Retired #29: Jake Kelly - Announces Retirement. Thanks Bull! 2/9

[Lore]

Contract Status: Out of contract 2024
My Boy Draft 2023: Claim here

 

[Ambrosia]

Well, yeah, he's a defensive defender. Why would you man a guy up who's job it is to beat your forward.

You man up the offensive defenders.

I don’t think expecting an AFL footballer to not actively hurt our ball movement with his poor skills is asking too much.

Who in recent premiership sides backlines are as limited ball in hand as Kelly and to a lesser extent Laverde?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I don’t think expecting an AFL footballer to not actively hurt our ball movement with his poor skills is asking too much.

Who in recent premiership sides backlines are as limited ball in hand as Kelly and to a lesser extent Laverde?

Laverde’s kicking out of defence has been pretty good …his problem was getting too much under the ball when had set shots for goal

 

[eth-dog]

I don’t think expecting an AFL footballer to not actively hurt our ball movement with his poor skills is asking too much.

Who in recent premiership sides backlines are as limited ball in hand as Kelly and to a lesser extent Laverde?

Melbourne had Petty as a limited kick.
Richmond had Broad, Astbury and Grimes.
West Coast had Sheppard and Schofield
Dogs had Hamling and Roberts
Hawthorne had Stratton and Duryea

All of whom also happen to be pretty good defenders.

 

[faible]

Melbourne had Petty as a limited kick.
Richmond had Broad, Astbury and Grimes.
West Coast had Sheppard and Schofield
Dogs had Hamling and Roberts
Hawthorne had Stratton and Duryea

All of whom also happen to be pretty good defenders.

But I mean other than the last 10 years of Premiership sides, who?

 

[Ambrosia]

Melbourne had Petty as a limited kick.
Richmond had Broad, Astbury and Grimes.
West Coast had Sheppard and Schofield
Dogs had Hamling and Roberts
Hawthorne had Stratton and Duryea

All of whom also happen to be pretty good defenders.

I would have Kelly and Laverde as bottom 3 users in that group.

Listing guys like Broad and Duryea as comparable to Kelly is laughable in terms of ability ball in hand.

Kelly is averaging 3 turnovers a game whilst exclusively going short and wide or long down the line. He also really struggles at making quick decisions by hand.

 

[ant555]

I would have Kelly and Laverde as bottom 3 users in that group.

Listing guys like Broad and Duryea as comparable to Kelly is laughable in terms of ability ball in hand.

Kelly is averaging 3 turnovers a game whilst exclusively going short and wide or long down the line. He also really struggles at making quick decisions by hand.

Ranks 225 in the league for turnovers. Has averaged less than 3 turnovers over his career.
You have the blinkers on.
First it is poor skills yet his kicking efficiency is rated elite.
Now he turns it over and never does anything effective by foot.
What's next ? Wears one sock up and one sock down ?

 

[Mikevk123]

Ranks 225 in the league for turnovers. Has averaged less than 3 turnovers over his career.
You have the blinkers on.
First it is poor skills yet his kicking efficiency is rated elite.
Now he turns it over and never does anything effective by foot.
What's next ? Wears one sock up and one sock down ?

Easy to have good efficiency when it’s a chip sideways or backwards Kick.

 

[Ambrosia]

Ranks 225 in the league for turnovers. Has averaged less than 3 turnovers over his career.
You have the blinkers on.
First it is poor skills yet his kicking efficiency is rated elite.
Now he turns it over and never does anything effective by foot.
What's next ? Wears one sock up and one sock down ?

What the heck? I have not changed argument at all. Kicking efficiency is a meaningless stat when you only go sideways or long down the line.

More then welcome to disagree with me but the above post is bullshit.

Edit: 3.0 TOs a game is horrible for the type of kicks he’s taking. Guys who play similar roles for other teams Jonás, Broad, Wilkie and Logue aren’t near 3 a game.

 

[ant555]

What the heck? I have not changed argument at all. Kicking efficiency is a meaningless stat when you only go sideways or long down the line.

More then welcome to disagree with me but the above post is bullshit.

You changed the narrative from shit skills to just kicks it sideways or down the line. Below are your words.

I don’t know how people like this guy. Sure he’s decent defensively but tonight was the 3rd game I’ve seen the opposition identify him as a man not worth manning up. It’s grossly obvious live.

