3 Other Questions

[theGav56]

1) Can Harvey coach?
I don't mean it literally, as he obviously can coach, that being his job. But can he coach at the highest level succesfully? Having shifted course, but gone again for an untried senior coach, this is the single biggest question about the immediate and mid term aspirations for the club. While he has been in charge for a limited number of games last season they are virtually meaningless in assessing Harvey's coaching ability, though did give him some valuable "experience" at the helm. But so far there have been some questionable indicators along with whatever positive ones we have seen including;
- the decision to delist the young first year players at the end of last year. They represent a massive investment in talent discarded.
- the decision to dart MJ, and to a lesser extent Bradley (who at least has youth on his side and a potential position to play).
-the decision to keep MacManus on the list when his potential game time must be very limited, especially with the recruitment of MJ.

Some of these points may turn out to be masterstrokes, but at this stage they are fodder for the question; Can Mark Harvey coach?

2) Can our midfield win/loss ration be turned around?
This is the weakest area of our recent past, and the drafting won't have a significant short term benefit. Hasleby is key, and his renewed fitness is welcome, but he does not have a great history of retaining fitness for 22+ rounds. The young speedstars are also a questionable area of improvement with promise shown, but potential yet to be realised. Peake, Ibbotson, Foster, Schammer etc; step up!

While the ruckmen may or may not be better than last year, we have faired little differently depending on whther Sandilands is winning the tap, or Gilmore is boinging around the place, and while it may change the complexion of the gameplan, I believe is less significant than the impact of the midfielders.

But the midfield battle is also an area where I think we have failed to develop a game plan which is a winning one, and our midfield coaching/strategy has been disapponting.

3) Will Farmer fall apart again?
Our forward line has enormous potential and was shackled by the lack of discipline Farmer showed last year. If he has a similar year then we will again have to compromise other players roles to try and compensate, and lose a major and potent weapon.

 

[chook2734]

1) Can Harvey coach?
I don't mean it literally, as he obviously can coach, that being his job. But can he coach at the highest level succesfully? Having shifted course, but gone again for an untried senior coach, this is the single biggest question about the immediate and mid term aspirations for the club. While he has been in charge for a limited number of games last season they are virtually meaningless in assessing Harvey's coaching ability, though did give him some valuable "experience" at the helm. But so far there have been some questionable indicators along with whatever positive ones we have seen including;
- the decision to delist the young first year players at the end of last year. They represent a massive investment in talent discarded.
- the decision to dart MJ, and to a lesser extent Bradley (who at least has youth on his side and a potential position to play).
-the decision to keep MacManus on the list when his potential game time must be very limited, especially with the recruitment of MJ.

Some of these points may turn out to be masterstrokes, but at this stage they are fodder for the question; Can Mark Harvey coach?

Purely speculation of course, but I think the reasons for most of these decisions come down to one thing - attitude. Most people believe that the talent is there, but the mental side of the game is our downfall. Offloading some youngsters who were obviously not up to it, keeping around a club stalwart who has had to fight every step of the way for his career and drafting a guy he probably knows better than anybody all point to Harvs wanting to improve in this area. I think the time that Harvs had as an assistant was important to give him an insight into the strengths/weaknesses of not only the list as a whole, but also individuals. I think regardless of McManus' games tally in '08, he will still have a role to play as a senior player and example of where guts, determination and a whole lot of hard work can take you.

2) Can our midfield win/loss ration be turned around?
This is the weakest area of our recent past, and the drafting won't have a significant short term benefit. Hasleby is key, and his renewed fitness is welcome, but he does not have a great history of retaining fitness for 22+ rounds. The young speedstars are also a questionable area of improvement with promise shown, but potential yet to be realised. Peake, Ibbotson, Foster, Schammer etc; step up!

While the ruckmen may or may not be better than last year, we have faired little differently depending on whther Sandilands is winning the tap, or Gilmore is boinging around the place, and while it may change the complexion of the gameplan, I believe is less significant than the impact of the midfielders.

But the midfield battle is also an area where I think we have failed to develop a game plan which is a winning one, and our midfield coaching/strategy has been disapponting.

This is the key. I think we will be better in the ruck - Sandilands was crippled by injury early on and Warnock will be better for the game time he had and another pre-season. If Hase can keep himself fit, I think we can expect some major improvement from him too. The midfield have matched it with the best on a number of occasions - they are capable, they just need to learn to do it consistently.

