Player Watch #38 Noah Cumberland - Delisted

[Grrr]

Disagree with this as his talent is too good for him to only have 2-5 kicks for a game, regardless of his defensive efforts.

For mine he should be aiming, at averaging the following across a season:

Disposals - 17
Disposal efficiency - 69.6%
Kicking efficiency - 61.8%
I50s - 3
Contested possessions - 45%
Uncontested Possessions - 55%
Ground Ball Gets - 5.4
Clearances - 2
Marks - 5 with 1 contested, 1 I50 & 1 on the lead
Scoring - 1.3 goals with 5.8 score involvements
Defensive Work - 3.9 tackles & 16 pressure acts

This is what Issac Heeney averages for his career at 27 years of age

Now people might look at this and think it's unrealistic however here are Noahs current career averages at just 22:
Disposals - 9
Disposal efficiency - 57%
Kicking efficiency - 48.9%
I50s - 1.9
Contested Possessions - 53%
Uncontested Possessions - 47%
Ground Ball Gets - 2.9
Clearances - 0.5
Marks - 2 with 0.5 contested, 1.1 I50 & 0.7 on the lead
Scoring - 1.7 with 5.1 score involvements
Defensive Work - 2.4 with 11.6 pressure acts.

As you can see in some areas Noah is right around the mark that Heeney puts up, but then there are those he falls short in and those areas all come down to one thing work ethic and Noah has time on his side to work on this and reach his full potential.

The difference being that Heeney's has been ultra consistent since his first year, his numbers haven't really changed much, which sort of goes to show how playing that mid sized deep forward is a really hard gig.

I have always thought the comparison between Heeney and Cumberland is a good one. Very similar in many ways athletically, Cumbo a bit quicker, but similar size and build and playing position. Difference is Heeney always had great footy IQ, top 5 pick and could have gone lower but for the Swans Academy, and Cumbo doesn't, hence he goes missing.

I think a lot also has to do with what is going on inside their heads. Heeney was born a pro, Cumberland wears his heart on his sleeve. Jack Riewoldt and Richo were much the same so it is not always a negative, but he doesn't have their football smarts. So he has to learn them in the VFL. I hope they give him a 4 week spell where he can just play footy and enjoy himself without the pressure of waiting around for his name to be called on a Thursday night.

 

[_RT_]

I think he just needs to do what the team's game plan requires him to do, and not think of how many kicks he gets or whatever. Noah is probably frustrated with himself. He grew up playing in a pretty rustic style of footy where he mainly just had to see the ball and try to get it, then use it to advantage. This does not seem to have set him up well for the mentality required by an AFL player. He just needs to develop all the team first instincts, like never peeling out of a contest to receive before the ball is won, providing blocks, screens shepherds and leads to help other forwards. We have all seen what he can do on the scoreboard when he doesn't do all these things. The club seems to really rate him talent wise. He just has to learn the right way to play for the team, and who cares if that ends up at Dusty stats, Heeney stats, Neal-Bullen stats or Castagna stats. Please, just not Rohan stats.

The difference being that Heeney's has been ultra consistent since his first year, his numbers haven't really changed much, which sort of goes to show how playing that mid sized deep forward is a really hard gig.

I have always thought the comparison between Heeney and Cumberland is a good one. Very similar in many ways athletically, Cumbo a bit quicker, but similar size and build and playing position. Difference is Heeney always had great footy IQ, top 5 pick and could have gone lower but for the Swans Academy, and Cumbo doesn't, hence he goes missing.

I think a lot also has to do with what is going on inside their heads. Heeney was born a pro, Cumberland wears his heart on his sleeve. Jack Riewoldt and Richo were much the same so it is not always a negative, but he doesn't have their football smarts. So he has to learn them in the VFL. I hope they give him a 4 week spell where he can just play footy and enjoy himself without the pressure of waiting around for his name to be called on a Thursday night.

I get what you are both saying, however I think having goals to aim at might just help Noah achieve what is being asked of him.

If he is remaining involved defensively, eg. chasing, harassing & tackling, what he'll likely find happening is he'll get those extra half dozen touches and a couple of extra tackles/pressure acts, plus extra I50s/ score involvements.

All of this comes back to work rate and how hard he is willing to work when not in possession/chance of possession.

