Autopsy 2nd Elimination Final, 2023: St.Kilda v GWS *WEBSTER 150TH* *BATTLE 100TH*

[SteeleSaints]

It was a very good season

Not good enough but did not stop trying the whole game

2 midfielders short

Totally agree our midfield has been 3rd rate all year and as a group were severely exposed again today. With the list and injuries we had throughout the year we did well to play finals.

We have the 5th youngest and least experienced side in the comp. People need to ease up on their expectations of where our list is at.

We were never going to be a serious challenger this year, but a lot of the kids were exposed to finals. Now they have a taste, they will improve on todays effort in the coming years.

 

[phantom13]

And he also smashes them around the ground.

Depends what you value more.

Given that so many studies have proven very little correlation between ruck hitouts (even to advantage) and clearances I would probably take a ruck who can win 18 clearances of his own in the last 2 weeks.

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I think up against a c grade ruckman who most couldn’t pick out of a lineup he needed to at least halve the tap contests and beat him around the ground.

He absolutely flogged him around the ground (think he had 30 touches) but got properly torched in the hitouts.

That’s where GWS won the game, with a ruckman most couldn’t pick out of a lineup.

 

[Max the great]

King just has that real lacksidasical thing about him at times. Tried to take two on the chest today only for it to be punched away. Just flat out didn’t chase or pressure a couple of times.

It’s immensely frustrating cause if he got a little more campaigner in him he’d be genuinely unstoppable.

I’ve mentioned it before but he just doesn’t look like he reeeeeeeally wants to be the big key forward. Still young, had interrupted seasons, I want it to come together (and if it does look out) but yeh… not sure.

I absolutely love the bloke but he definitely gets sulky when it goes against him. Plays too much on emotion at times which is frustrating because he is supremely talented.

 

[phantom13]

How I didn't notice? Because it didn't happen. It rained pre game and there was a tiny tiny bit of drizzle at quarter time. That's not 'rain'. The MCG grass would have been moist at most.

Nah, it properly rained at quarter time and into the start of the second.

I actually don’t really think it made a difference. The wet ground screwed us, we were fumbly from wet ground not rain but that doesn’t change the fact that it rained throughout the game.

 

[The Cobra]

I’m not sold yet.
That first shot on goal tonight which I’m pretty sure was his first touch for the game was a pretty *en half arsed effort.
He needs to learn to get into space otherwise he’s gonna be monstered his entire career.
Plenty to work with but a hell of a lot to learn.
Needs an attitude adjustment big time.

Struggling big time with his shoulder so top marks for that.

But don’t like his attitude when things don’t go his way - gotta dig in & be more resilient & just do the business!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Marshall gets exposed in the ruck contests most weeks, he's fantastic around the ground, but his ruck craft is poor. As soon as he comes up against a bigger body, he gets monstered.

Yet he had the same number of hits to advantage as his opponent today.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I think up against a c grade ruckman who most couldn’t pick out of a lineup he needed to at least halve the tap contests and beat him around the ground.

He absolutely flogged him around the ground (think he had 30 touches) but got properly torched in the hitouts.

That’s where GWS won the game, with a ruckman most couldn’t pick out of a lineup.

Well they won 7 hitouts to advantage each. The rest didn't favor any team so I would say that's halving the contest.

And Briggs is not a C grade ruckman he's probably been top 5 in the comp since he came into the GWS team halfway through the year.

 

[phantom13]

Well they won 7 hitouts to advantage each. The rest didn't favor any team so I would say that's halving the contest.

And Briggs is not a C grade ruckman he's probably been top 5 in the comp since he came into the GWS team halfway through the year.

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Yeh, as explained a few times, Briggs got it clear of the contest and cleared the space 4/5 times. Roma had 1.

There’s clearances and clearances and ho to advantage and ho to advantage. Briggs had the later.

Rightio. Top 5 in the comp. So Gawn, English, Roma, Witts, Nank quality is he? Come on.

 

[g_TRAIN]

That doesn’t really paint the entire picture.

Could genuinely count 5 times Briggs ripped it out of the ruck and got first possession.

Roma had a good game as a midfielder but he definitely wasn’t great at the actual ruck craft.

Roma has 9 clearances on his own. He literally took it out of the ruck himself 5 times.

You guys are way too harsh.

If he was a better tap ruck he would be Gawn level.

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[triggering bro]

Hahaha. Oh you are legit serious? Phillipou isn't good? Oh boy. I've heard it all

Yep don’t think he has the tools to be the player we want him to be. Made the call and didn’t attack him personally. What’s the issue and why are you so emotional?

 

[phantom13]

The weird defence of Roma as a ruckman is strange.

Was he good around the ground today, absolutely, 30 touches and a goal. No dispute.

Did he get beaten soundly in the ruck 100% watch the game and watch the quality of the GWS clearances, how easy they walked it out the front of the clearance when they won it.