3) Will Farmer fall apart again?
Our forward line has enormous potential and was shackled by the lack of discipline Farmer showed last year. If he has a similar year then we will again have to compromise other players roles to try and compensate, and lose a major and potent weapon.

If he screws up again, he's got to go - whether that be round 1 of the pre-season, or the preliminary final. It's up to Wiz what he wants to do with this year - the club have shown faith in him, it's time he returned it. If the worst was to happen though, I'd like to think either Bell or Mark Johnson could potentially step in and kick a few goals to cover.

 

[ImperialPurple]

From a chat with the media last week:

we’ve gone to extreme levels in different ways to find different aspects of the game in how you become fitter.- Harvs

Umm... does someone want to have a crack at translating this into regular English??

 

[Rabbitoh]

1) Can Harvey coach?
I don't mean it literally, as he obviously can coach, that being his job. But can he coach at the highest level succesfully? Having shifted course, but gone again for an untried senior coach, this is the single biggest question about the immediate and mid term aspirations for the club. While he has been in charge for a limited number of games last season they are virtually meaningless in assessing Harvey's coaching ability, though did give him some valuable "experience" at the helm. But so far there have been some questionable indicators along with whatever positive ones we have seen including;
- the decision to delist the young first year players at the end of last year. They represent a massive investment in talent discarded.
- the decision to dart MJ, and to a lesser extent Bradley (who at least has youth on his side and a potential position to play).
-the decision to keep MacManus on the list when his potential game time must be very limited, especially with the recruitment of MJ.

Some of these points may turn out to be masterstrokes, but at this stage they are fodder for the question; Can Mark Harvey coach?

2) Can our midfield win/loss ration be turned around?
This is the weakest area of our recent past, and the drafting won't have a significant short term benefit. Hasleby is key, and his renewed fitness is welcome, but he does not have a great history of retaining fitness for 22+ rounds. The young speedstars are also a questionable area of improvement with promise shown, but potential yet to be realised. Peake, Ibbotson, Foster, Schammer etc; step up!

While the ruckmen may or may not be better than last year, we have faired little differently depending on whther Sandilands is winning the tap, or Gilmore is boinging around the place, and while it may change the complexion of the gameplan, I believe is less significant than the impact of the midfielders.

But the midfield battle is also an area where I think we have failed to develop a game plan which is a winning one, and our midfield coaching/strategy has been disapponting.

3) Will Farmer fall apart again?
Our forward line has enormous potential and was shackled by the lack of discipline Farmer showed last year. If he has a similar year then we will again have to compromise other players roles to try and compensate, and lose a major and potent weapon.

Well I reckon you just about *****ed on everything there, but may have some valid points....COME THE MID SEASON BREAK!.
But until then, the word is Harves is a far harder Taskmaster than Connolly
ever was, and reputations and Egos count for nothing.
As far as drafting Bradley and MJ#2, it was agood move as we have 2 players who can really put some pressure on under performing players.
Although Palmer was our #1 pick, this Hinkley lad is also classy. Throw in Foster, O'Brien and an improving Ibbotson, and I reckon the Midfield will be alot better than previous years.
As far as Macca, have a look at his stats from '07, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. He will fight tooth abd nail to not lose his spot again....
Don't think for a minute Harves will take any crap from the Wizard. Ask Grover , Peake, Haselby, Headland, Solomon and Grover what happens when you break team rules and ***** "Uncle Harves" off.

 

[Roundhouse]

Well I reckon you just about *****ed on everything there, but may have some valid points....COME THE MID SEASON BREAK!.
But until then, the word is Harves is a far harder Taskmaster than Connolly
ever was, and reputations and Egos count for nothing.
As far as drafting Bradley and MJ#2, it was agood move as we have 2 players who can really put some pressure on under performing players.
Although Palmer was our #1 pick, this Hinkley lad is also classy. Throw in Foster, O'Brien and an improving Ibbotson, and I reckon the Midfield will be alot better than previous years.
As far as Macca, have a look at his stats from '07, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. He will fight tooth abd nail to not lose his spot again....
Don't think for a minute Harves will take any crap from the Wizard. Ask Grover , Peake, Haselby, Headland, Solomon and Grover what happens when you break team rules and ***** "Uncle Harves" off.

The reputation of Peter Bell obviously counts for something.

Also, Harvey played Farmer the week after his last indiscretion, when he had supposedly already used up his last chance.

If you chiding Gav for asking questions of Harvey prior the mid-season break, you should probably hold off on answering them.

