Player Watch #27 Thomson Dow

[Madtiger2006]

He is a Tom Hislop, Adam Thompson, Mitch Farmer, Dean Polo ect list clogger.

Thats the problem. Most see him much better than those. He has composure under pressure. Gets the ball moving with quick hands and doesn’t panic. Has a nice sidestep. Kicking will get better. Good future. How can you not see that lol

 

[Mr Magic]

I think some are missinbg the point.

First of all I am not sold Dow is just a mid and there is room for growth.

Secondly, he may not win us a flag, but this is more about him helping us win a flag, or even helping us to get to win a flag and it is a team game.

Some commentators seem to be not flag conscious and looking far enough ahead where game styles could change long with match ups and team mixs with far greater talent coming in

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

That's great. Plenty of guys have been given games for a few years to only realise they're wrong.

Would love to be wrong but he has no attributes to show he can make it.

Very very limited footballer. Hes not 18/19 and id be shocked if he is on an AFL list in 2-3 years. The fact we are so bad right now will bless him to 100 games.

He is a Tom Hislop, Adam Thompson, Mitch Farmer, Dean Polo ect list clogger.

In your opinion *
Our premiership sides had plenty of players who would appear ‘list cloggers ‘ when not within those sides .
Don’t think anyone is or should be expecting Dow to win a Brownlow .

 

[Wooden Robot]

Due to our current situation, with some retirements imminent and a lot of experienced premiership players falling off the perch at a rate of knots, he'll likely end up playing 100 games, maybe 120 or 130.
That will be more a reflection on where we are at and are going to be at, than Dow himself.
Timing is everything and he's just happened to mature somewhat at the wrong time in our history.

 

[TigerTime88]

In your opinion *
Our premiership sides had plenty of players who would appear ‘list cloggers ‘ when not within those sides .
Don’t think anyone is or should be expecting Dow to win a Brownlow .

There is a difference between your flankers or pockets being bottom 5 types and a guy in your starting mid rotation. Time will tell.

 

[TigerTime88]

Thats the problem. Most see him much better than those. He has composure under pressure. Gets the ball moving with quick hands and doesn’t panic. Has a nice sidestep. Kicking will get better. Good future. How can you not see that lol

He gives the odd decent handball. His disposal is very poor and he cannot find the footy.

 

[Muddiemoose]

There is a difference between your flankers or pockets being bottom 5 types and a guy in your starting mid rotation. Time will tell.

Dunno if it’s as much as a big of a deal

Flanks and pockets tend to be one of the easier possies to play for young players with size not being a massive deal breaker where inside mid is one of the more difficult possies on the ground because you can be matched up against the biggest and best oppo players

Becomes worse when you are extra exposed without fellow big bodies around to help with the match ups like Dow has delt with all year

 

[T4P]

Players who got games during our 2017 flag season:

• Taylor Hunt
• Ben Lennon
• Corey Ellis
• Conor Menadue
• Steve Morris
• Ryan Garthwaite
• Jake Bachelor
• Todd Elton
• Ben Griffiths

Give Thomson Dow the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Afl_expert678]

Thats the problem. Most see him much better than those. He has composure under pressure. Gets the ball moving with quick hands and doesn’t panic. Has a nice sidestep. Kicking will get better. Good future. How can you not see that lol

Couldn’t agree more kicking will get better with experience. And to whoever said he can’t find the footy he is averaging 20+ disp
He could Evan finish top five n b&f
Why hasn’t he resigned yet do u think?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[panatha1908]

I think he stays on the list until people go past him, or maybe he improves with games. But with all the retirements and trades for draft picks he is safe this year. Next year will be interesting with 1 or 2 top midfield draftees. As they come on we can start sorting through.

 

[Ctl]

wonder if any other teams would have interest? maybe dees for some depth given the brayshaw retirement and losing a few mids last trade period

 

[Afl_expert678]

I think he stays on the list until people go past him, or maybe he improves with games. But with all the retirements and trades for draft picks he is safe this year. Next year will be interesting with 1 or 2 top midfield draftees. As they come on we can start sorting through.

