later first round pick with another club where we actually value Thomas and pick up a 2nd round and early third round pick to add to our existing picks. Depending on points, we might end up with Thomas and two second rounders.
As an example, I'm not factoring in points but it might be a way to avoid "overpaying" for TT.

Better to swap for a 2019 first rounder and given the weaker draft also acccept a 2018 third rounder.

This is all hypo ofcourse. We will need to use our first rounder on Polec. But hopefully we net a a second or third rounder in return.

 

[czero]

I guess, we could also trade down and not up if we think Essendon was gonna pick Thomas before us and wasn't gonna bargain.
Turn our pick 9 into a later first round pick with another club where we actually value Thomas and pick up a 2nd round and early third round pick to add to our existing picks. Depending on points, we might end up with Thomas and two second rounders.
As an example, I'm not factoring in points but it might be a way to avoid "overpaying" for TT.

Could do. I wonder how long the clock is.

If we think Tarryn ends up being a pick close to our end pick (either direction) we would probably want to set up something like this kind of trade nice and early and not do it live, because being first time through and all I reckon a lot of teams won't be used to working under a clock to see if they like or do not like a deal. I think getting a deal done under a clock will be hard as you will need to make sure at the very least you dont wast 20% of your points trading down as it takes away the discount you get from FS/A.

At the same time, if you don't think tarryn is close, or say 3+ or so places back from where you are actually - then if you deal early you lose the ability to possibly a slightly advantageous draft (by taking both Tarryn and another first rounder with basically no other picks left), or the possibility of a real steal being available that makes you think twice about tarryn or using that first pick. Remember we want the best available - that might not be Tarryn if someone picks him before us (I'm he will be best though!).

Its going to be an interesting draft!

 

[DarkPhoenix]

If they don't I can still just go 'psyke!' and not even pick norths player. Its a NO RISK dummy bid.

Straight up lying to another club about your intentions would likely be classifiable as draft tampering.

 

[tiltraise]

Better to swap for a 2019 first rounder and given the weaker draft also acccept a 2018 third rounder.

This is all hypo ofcourse. We will need to use our first rounder on Polec. But hopefully we net a a second or third rounder in return.

The question is can we get Ports 2019 1R as part of the Polec deal by giving away our 1R + our 2019 2R?

This trade likely values Polec at ~#20.

 

[czero]

Straight up lying to another club about your intentions would likely be classifiable as draft tampering.

Nope. Until you make your pick you can change your mind at any stage. Just because you tell another team that we are thinking of getting him, does not mean you will.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Nope. Until you make your pick you can change your mind at any stage. Just because you tell another team that we are thinking of getting him, does not mean you will.

If you say something to the other clubs to sway their strategy. That's tampering

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[czero]

If you say something to the other clubs to sway their strategy. That's tampering

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That's not tampering. If it was then the teams wouldn't be able to communicate at all - as swaying other teams is what they are always doing.

I don't think that conversations between clubs during any trade period (including live trading) cannot be construed as draft tampering just because they are hiding their true intentions. I mean, that happens now.

It will probably make you not want to deal with them, but hardly draft tampering.

 

[gotJohnny]

So just with matching of bids.

Hypothetically - TT gets bid on pick 5 worth 1500?
We got pick 10 worth 1000?

Instead of using pick 10 could we potentially use pick 22, 48,67 etc etc to make up the required 1500 and then still use pick 10?

Obviously ignore all the point values and draft picks i’ve used as a reference.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tiltraise]

Hypothetically - TT gets bid on pick 5 worth 1500?
We got pick 10 worth 1000?

Instead of using pick 10 could we potentially use pick 22, 48,67 etc etc to make up the required 1500 and then still use pick 10?

No if you want to match a bid your next available picks are voided until the points total is met with any leftover points then generating a new pick at the appropriate value.

 

[The Nostradamus]

I wouldn't match anything before pick 10

 

[darko]

So just with matching of bids.

Hypothetically - TT gets bid on pick 5 worth 1500?
We got pick 10 worth 1000?

Instead of using pick 10 could we potentially use pick 22, 48,67 etc etc to make up the required 1500 and then still use pick 10?

Obviously ignore all the point values and draft picks i’ve used as a reference.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Nope.