I'm all for Harvey, but as Gav pointed out he hasn't acheived anything so far at Freo and all the tough talk surrounding has yet to be truly tested.

 

[Rabbitoh]

The reputation of Peter Bell obviously counts for something.

Also, Harvey played Farmer the week after his last indiscretion, when he had supposedly already used up his last chance.

If you chiding Gav for asking questions of Harvey prior the mid-season break, you should probably hold off on answering them.

I'm all for Harvey, but as Gav pointed out he hasn't acheived anything so far at Freo and all the tough talk surrounding has yet to be truly tested.

All though not a big fan of P*issing on the team or the coach pre-season, I did say Gav had valid points, but the Mid season break is a good time to really start criticising the coach and his staff.
Farmer had used up his last chance under the Connolly regime, and although Wizard did play, it was under Harves terms. Keeping in mind we were "mathematical" in Round 22, Harves had no hesitaion dumping several high profile "egos" to send a message for '08. That message has sunk in with Des and Wiz swearing off "The Sauce".
I'm not "chiding" Gav, I just think his concerns are premature. This is the first time in Freo's history that we have employed a proven , hard, premiership class player as a coach..... Don't tell me Neesham, Drum or Connolly were in the same league as Mark Harvey in their playing days.
Connolly was a fantastic person , who did a wonderful job with a club who were...... well, face it....crap. Unfortunately he didn't play the game long enough, or for a premiership winning team to understand what it takes to get talent over the line.

 

[Chris who]

All though not a big fan of P*issing on the team or the coach pre-season, I did say Gav had valid points, but the Mid season break is a good time to really start criticising the coach and his staff.
Farmer had used up his last chance under the Connolly regime, and although Wizard did play, it was under Harves terms. Keeping in mind we were "mathematical" in Round 22, Harves had no hesitaion dumping several high profile "egos" to send a message for '08. That message has sunk in with Des and Wiz swearing off "The Sauce".
I'm not "chiding" Gav, I just think his concerns are premature. This is the first time in Freo's history that we have employed a proven , hard, premiership class player as a coach..... Don't tell me neesham, Drum or Connolly were in the same league as Mark Harvey in their playing days.
Connolly was a fantastic person , who did a wonderful job with a club who were...... well, face it....crap. Unfortunately he didn't play the game long enough, or for a premiership winning team to understand what it takes to get talent over the line.