 

[Grrr]

I get what you are both saying, however I think having goals to aim at might just help Noah achieve what is being asked of him.

If he is remaining involved defensively, eg. chasing, harassing & tackling, what he'll likely find happening is he'll get those extra half dozen touches and a couple of extra tackles/pressure acts, plus extra I50s/ score involvements.

All of this comes back to work rate and how hard he is willing to work when not in possession/chance of possession.

My problem he is not Mansell, he is an attacking weapon and should be used as such. When he is on, he tackles and harasses as hard as anyone. A good half of his goals last year came from attacking the contest and the man and forcing a spillage.

The problem this year is that our forward line is either slow, Jack, Cotch, Ryan or almost totally attack, Bolton and Martin. Cumberland is like the latter two, and how many of those can you play, especially to Hardwick's game plan.

So he needs to join the forward line as a more rounded player and get up and down the ground ala Lambert did or Graham does. He is not going to learn that playing at the highest level because at the moment he is a fair way off that. Hence he needs a good month playing mid/forward in the VFL to get his confidence up, just like they have done with Dow, who if they bring him in this week, will come in with some really good in the clinches footy behind him.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

It's always an interesting situation for a potential young player

And what stage do they have to fit the Game Plan vs they are good enough for the Game Plan to fit them

 

[TigerImposter]

He is in my best 22. Its all up the the coaching staff on how they handle him and upto hom to find confifence

No this is wrong as it's up to him as the coaching staff have already told him what they expect from him. When he's beaten he needs to work harder so the defenders just don't waltz away from him. He gives up too easily when he doesn't have the ball. He needs to up his pressure acts and make tackles stick. He missed a tackle in the last quarter of vfl game and had he held it up it could have resulted us getting a score from the stoppage. If i recall the game was a drawn one.

 

[TigerImposter]

I don't want to be hard on the kid, but this is now his fourth year on the list and he still hasn't worked out our style of play and what the coaches expect from him. I want to compare him to Mansell who's probably taken his spot . Cumberland would have more skills and talent in his big toe than Mansell, but if you measured their attitude, ticker and discipline it would be the other way round. Mansell gets games bc he does everything the coaches ask from him and won't be allowed to be bullied by anyone as well as allow his teammates to be bullied. His attack on Stewart was inspirational and lifted the boys Friday night and he was complimented by his teammates for it. That's how you earn respect and build your confidence by playing for your coaches, teammates and wearing the jumper with pride. Mansell will always keep him out of the side if Noah can't learn to do these basic team things.

 

[Livonski]

I don't want to be hard on the kid, but this is now his fourth year on the list and he still hasn't worked out our style of play and what the coaches expect from him. I want to compare him to Mansell who's probably taken his spot . Cumberland would have more skills and talent in his big toe than Mansell, but if you measured their attitude, ticker and discipline it would be the other way round. Mansell gets games bc he does everything the coaches ask from him and won't allowed to be bullied by anyone as well as allow his teammates to be bullied. His attack on Stewart was inspirational and lifted the boys that night and he was complimented by his teammates for it. That's how you earn respect and build your confidence by playing for your coaches, teammates and wearing the jumper with pride. Mansell will always keep him out of the side if Noah can't learn to do these basic team things.

Nailed it.
Mansell does exactly what's required, right place, right time...every time. Most of it is unrecognised from our side of the fence, but it's incredibly important.
I hope Cumbo can catch on because he's got plenty of attacking attributes as you point out.

 

[tony__montana]

Interesting that ginivan from Collingwood hardly touches the ball each week, often by 3/4 he’s had 2-3 touches for the game and is usually under 10 most weeks. He is a very smart player, has an innate goal sense but is also slow as a wet week and doesn’t get involved in the play very much but he is seen as a Demi god by the pies and their supporters, whereas poor ol cumbo is the talk of the town amongst Richmond supporters about whether his attitude is right or whether he works hard.

Interesting comparison from 2 mercurial players who, whilst they have different physical characteristics(cumbo a lot more explosive and dynamic) they both in essence do the same role, kick goals and have limited disposals. One is celebrated the other is having his game picked apart and put together. Fascinated to see the end result comparison in a few years.

 

[acr2751]

maybe he is just not as good as some think

 

[_RT_]

My problem he is not Mansell, he is an attacking weapon and should be used as such. When he is on, he tackles and harasses as hard as anyone. A good half of his goals last year came from attacking the contest and the man and forcing a spillage.