What draft picks are Richmond looking at?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Afl_expert678]

wonder if any other teams would have interest? maybe dees for some depth given the brayshaw retirement and losing a few mids last trade period

Possibly but don’t think Richmond would want to trade
That’s why I’m wondering y he hasn’t resigned?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ctl]

Possibly but don’t think Richmond would want to trade
That’s why I’m wondering y he hasn’t resigned?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't view dow as a longterm afl player, if another club wanted him i'd be open to trade.

Richmond are probably just keeping their list spots flexible until things shape up either closer to the draft or post draft

 

[Afl_expert678]

I don't view dow as a longterm afl player, if another club wanted him i'd be open to trade.

Richmond are probably just keeping their list spots flexible until things shape up either closer to the draft or post draft

Quoting Buckley-“ can’t wait too what Dow does in the next couple of years” he’s a rapidly improving player ?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[LTT]

I think he stays on the list until people go past him, or maybe he improves with games. But with all the retirements and trades for draft picks he is safe this year. Next year will be interesting with 1 or 2 top midfield draftees. As they come on we can start sorting through.

I think you are probably right. I see that we have three inside bulls in Toranto, Hopper and McAulif. We might get another in the draft. I don’t see Dow displacing any of them. Bolton and Ross can play inside and outside and play a second position. Sonsie can play forward and midfield so I don’t see Dow displacing them either. I really don’t see where Dow fits long term.

 

[richoplzbreed]

Couldn’t agree more kicking will get better with experience. And to whoever said he can’t find the footy he is averaging 20+ disp
He could Evan finish top five n b&f
Why hasn’t he resigned yet do u think?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

He's ACTUALLY averaging 16 disposals including 5 limp noodle kicks that appear to have been kicked by an U12 as they rarely go >30m, have no penetration and usually float like a hospital pass. By virtue of having zero other strings to his bow he has played 99% game time as a midfielder. Uniquely he's neither strong nor fast. Basically a feebly built plodder. If he wasn't a 1st rounder he would've been delisted like a Will Martyn type. He is a toral liabilty up forward and in 31 career games he has kicked 1 solitary goal, which for a player that has never once played in the back 6 is comical. Because of this ineptness it has meant he gets preferential midfield time over superior players in Ross, Mcauliffe, Sonsie and Graham because they are at least serviceable in F50.

14 straight games in his 5th year playing 99% in the midfield averaging 16 touches is a debacle. Back pockets and Forwards at starvation corner can almost match that. And our BnF this year will basically represent who wasn't injured not who played well. Hopper will be back soon and Mcaulliffe deserves to play, no way in hell can Dow hold his spot much longer. He's a bust. Oh and his kicking will get better is a furphy....... he's that scared to kick he poops himself that he delays so long further exposing how poor his kicking is. It's like saying Ryan's and Kozitsches marking will improve..... I'd argue some players with deficiencies actually get worse.

 

[docko911]

1. Elliot Yeo … averaged 15 touches, 2 tackles and 1.5 clearances in his first 3-years and 40 games of footy. (Years 4 and 5 he still only averaged 17 touches in 44 games).

Rowbottom averaged 14.5 touches and 2.5 clearances in his first 3 years / 45 games of footy.

Durham averaged 15 touches and 1.2 clearances in his first 3 years / 49 games of footy.

Parish averaged 20 touches and 3.5 clearances in his first 5 years and 93 games and looked like a top-5 bust, before exploding in year 6.

Archie Perkins averaged 13 touches and 1 clearance in his first 3 years / 62 games - this year he’s really improved and it’s 19 touches and 3.2.

Garcia from Dogs played 19 games in his first 3 years, averaging 11 touches and 1 clearance. This year he looks really promising as a 23yo, averaging 17.5 and 2.2.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

1. Elliot Yeo played more half back and wing for the first half of his career. He played in a GF in his 4th season.
2. Rowbottom is a defensive midfielder (6+ tackles per game average) and has been good from his 3rd year.
3. Closest comparison but 1 year behind Dow in terms of being in the AFL system. Durham is going alright but we’ll see if he is consistent enough to make it. Essendon midfield is still pretty average.
4. Parish averaged 20 disposals in his first 5 years, Dow is averaging 15 (say 16 for sub use) in his first 5 years.
5. Perkins is plays wing
6. Mature age fringe player going alright this year in a handful of games. Still only 4th year in the system.