As both player and coach, Gerard Neesham was one of West Australian football's most noteworthy recent identities. As a player, he was hard working, tenacious, and possessed of an insatiable, contagious will to win. That same winning mentality was evident in his coaching, which was also characterised by a uniquely imaginative, enterprising approach, a willingness to take risks, and an ability to subvert expectations and turn apparently inimical circumstances to his own, and his team's, advantage.
Neesham commenced his league football career with East Fremantle in 1975, and despite apparently lacking in pace quickly proved himself a damaging player thanks to his ability to win the hard ball coupled with a capacity for finding or making space for himself. Once in possession, he tended to use the ball well, either by hand, or with crisp, short, accurate kicks. When Old Easts lost calamitously to Perth in the 1977 grand final, Gerard Neesham was one of just a handful of members of the losing side able to hold his head high afterwards having given a determinedly aggressive four quarter performance. Two years later East Fremantle went top, but after 45 games for the club in four seasons Neesham had transferred to Swan Districts, where he would produce the best and most consistent football of his career, exemplified by consecutive Swan Medal wins in 1980 and 1981, and 3rd and 4th place finishes in the Sandover Medal voting in 1979 and 1981 respectively. He also represented Western Australia 3 times during this period. In 1982 he interrupted his WAFL career by spending a season with VFL club Swans (formerly known as South Melbourne, and soon to be renamed Sydney). In what was probably the biggest disappointment of his time as a player, he failed to do himself justice, managing just 9 senior games for the year.
Resuming with Swan Districts in 1983 Neesham quickly put his VFL frustrations behind him by helping the club to successive premierships at the expense of Claremont and East Fremantle. Neesham clearly approached the grand final clash with his former club, East Fremantle, with particular relish, and produced a near best afield performance. This was more than a little ironic given that it would be his last ever game in a Swan Districts jumper. In 1985, after 97 games in five seasons with Swans, he returned for a second stint with his original club, East Fremantle, where he would add another 34 games in two years, highlighted by an extremely creditable performance in the 1985 grand final defeat of Subiaco.
Gerard Neesham might well have stayed at East Fremantle for longer, but he had coaching ambitions, which Claremont offered him the chance to pursue. To say that this was an inspired move on the part of the Claremont committee would be putting it mildly, for over the course of an eight and a half season stint with the club Neesham would prove himself the most successful, and by popular consent the greatest, coach in the club's history. From 1987 to 1989 he occupied the role of playing coach, although he played less as time went on. In his debut season as coach the West Australian football landscape had undergone the most seismic shift in its history following the formation of the West Coast Eagles, a club touted by some as the salvation of the game in the west, and regarded by others as a major nail in its coffin. As far as the WAFL competition was concerned, the impact of the Eagles would be almost wholly inimical. Matches would be played in front of reduced crowds, media coverage would be much diminished, and, given that approaching forty of the league's best players would be siphoned off by the VFL newcomer, the overall standard of play would also undergo a decline.
Had it not been for Gerard Neesham, things might have been even worse. With Neesham as architect, Claremont developed an innovative style of play that, as with many truly great or revolutionary ideas, seemed beguilingly simple - so simple, in fact, that it was hard to believe no-one had thought of it before. Eventually christened 'chip and draw', it was a style which would garner fascination, scorn, incredulity and admiration in more or less equal measure for more than a decade. With the Tigers, it succeeded, partly because it took opposing teams by surprise, and partly because the club was blessed with a proliferation of the right type of players to implement it effectively. Central to 'chip and draw', its rule of thumb if you like, is the principle that possession is nine-tenths of the law. A team in possession is a team in control. Neesham's players were therefore under strict instructions to retain possession of the ball until such time as they could dispose of it accurately, either by passing it to a team mate, or by scoring. A player in possession of the ball could run with it or pass it in any direction, as long as possession was maintained. In sports like soccer, basketball and - most significantly of all in Neesham's case - water polo (see footnote 1), such a tenet was so obvious it was almost taken for granted, but such had not, historically, always been the case in Australia football, where movement of the ball towards goal tended to be the paramount objective.
Gerard Neesham's water polo tactics took the WAFL by storm. In 1987, the Tigers achieved greater dominance of the competition than any team since East Fremantle's unbeaten premiership side of 1946. At times they appeared to be light years ahead of the opposition in terms of inventiveness, tactical acumen and skill, but in the brave new era of football that was emerging, such prowess was costly. In 1988 it would be a significantly weakened Claremont that would mount its quest for back to back flags, with VFL clubs having deprived it of half a dozen of its premiership stars.
Under Neesham, this sequence of events would play out four times in quick succession, as Claremont won the premierships of 1987, 1989, 1991 and 1993, each time with a different nucleus of key players. Rarely, if ever, can a team in one of Australia's leading state leagues have displayed such resilience and recovery power.
Midway through the 1994 season, Gerard Neesham was appointed coach of Western Australia's second AFL club, Fremantle, which was to commence its involvement in the competition the following year. Utilising the same 'chip and draw' tactics that had proved so successful at WAFL level Neesham ensured the Dockers were competitive from the start, but they lacked sufficient players of real quality to mount a legitimate premiership challenge. Moreover, as time went on, opposing teams got much better at countering Freo's idiosyncratic style, and in Neesham's fourth and final season the team slumped to 15th, its lowest finishing position up to that time. Arguably, then, if ever a coach came in with a bang and went out with a whimper, it was Gerard Neesham, but the bang was a truly spectacular one, and it is for that that he deserves to be remembered.

Mark Harvey was a tough, canny and courageous centre half back from East Keilor who had the good fortune to play in Essendon premiership teams in his first two seasons in the VFL. His 1985 season was especially memorable as, in addition to contributing to the Bombers' grand final annihilation of Hawthorn, he made his Victorian interstate debut and was selected in the All Australian team. Harvey played some of his best football during the early 1990s, winning a club best and fairest award in 1992, and achieving AFL All Australian selection whilst making a telling contribution to a flag win the following year. In all, he played 206 games and kicked 170 goals, with his durability being all the more remarkable in light of the fact that he sustained at least a dozen serious injuries during his career, a legacy of his immense courage and wholehearted commitment to the team cause.

Neesham was a hard player and a proven performer as a player playing grand finals and as a coach coaching Grand Finals. His gameplan and player stocks wernt up to AFL level

 

[chook2734]

Neesham was a hard player and a proven performer as a player playing grand finals and as a coach coaching Grand Finals. His gameplan and player stocks wernt up to AFL level

I don't agree with this. Sure, the players weren't up to scratch, but I think if you go back to the Neesham days, you will see there were a lot of innovations that he brought to the game. He was definitely ahead of his time.