The problem this year is that our forward line is either slow, Jack, Cotch, Ryan or almost totally attack, Bolton and Martin. Cumberland is like the latter two, and how many of those can you play, especially to Hardwick's game plan.

So he needs to join the forward line as a more rounded player and get up and down the ground ala Lambert did or Graham does. He is not going to learn that playing at the highest level because at the moment he is a fair way off that. Hence he needs a good month playing mid/forward in the VFL to get his confidence up, just like they have done with Dow, who if they bring him in this week, will come in with some really good in the clinches footy behind him.

Looks like we pretty much agree with how Noah should be played/playing. The last couple of weeks in the AFL side he wasn't playing like that for whatever reason. I'm glad they sent him back to the VFL and I'm glad that reports suggested he didn't drop his head and sulk, but instead he brought in to what Morris and most likely Hardwick wanted to see him do and got some rewards for that. Now he needs to do those required things again, or better that effort, Saturday afternoon against the Bombers on the MCG in the VFL game, then follow it up against the Giants a fortnight later then again in round 12 against Werribee and then do it against Sandringham the following week which then gets us to the mid season bye. Hopefully by then he'll have a good block of games showing that he has really brought in to the system we play with and then he has earned another shot at senior level and hopefully comes back a better player again.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

maybe he is just not as good as some think

Wow now you are asking for it !!

 

[_RT_]

maybe he is just not as good as some think

 

[Vassp]

No this is wrong as it's up to him as the coaching staff have already told him what they expect from him. When he's beaten he needs to work harder so the defenders just don't waltz away from him. He gives up too easily when he doesn't have the ball. He needs to up his pressure acts and make tackles stick. He missed a tackle in the last quarter of vfl game and had he held it up it could have resulted us getting a score from the stoppage. If i recall the game was a drawn one.

I did say upto him to find his confidence.

 

[Bojangles17]

This kid clearly doesnt see how good he can be with some tweaking.

That said though, sometimes you just gotta let players play.

Funny listening to Sanderson on sen he said some players like JDG and Steve Johnson you couldnt talk structure as it inhibited their play too much , just let them play , I take it dusty gets this license , I reckon cumbo likely a bit like this too , gotta find the balance

 

[Vassp]

Funny listening to Sanderson on sen he said some players like JDG and Steve Johnson you couldnt talk structure as it inhibited their play too much , just let them play , I take it dusty gets this license , I reckon cumbo likely a bit like this too , gotta find the balance

Which is basically my point. Its not just him, its the coaches as well. Now that we are playing much better im sure he would rise as well.

 

[Bojangles17]

I don't want to be hard on the kid, but this is now his fourth year on the list and he still hasn't worked out our style of play and what the coaches expect from him. I want to compare him to Mansell who's probably taken his spot . Cumberland would have more skills and talent in his big toe than Mansell, but if you measured their attitude, ticker and discipline it would be the other way round. Mansell gets games bc he does everything the coaches ask from him and won't be allowed to be bullied by anyone as well as allow his teammates to be bullied. His attack on Stewart was inspirational and lifted the boys Friday night and he was complimented by his teammates for it. That's how you earn respect and build your confidence by playing for your coaches, teammates and wearing the jumper with pride. Mansell will always keep him out of the side if Noah can't learn to do these basic team things.

Well said

 

[Bojangles17]

Which is basically my point. Its not just him, its the coaches as well. Now that we are playing much better im sure he would rise as well.

It’s very much on the young bloke , tbh if you’re gonna get a green light you gotta be elite , there was a game earlier where he had several tackles , not sure why he’s alarmingly dropped off since , it’s a worry for his future

 

[juss]

Just get him back in, too good a talent to waste in the VFL

 

[Tiger V]

he will end up a great player, i hope it will be for the Tigers.

 

[biaseddustyfan]

 

[living_in_syd]

Best afield in vfl

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

he will end up a great player, i hope it will be for the Tigers.

Can see him ended up elsewhere which would be frustrating.

 

[Crumpet_avenger]

Would of won with him in the 1s

 

[juss]

Would of won with him in the 1s

Story of our season.

 

[Neen]

We have nothing to lose. Play him for the rest of the season or risk losing him...