 

[docko911]

Even though I’m very skeptical about Dow’s long term prospects at the club (too many flaws to overcome) he’s improved from last season and improved from within this season. Which given where our list profile is at (impending trades, retirements and FA signings over the next 2-3 seasons and likely a bottom four team) is enough to give him a few more seasons to see what he can do IMO.

So I’ll bite. In answer to your points:

1. A few have already given examples of actual players. But to flip the script, how many players get drafted to a premiership winning team, then have their first two seasons impacted by COVID (so no reserves comp.) then lose another half of a season due to a burst appendix? To compare, Noah Anderson (same draft; and yes he’s a better player but it’s not the point) has played effectively a season and a half more than Dow in total games (AFL + VFL).

2. When did disposal become the benchmark of success? I happen to remember a 7 possession HRS game two weeks ago which was extremely influential. Likewise I’ve seen 40 possession games that have been uninflentual. I’d rather him average the second most clearances a game as a midfielder than the second most possessions. Also, for what it’s worth, Richmond have been in the bottom few teams of disposals per game since the start of 2017.

3. Okay. Not sure that this mean anything exactly.

4. No one has said he’s a tackle machine; and undoubtedly is an area of improvement. Still he averages more tackles than Hopper, Prestia, Dusty, Ross among others.

5. Neither are a lot of players. There’s also a lot of quick players that never amount to anything.

6. If only Fantasy scores matter. Again using HRS v Adelaide; despite being extremely influential; he had 37 which was the fourth worst taking out substitutes. That same game v Adelaide, the Crows had 3 of the top 4 fantasy scores for the game and they lost. Fantasy as a measurement for anything other than the quality of your Fantasy team should be disregarded.

It’s funny to me that there’s so much anger from some over Thomson, yet those that ‘defend’ him all come from the same place - he has flaws, he needs to improve, and he will unlikely be anything other than a role player (which every team needs). There’s a few parts of his game which show promise so maybe we should exercise a little patience.

1. If that was such a major factor we wouldn’t be seeing so many gun/good players from that draft.
2. It does matter when the player is slow, can’t tackle, can’t kick/doesn’t kick and pretty much looks to handball even when they should kick. Dow would be lucky to have 3-4 valuable possessions a game. He’s Tom Mitchell getting 15 not 30+.
3. Unless you’re moving the chains like Cotchin, Lambert and Edward’s used to do, it matters if you’re a midfielder that doesn’t get a lot of the ball and doesn’t kick.
4. It matters if you don’t offer anything else valuable to the team. Hopper/Prestia average 4 tackles over their career, Ross has played a lot of time on the wing not inside. Martin average more the first half of his career but given he’s been the best attacking mid in the AFL over his career not a great comparison.
5. It just highlights he isn’t getting a game because of his speed/defensive running. This is usually a trait which explains lower possessions.
6. HRS is a winger so not a great comparison. SuperCoach is actually a pretty good measure of midfielders performance most of the time.

Anger isn’t the word I’d use. I would say we’ve had the opportunity to really test a youngish player at AFL level and they haven’t met the standard. The problem is he is now getting picked ahead of McAuliffe and Sonsie isn’t getting a run in the midfield to see if he can do anything.

Dow unfortunately cannot be a role player for a lot of key points I mentioned. He’s not quick, he’s not a strong tackler, and he doesn’t offer anything particularly special. He is basically inside mid or bust. Unless he’s going well in the middle he shouldn’t be in the team.

In terms of patience it should only be the remainder of the year. I’d drop him to the VFL when Hopper returns. If he can go back to VFL and absolutely dominate for a few weeks then we give him another run at AFL level to see if he can bring his game up closer to the level. If not, delist him. Same should apply to Cumbo and possibly HRS, both played like shit v Hawthorn.