 

[Sailor]

Can Harvey coach?
Can supporters support?

Let's all behind Hatves (not with knives drawn) and give the players, coaches and administrators our total support.
Too often we are critical of anything and everything that we, who generally have no idea what is really happening, think is not to our liking.
How often has our coach been criticised because he is a Victorian - gasp, horror. I would happily take Matthews but, well, he's a Victorian. I will happily take a win no matter who coaches.
How often do we find that someone is the target of the week. Walker, Macca, jeez did either ever give less than his best.
In truth they have been more loyal than many supporters who don't turn up because it's wet, the team might lose, something else is on...
Less criticism and more support sez he.

It is time for all of us to unite as one force.
Accept we will not win every game, so give of our best everytime to encourage the team to give of their best everytime, take the bad moments so we can enjoy the good and start booking for the MCG in Septemeber.

 

[Chris who]

I don't agree with this. Sure, the players weren't up to scratch, but I think if you go back to the Neesham days, you will see there were a lot of innovations that he brought to the game. He was definitely ahead of his time.

Granted, maybe its better to say his players wernt up to his gameplan

 

[estibador]

we’ve gone to extreme levels in different ways to find different aspects of the game in how you become fitter.- Harvs

Umm... does someone want to have a crack at translating this into regular English??

I think it's on page 37 of Sheeds' little red book.

 

[Rabbitoh]

As both player and coach, Gerard Neesham was one of West Australian football's most noteworthy recent identities. As a player, he was hard working, tenacious, and possessed of an insatiable, contagious will to win. That same winning mentality was evident in his coaching, which was also characterised by a uniquely imaginative, enterprising approach, a willingness to take risks, and an ability to subvert expectations and turn apparently inimical circumstances to his own, and his team's, advantage.
Neesham commenced his league football career with East Fremantle in 1975, and despite apparently lacking in pace quickly proved himself a damaging player thanks to his ability to win the hard ball coupled with a capacity for finding or making space for himself. Once in possession, he tended to use the ball well, either by hand, or with crisp, short, accurate kicks. When Old Easts lost calamitously to Perth in the 1977 grand final, Gerard Neesham was one of just a handful of members of the losing side able to hold his head high afterwards having given a determinedly aggressive four quarter performance. Two years later East Fremantle went top, but after 45 games for the club in four seasons Neesham had transferred to Swan Districts, where he would produce the best and most consistent football of his career, exemplified by consecutive Swan Medal wins in 1980 and 1981, and 3rd and 4th place finishes in the Sandover Medal voting in 1979 and 1981 respectively. He also represented Western Australia 3 times during this period. In 1982 he interrupted his WAFL career by spending a season with VFL club Swans (formerly known as South Melbourne, and soon to be renamed Sydney). In what was probably the biggest disappointment of his time as a player, he failed to do himself justice, managing just 9 senior games for the year.
Resuming with Swan Districts in 1983 Neesham quickly put his VFL frustrations behind him by helping the club to successive premierships at the expense of Claremont and East Fremantle. Neesham clearly approached the grand final clash with his former club, East Fremantle, with particular relish, and produced a near best afield performance. This was more than a little ironic given that it would be his last ever game in a Swan Districts jumper. In 1985, after 97 games in five seasons with Swans, he returned for a second stint with his original club, East Fremantle, where he would add another 34 games in two years, highlighted by an extremely creditable performance in the 1985 grand final defeat of Subiaco.
Gerard Neesham might well have stayed at East Fremantle for longer, but he had coaching ambitions, which Claremont offered him the chance to pursue. To say that this was an inspired move on the part of the Claremont committee would be putting it mildly, for over the course of an eight and a half season stint with the club Neesham would prove himself the most successful, and by popular consent the greatest, coach in the club's history. From 1987 to 1989 he occupied the role of playing coach, although he played less as time went on. In his debut season as coach the West Australian football landscape had undergone the most seismic shift in its history following the formation of the West Coast Eagles, a club touted by some as the salvation of the game in the west, and regarded by others as a major nail in its coffin. As far as the WAFL competition was concerned, the impact of the Eagles would be almost wholly inimical. Matches would be played in front of reduced crowds, media coverage would be much diminished, and, given that approaching forty of the league's best players would be siphoned off by the VFL newcomer, the overall standard of play would also undergo a decline.
Had it not been for Gerard Neesham, things might have been even worse. With Neesham as architect, Claremont developed an innovative style of play that, as with many truly great or revolutionary ideas, seemed beguilingly simple - so simple, in fact, that it was hard to believe no-one had thought of it before. Eventually christened 'chip and draw', it was a style which would garner fascination, scorn, incredulity and admiration in more or less equal measure for more than a decade. With the Tigers, it succeeded, partly because it took opposing teams by surprise, and partly because the club was blessed with a proliferation of the right type of players to implement it effectively. Central to 'chip and draw', its rule of thumb if you like, is the principle that possession is nine-tenths of the law. A team in possession is a team in control. Neesham's players were therefore under strict instructions to retain possession of the ball until such time as they could dispose of it accurately, either by passing it to a team mate, or by scoring. A player in possession of the ball could run with it or pass it in any direction, as long as possession was maintained. In sports like soccer, basketball and - most significantly of all in Neesham's case - water polo (see footnote 1), such a tenet was so obvious it was almost taken for granted, but such had not, historically, always been the case in Australia football, where movement of the ball towards goal tended to be the paramount objective.
Gerard Neesham's water polo tactics took the WAFL by storm. In 1987, the Tigers achieved greater dominance of the competition than any team since East Fremantle's unbeaten premiership side of 1946. At times they appeared to be light years ahead of the opposition in terms of inventiveness, tactical acumen and skill, but in the brave new era of football that was emerging, such prowess was costly. In 1988 it would be a significantly weakened Claremont that would mount its quest for back to back flags, with VFL clubs having deprived it of half a dozen of its premiership stars.
Under Neesham, this sequence of events would play out four times in quick succession, as Claremont won the premierships of 1987, 1989, 1991 and 1993, each time with a different nucleus of key players. Rarely, if ever, can a team in one of Australia's leading state leagues have displayed such resilience and recovery power.
Midway through the 1994 season, Gerard Neesham was appointed coach of Western Australia's second AFL club, Fremantle, which was to commence its involvement in the competition the following year. Utilising the same 'chip and draw' tactics that had proved so successful at WAFL level Neesham ensured the Dockers were competitive from the start, but they lacked sufficient players of real quality to mount a legitimate premiership challenge. Moreover, as time went on, opposing teams got much better at countering Freo's idiosyncratic style, and in Neesham's fourth and final season the team slumped to 15th, its lowest finishing position up to that time. Arguably, then, if ever a coach came in with a bang and went out with a whimper, it was Gerard Neesham, but the bang was a truly spectacular one, and it is for that that he deserves to be remembered.