Nobody is saying he was shit, he just got beaten by a bloke playing his 23rd game.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Yeh, as explained a few times, Briggs got it clear of the contest and cleared the space 4/5 times. Roma had 1.

There’s clearances and clearances and ho to advantage and ho to advantage. Briggs had the later.

Rightio. Top 5 in the comp. So Gawn, English, Roma, Witts, Nank quality is he? Come on.

You might have explained but I disagree with your assessment.

And yes he's been better than Nank.

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[jh38]

Roma has 9 clearances on his own. He literally took it out of the ruck himself 5 times.

You guys are way too harsh.

If he was a better tap ruck he would be Gawn level.

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I love Marshall, but objectively speaking, its a big area of improvement for him.
The midfield needs a big upgrade, but I think Marshall needs to come to the fore with his ruck craft too.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That doesn’t really paint the entire picture.

Could genuinely count 5 times Briggs ripped it out of the ruck and got first possession.

Roma had a good game as a midfielder but he definitely wasn’t great at the actual ruck craft.

Briggs had 4 centre clearances , Marshall had 2.

Here's all the centre clearances.

Briggs 4
Kelly 4
Steele 3
Ross 2
Marshall 2
Green 2
Whitfield 1
Ward 1
Sinclair 1
Owens 1
Greene 1
Cumming 1
Crouch 1
Clark 1

I don't believe it was what cost us the game.

I believe it was our inside 50's that rapidly became their inside 50s.
Was Hawks Sicily all over again.

 

[phantom13]

You might have explained but I disagree with your assessment.

And yes he's been better than Nank.

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Well you listed stats like having the same number of hit outs to advantage and clearances clearly demonstrates that he wasn’t beaten soundly in the ruck. I’m explaining that those stats don’t show the quality of the clearance or hit out to advantage.

Disagree, that’s fine, but the stats you’ve listed don’t prove your point.

 

[Bushy70]

And thus endeth our 150th year. The year of “exploration”.

 

[Saints4ever]

5 minutes to go and Owens is in the centre and gets the clearance and spreads away bombing it into 50.
Would’ve been nice to see more of this.
Was completely wasted up forward today.

 

[Mat Mann]

you're arguing about the BOG for us today, Surely a few others deserve the column inches over their poor performances.

Bivclavs is hailed for doing exactly the same thing Marshall does

 

[phantom13]

Briggs had 4 centre clearances , Marshall had 2.

Here's all the centre clearances.

Briggs 4
Kelly 4
Steele 3
Ross 2
Marshall 2
Green 2
Whitfield 1
Ward 1
Sinclair 1
Owens 1
Greene 1
Cumming 1
Crouch 1
Clark 1

I don't believe it was what cost us the game.

I believe it was our inside 50's that rapidly became their inside 50s.
Was Hawks Sicily all over again.

Lachy Ash ****ing killed us (along with Whitfield) wasn’t quite Sicily though, they didn’t get intercept marks they just smashed us at the ground but honestly, it was both.

The clearance work and goals set the game up and the rebound 50 goals killed us.

 

[tomjoad]

I was on level 1 on the fence and didn't get wet once except for the walk from Richmond station to the ground 15 minutes before the game. Are we making up conditions now?

Man, chill out. You get ratty after a loss... don't take it out on the people who got wet. Lay off the booze, drink some water, eat something that soaks up the angst...and I dunno, go for a walk in the rain.

 

[Plugger35]

I absolutely love the bloke but he definitely gets sulky when it goes against him. Plays too much on emotion at times which is frustrating because he is supremely talented.

He gets those flashes of anger when he gets aggressive and he looks unstoppable but still spends too much time sulking and not engaged.

Nick Riewoldt sulked a bit too but not for long, he spent most of his time playing angry and aggressive and he used to hate getting beaten.

Nick had that killer instinct, Max shows it occasionally but not consistently enough.

 

[saintbill]

Talent and skill gap was immense. Scoreline flattered us.

Keep Gresh, get rid of Clark. Zero chance of making it.

Concerned for next year to be honest. Don't see enough good ball users on the list. Far more likely to regress IMO

 

[g_TRAIN]

Well you listed stats like having the same number of hit outs to advantage and clearances clearly demonstrates that he wasn’t beaten soundly in the ruck. I’m explaining that those stats don’t show the quality of the clearance or hit out to advantage.

Disagree, that’s fine, but the stats you’ve listed don’t prove your point.

My point is more that we expect too much of him to be the perfect player.

Objectively he may have lost the ruck battle from a hitout perspective but he won the overall contest and won it by a margin.



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[Lightsxo]

Not sure how everyone else felt but in my section of the crowd we felt the writing was on the wall at the start of the 2nd and pretty much game over.

Then they went like 7 goals ahead and it was a done deal

 

[Saints4ever]

Starting to really worry about Higgins.
Have always been a Higgins fan but lately he doesn’t crumb he tries to out body and out mark bigger opposition. He doesn’t chase out of defence.
I’m just not sure what he brings atm.
Hope he turns it around next year.