He’s shocking by foot. Much rather Laverde play small

I don’t think expecting an AFL footballer to not actively hurt our ball movement with his poor skills is asking too much.

Who in recent premiership sides backlines are as limited ball in hand as Kelly and to a lesser extent Laverde?

And he does not always go sideways or down the line. It is not like he misses obvious targets that are running free as when we play bad there are none to hit up !
At the Crows he went sideways because that is how they set up with the spare player.
I am happy to keep challenging this. I am calling bullshit.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I'll be blunt, complaining that Kelly is not an elite defender is like complaining that your microwave can't deep-fry chicken.

 

[Ambrosia]

You changed the narrative from s**t skills to just kicks it sideways or down the line. Below are your words.




And he does not always go sideways or down the line. It is not like he misses obvious targets that are running free as when we play bad there are none to hit up !
At the Crows he went sideways because that is how they set up with the spare player.
I am happy to keep challenging this. I am calling bullshit.

I really don’t think the above is an example of me changing the narrative.

My belief is he only goes short and wide because he has shit skills and he’s bad at even just doing that hence the 3 TO a game. Don’t really see how that’s a change of narrative at all more different facets of the same argument.

There’s no point is arguing though because we disagree both on how bad he is ball in hand and whether or not it’s something that can be made up for by being good defensively.

Maybe my conception of what is important at AFL is wrong and I underrate guys whose best skill is their work defensively but I’ve definitely been consistent imo.

 

[Mikevk123]

Not impressed with his acquisition. He’s just another Dodo “paper over the cracks” pick. 3 year deal as well.

Keep in mind the club had Reid, Brand, Zerk-Thatcher, Eyre and Francis all playing VFL over the weekend.

The 2021 draft/trade period is looking pretty grim bar Ben Hobbs.

 

[bjisgod9]

Not impressed with his acquisition. He’s just another Dodo “paper over the cracks” pick. 3 year deal as well.

Keep in mind the club had Reid, Brand, Zerk-Thatcher, Eyre and Francis all playing VFL over the weekend.

The 2021 draft/trade period is looking pretty grim bar Ben Hobbs.

None of whom could play the role he was recruited for mind you

 

[Lore]

I really don’t think the above is an example of me changing the narrative.

My belief is he only goes short and wide because he has s**t skills and he’s bad at even just doing that hence the 3 TO a game. Don’t really see how that’s a change of narrative at all more different facets of the same argument.

There’s no point is arguing though because we disagree both on how bad he is ball in hand and whether or not it’s something that can be made up for by being good defensively.

Maybe my conception of what is important at AFL is wrong and I underrate guys whose best skill is their work defensively but I’ve definitely been consistent imo.

Do you go to games live? Coz I noticed watching on TV last week that individual players can look really shit when the camera is closing in on them or only showing the end of the field, but I’ve gone to most games live so far this year and when you’re at the ground there is literally nothing to kick to upfield.

The structure is really all over the place, there are holes where there should be players and players where there should be gaps, and then you’ve got a loose man at the wrong end and one bloke manning up two opponents on the switch.

If your midfield isn’t constantly moving to open a gap in their defence you’re going to struggle to get up the ground. And it’s exactly the same problem that Merrett and others have had at half back too, hence the handball handball handball turnover bullshit.

 

[Mikevk123]

None of whom could play the role he was recruited for mind you

Lav could. Think he’s better as the third tall. Structurally I think we look better with two genuine key defenders. McGrath and Ridley can play lockdown if called upon.

 

[Ambrosia]

Do you go to games live? Coz I noticed watching on TV last week that individual players can look really s**t when the camera is closing in on them or only showing the end of the field, but I’ve gone to most games live so far this year and when you’re at the ground there is literally nothing to kick to upfield.

The structure is really all over the place, there are holes where there should be players and players where there should be gaps, and then you’ve got a loose man at the wrong end and one bloke manning up two opponents on the switch.

If your midfield isn’t constantly moving to open a gap in their defence you’re going to struggle to get up the ground. And it’s exactly the same problem that Merrett and others have had at half back too, hence the handball handball handball turnover bullshit.

Yeah I go to games and agree there is a difference watching footy live and TV. I don’t think this is an instance of that.