Mark Harvey was a tough, canny and courageous centre half back from East Keilor who had the good fortune to play in Essendon premiership teams in his first two seasons in the VFL. His 1985 season was especially memorable as, in addition to contributing to the Bombers' grand final annihilation of Hawthorn, he made his Victorian interstate debut and was selected in the All Australian team. Harvey played some of his best football during the early 1990s, winning a club best and fairest award in 1992, and achieving AFL All Australian selection whilst making a telling contribution to a flag win the following year. In all, he played 206 games and kicked 170 goals, with his durability being all the more remarkable in light of the fact that he sustained at least a dozen serious injuries during his career, a legacy of his immense courage and wholehearted commitment to the team cause.

Neesham was a hard player and a proven performer as a player playing grand finals and as a coach coaching Grand Finals. His gameplan and player stocks wernt up to AFL level

And your point is....??
neesham was great ......at WAFL/State level. His coaching at AFL level was at best...ordinary.

 

[dominguez]

Obviously it's a different sport, but David Beckham said on Parkinson last night that he has been scared of every succesful manager that he has played under which has got the best out of him.

For the first time in our history we have a coach that isn't going to take any shit, which isn't a guarantee of success but certainly a step in the right direction.

 

[Cheetah]

From a chat with the media last week:




Umm... does someone want to have a crack at translating this into regular English??

It translates to "Man, where doing shit now that I hadn't ever seen or heard of when I was playing, but we're heaps fitter".