 

[Mr Magic]

1. If that was such a major factor we wouldn’t be seeing so many gun/good players from that draft.
2. It does matter when the player is slow, can’t tackle, can’t kick/doesn’t kick and pretty much looks to handball even when they should kick. Dow would be lucky to have 3-4 valuable possessions a game. He’s Tom Mitchell getting 15 not 30+.
3. Unless you’re moving the chains like Cotchin, Lambert and Edward’s used to do, it matters if you’re a midfielder that doesn’t get a lot of the ball and doesn’t kick.
4. It matters if you don’t offer anything else valuable to the team. Hopper/Prestia average 4 tackles over their career, Ross has played a lot of time on the wing not inside. Martin average more the first half of his career but given he’s been the best attacking mid in the AFL over his career not a great comparison.
5. It just highlights he isn’t getting a game because of his speed/defensive running. This is usually a trait which explains lower possessions.
6. HRS is a winger so not a great comparison. SuperCoach is actually a pretty good measure of midfielders performance most of the time.

Anger isn’t the word I’d use. I would say we’ve had the opportunity to really test a youngish player at AFL level and they haven’t met the standard. The problem is he is now getting picked ahead of McAuliffe and Sonsie isn’t getting a run in the midfield to see if he can do anything.

Dow unfortunately cannot be a role player for a lot of key points I mentioned. He’s not quick, he’s not a strong tackler, and he doesn’t offer anything particularly special. He is basically inside mid or bust. Unless he’s going well in the middle he shouldn’t be in the team.

In terms of patience it should only be the remainder of the year. I’d drop him to the VFL when Hopper returns. If he can go back to VFL and absolutely dominate for a few weeks then we give him another run at AFL level to see if he can bring his game up closer to the level. If not, delist him. Same should apply to Cumbo and possibly HRS, both played like shit v Hawthorn.

The campaign against Dow is strong in this one.

Which players you are trying to protect is the obvious point of interest?

 

[Afl_expert678]

The campaign against Dow is strong in this one.

Which players you are trying to protect is the obvious point of interest?

I’m predicting Carlton v Richmond
Dow will get 30+ disp kick a goal
10 clearances?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Grrr]

I’m predicting Carlton v Richmond
Dow will get 30+ disp kick a goal
10 clearances?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

... and taking Cripps out of the game.

 

[Madtiger2006]

I’m predicting Carlton v Richmond
Dow will get 30+ disp kick a goal
10 clearances?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Won’t be far off

 

[tigs2010]

People need to ask themselves what they thought would come of Ross when he had 30-games under his belt…. he’s an infinitely better player now than he was as a 30-gamer. Ben Miller now has 37-games - no coincidence he has really established himself as he’s gotten closer to 40-games. Hugo now has 41-games… way better than he was as a 30-game player. Mansell has 44-games. 2 weeks ago against Adelaide he was the HIGHEST ranked player on the ground… I was also too early to judge Mansell, and believe he has a future.

Nearly every single player to ever pull on a boot is significantly better at 50-games than they were at 30-games. So whatever Dow is producing now, I’m super confident he will be much better mid-season 2025. Whether that is enough to make the grade will depend on the level of development.

But Ross, Miller, Hugo, MRJ, Mansell …. and from yesteryear Astbury, Edwards, Houli, Rance, Grimes etc… has taught me to give 40-50 games to those who’ve shown at least glimpses of talent before making final judgements.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Ross looked a jet out of the blocks in his first games until he busted his foot and went on the PoW diet.

 

[richoplzbreed]

I’m predicting Carlton v Richmond
Dow will get 30+ disp kick a goal
10 clearances?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

See if any of the betting agencies have a market for him to JUST kick a goal never mind the 30+ disposals. He can't kick and uses it only as a last resort when no other option available. He's had numerous shots over the years but struggles to kick over a jamtin.. Would need the miraculous intervention of a 50m penalty to plonk him in the goal square to kick a goal. And unlike your team we NEVER get stroked by the cheating umpires. I'd feel better if I found out he saved 10 kids from a burning orphanage, or is world champion at the egg and spoon race..... because I've seen nothing to justify being a 1st round pick. He makes RCD look like Geoff Raines by comparison.