I don’t think Kelly is to blame for any of Essendon’s major problems. I just don’t think he’s any good and to be fair the alternatives aren’t that compelling either.

 

[ant555]

Not impressed with his acquisition. He’s just another Dodo “paper over the cracks” pick. 3 year deal as well.

Keep in mind the club had Reid, Brand, Zerk-Thatcher, Eyre and Francis all playing VFL over the weekend.

The 2021 draft/trade period is looking pretty grim bar Ben Hobbs.

And three of them are not ready for AFL and two have proven to be short of AFL.

 

[bjisgod9]

Lav could. Think he’s better as the third tall. Structurally I think we look better with two genuine key defenders. McGrath and Ridley can play lockdown if called upon.

Yeah I’d back Laverde to play the same role but sadly we need him to play key back at the moment. Whole reason Kelly was recruited was to release Ridley/Redman even Hind from lockdown roles so they could drop off and intercept and play more aggressive in attack.

 

[fishardansin]

Those who defend Kelly. Why on earth would trade for an elite defensive player to defend Waterman, while Ridley takes Kennedy?

Imagine if we had a good sized defender instead of Kelly. Then that big guy could take Kennedy and Ridley could be third man up while sagging off Waterman.

Let's be clear. If Kelly was one of our best defenders he'd be on Kennedy, Darling or Ryan.

Who is he manning up eth-dog ?

Which elite forwards does this defender, with no offensive drive, keep quiet?

 

[Lore]

Those who defend Kelly. Why on earth would trade for an elite defensive player to defend Waterman, while Ridley takes Kennedy?

Imagine if we had a good sized defender instead of Kelly. Then that big guy could take Kennedy and Ridley could be third man up while sagging off Waterman.

Let's be clear. If Kelly was one of our best defenders he'd be on Kennedy, Darling or Ryan.

Who is he manning up eth-dog ?

Which elite forwards does this defender, with no offensive drive, keep quiet?

Ridley is injured. Ridley is also 5cm taller than Kelly.

We didn't trade for Kelly. He was an unrestricted free agent - Adelaide couldn't match.

We have a fairly big hole in our salary cap, so although I don't think he costs all that much salary wise, it's moot either way.

It's a list spot and someone with a bit of experience and craft who is easily best 22 and is willing to play a team-oriented role unlike the flog that got us Perkins.

He's really not holding anyone out of the side except Garrett McDonagh, who by all accounts isn't up to it anyway.

Upgrade on Gleeson.

 

[frodos gardener]

Those who defend Kelly. Why on earth would trade for an elite defensive player to defend Waterman, while Ridley takes Kennedy?

Imagine if we had a good sized defender instead of Kelly. Then that big guy could take Kennedy and Ridley could be third man up while sagging off Waterman.

Let's be clear. If Kelly was one of our best defenders he'd be on Kennedy, Darling or Ryan.

Who is he manning up eth-dog ?

Which elite forwards does this defender, with no offensive drive, keep quiet?

Playing a good game to back up last week’s effort. Can I ask, out of genuine curiosity, is it the Kennedy and Darling combo that has made you raise this? Because only Kennedy is their tall and the mismatch putting Laverde on Kennedy at times (due to Ridley being off) has exposed that.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

He’s winning it back well but a bit of liability considering the only kick he can take is lateral across defence to a loose man.

 

[fishardansin]

I'm saying that we would be better off playing a taller player to take Kennedy so Laverde stays on number 2. Then Ridley can play as an intercepter. We tried Francis forward while he was kicking arse down back. We have covered that. Play him back ahead of Kelly.

 

[eth-dog]

I'm saying that we would be better off playing a taller player to take Kennedy so Laverde stays on number 2. Then Ridley can play as an intercepter. We tried Francis forward while he was kicking arse down back. We have covered that. Play him back ahead of Kelly.

Kelly is the second best actual defender in our side.

Seriously.

 

[fishardansin]

He’s winning it back well but a bit of liability considering the only kick he can take is lateral across defence to a loose man.

If he's not taking an elite small to free up Hind to run and carry or taking an elite tall to free up Ridley to intercept more, then what is the point of him? He's manning up nobodies and provides no offence. There literally no point to playing him.