 

[Chris who]

All though not a big fan of P*issing on the team or the coach pre-season, I did say Gav had valid points, but the Mid season break is a good time to really start criticising the coach and his staff.
Farmer had used up his last chance under the Connolly regime, and although Wizard did play, it was under Harves terms. Keeping in mind we were "mathematical" in Round 22, Harves had no hesitaion dumping several high profile "egos" to send a message for '08. That message has sunk in with Des and Wiz swearing off "The Sauce".
I'm not "chiding" Gav, I just think his concerns are premature. This is the first time in Freo's history that we have employed a proven , hard, premiership class player as a coach..... Don't tell me Neesham, Drum or Connolly were in the same league as Mark Harvey in their playing days.
Connolly was a fantastic person , who did a wonderful job with a club who were...... well, face it....crap. Unfortunately he didn't play the game long enough, or for a premiership winning team to understand what it takes to get talent over the line.

just clarifying that you were talking about playing level not coaching level and the fact there was no AFL when neesham was playing and as a player neesham would probably be rated higher than harvey

 

[Rob]

And your point is....??
neesham was great ......at WAFL/State level. His coaching at AFL level was at best...ordinary.

I dunno about that - there are aspects to his coaching style that have been successfully employed by AFL coaches today.
Neesham's problem IMO was simply lack of cattle - which I suppose is his fault given he recruited them.

 

[dominguez]

Neesham's problem IMO was simply lack of cattle - which I suppose is his fault given he recruited them.

That was the problem IMO. His tactics were good, but at the end of '98 we still had a very poor list.

There were far too many experienced players recruited between 95 and 02 when the focus should have been on youth. Hawthorn have set themselves up for a very exciting 6/7 years by focussing solely on the draft when they were down the bottom.

 

[The Night Shift]

That was the problem IMO. His tactics were good, but at the end of '98 we still had a very poor list.

There were far too many experienced players recruited between 95 and 02 when the focus should have been on youth.Hawthorn have set themselves up for a very exciting 6/7 years by focussing solely on the draft when they were down the bottom.

Maybe Dom, but maybe not. Nothing is written in stone.

 

[Ripper]

I dunno about that - there are aspects to his coaching style that have been successfully employed by AFL coaches today.
Neesham's problem IMO was simply lack of cattle - which I suppose is his fault given he recruited them.

He was up against it after the initial 1994 squad as the following drafts were thin because;

i.) The best 7 16 yo's (who would have gone high in 1995) were already drafted in 1994 because of the compensation pick rort .

ii.) Port "hid" a large number of their startup squad who did not nominate for the draft in 1995 .
They were fined $50k for "draft tampering".

The best 16 yo in 1995 was drafted due to the compensation pick rort making him unavailable in 1996
Cousins inexplicably was available to WC in 1995.

iii.) Port selected their start up squad in 1996 weakening that draft as well.

So 1995 and 1996 were "thin" when Gerard needed and in normal years could have expected to pick up a few more quality players.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=1996&t=D&s=P

 

[theGav56]

Well I reckon you just about *****ed on everything there, but may have some valid points....COME THE MID SEASON BREAK!..

Just a point of clarification, I support the selection of Harvey as coach, and like what I have seen, but with any rookie coach it is the fundamental question; Can they actually coach? Same with the other questions. The midfield may work a beauty, the delisting/selctions may be works of true genius, and Farmer may be unstoppable. But for now, they the big questions for me going into the season.

 

[dominguez]

Maybe Dom, but maybe not. Nothing is written in stone.

I'm certainly not guaranteeing a swag of premierships, but they have a very exciting list going forward.

 

[Underdog]

And your point is....??
neesham was great ......at WAFL/State level. His coaching at AFL level was at best...ordinary.

What proof have you got that Harvey will be any different?

That is what people are trying to work out

 

[sabre_ac]

1) Can Harvey coach?
I don't mean it literally, as he obviously can coach, that being his job. But can he coach at the highest level succesfully? Having shifted course, but gone again for an untried senior coach, this is the single biggest question about the immediate and mid term aspirations for the club. While he has been in charge for a limited number of games last season they are virtually meaningless in assessing Harvey's coaching ability, though did give him some valuable "experience" at the helm. But so far there have been some questionable indicators along with whatever positive ones we have seen including;
- the decision to delist the young first year players at the end of last year. They represent a massive investment in talent discarded.
- the decision to dart MJ, and to a lesser extent Bradley (who at least has youth on his side and a potential position to play).
-the decision to keep MacManus on the list when his potential game time must be very limited, especially with the recruitment of MJ.

Some of these points may turn out to be masterstrokes, but at this stage they are fodder for the question; Can Mark Harvey coach?

Far to early to comment on his coaching ability, however his willingness to make the hard decisions has impressed me.

The guy much like Conolly is going for the flag in the next few years without coughing up high draft picks. I don't have a problem with his drafting and trust his judgement regarding the delisting of the players he did.

If he shows no mercy when it comes to indescretions on the field as well, then he ticks all the box's for my initial want in a coach.

2) Can our midfield win/loss ration be turned around?
This is the weakest area of our recent past, and the drafting won't have a significant short term benefit. Hasleby is key, and his renewed fitness is welcome, but he does not have a great history of retaining fitness for 22+ rounds. The young speedstars are also a questionable area of improvement with promise shown, but potential yet to be realised. Peake, Ibbotson, Foster, Schammer etc; step up!

While the ruckmen may or may not be better than last year, we have faired little differently depending on whther Sandilands is winning the tap, or Gilmore is boinging around the place, and while it may change the complexion of the gameplan, I believe is less significant than the impact of the midfielders.

But the midfield battle is also an area where I think we have failed to develop a game plan which is a winning one, and our midfield coaching/strategy has been disapponting.

Honestly I think our midfield will improve to middle of the field (from one of the worst).

Peak and Schammer will become consistent players (without being stars) and Headland / Haselby will continue at around of 80% of the best we have seen of them.

Nothing can be expected of Palmer obviously.

Drum and Mundy shape up as the wildcards, if they can cement some consistencey and good games who knows.

Sandilands IMHO is the biggest key, if he stay's fit (Hopefully this coach will manage him better) and can step up to one of the best ruckmen in the comp (Which we all expect of him) then I think we will start breaking even a hell of allot more.

.

3) Will Farmer fall apart again?
Our forward line has enormous potential and was shackled by the lack of discipline Farmer showed last year. If he has a similar year then we will again have to compromise other players roles to try and compensate, and lose a major and potent weapon.

Farmer back to his best, probably the second last year of him at his best. Though I expect him to recapture the title of the best small forward.

 

[Rabbitoh]

What proof have you got that Harvey will be any different?

That is what people are trying to work out

Why is Harves different/be a good coach?

1. 10 years under Sheeds [Well not literally "under him", that would be a bit awkward] and time under Connolly at AFL level, is a top Apprenticeship on what to do and not what to do. Neesham came from the shelter of the local WAFL
2. A hard and respected player at VFL/AFL level,
3. A disciplined attitude towards playing and what is expected of players [ see recent examples on other threads]
4.A good finish to '07 after a rather large shake-up to the club,
5. Doesn't coach through the media[ Has gone on record saying so]
6. Players respond to him [ if you care to drag your blue and yellow arse down to Freo to watch a training you'd see it ]and that's important, players who play for their coach, generally play for each other as well and not 'emselves, a key ingredient for success,
7.Loyal to Connolly while everyone had the knives out [Loyalty says alot about someones general character and ability]............and I spose the one thing that always sh*t me about Neesham was his arrogance and pig-headedness. Glowing examples were to a lesser extent, letting Peter Bell go, and on a larger scale, his stupid attitude when we could have had Andrew McLeod.
Yeah yeah, Gerard's coaching tactics were ahead of their time blah blah, but they didn't work at the time, and did Gerard change tact......

 

[chook2734]

Why is Harves different/be a good coach?

1. 10 years under Sheeds [Well not literally "under him", that would be a bit awkward] and time under Connolly at AFL level, is a top Apprenticeship on what to do and not what to do. Neesham came from the shelter of the local WAFL
2. A hard and respected player at VFL/AFL level,
3. A disciplined attitude towards playing and what is expected of players [ see recent examples on other threads]
4.A good finish to '07 after a rather large shake-up to the club,
5. Doesn't coach through the media[ Has gone on record saying so]
6. Players respond to him [ if you care to drag your blue and yellow arse down to Freo to watch a training you'd see it ]and that's important, players who play for their coach, generally play for each other as well and not 'emselves, a key ingredient for success,
7.Loyal to Connolly while everyone had the knives out [Loyalty says alot about someones general character and ability]............and I spose the one thing that always sh*t me about Neesham was his arrogance and pig-headedness. Glowing examples were to a lesser extent, letting Peter Bell go, and on a larger scale, his stupid attitude when we could have had Andrew McLeod.
Yeah yeah, Gerard's coaching tactics were ahead of their time blah blah, but they didn't work at the time, and did Gerard change tact......

These two stick out in my mind - whether the various rumours over the years have been true or not, there is no denying that the players DO respond to Harvey in a way I'm not sure we've seen before at Freo. The discipline thing is definitely more public - hopefully it applies on-field as well and leads to a bit more consistency