Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

[Walshawk]

I say this with no experience of living in Sydney.

"Western Sydney" is definitely more identifiable from a location perspective, but "GWS" is distinct. Across all competitions, all sports, you know who GWS is. But whatever they're called, whether it's Western Sydney or GWS, I think that title should be more important in the marketing than the "Giants".

I agree that the uniforms are better now. I think a lesser focus on white is good. I love the Never Surrender colour scheme, but I still would've preferred a more traditional guernsey. The Never Surrender would've looked great with three really thin chevrons. I also think black and orange hoops would've looked good.

Disagree strongly. Reckon half of Western Sydney still would not know who/what GWS is.

If you were from Parramatta (for example), and you were listening to the radio or watching the news, and you heard 'today Western Sydney beat Collingwood' your ears might prick up. If you hear 'GWS...', it means nothing. Nobody is identifies as being from GWS, or even Greater Western Sydney. Every time the words GWS are uttered, it is a missed opportunity to attract the attention of the supposed two million potential Giants who live in Western Sydney.

The other mistake was setting up in Blacktown. The games needs to work its way westward. It will be decades before they get any traction in places like Penrith or Blacktown.

 

[Coolangatta]

Disagree strongly. Reckon half of Western Sydney still would not know who/what GWS is.

If you were from Parramatta (for example), and you were listening to the radio or watching the news, and you heard 'today Western Sydney beat Collingwood' your ears might prick up. If you hear 'GWS...', it means nothing. Nobody is identifies as being from GWS, or even Greater Western Sydney. Every time the words GWS are uttered, it is a missed opportunity to attract the attention of the supposed two million potential Giants who live in Western Sydney.

The other mistake was setting up in Blacktown. The games needs to work its way westward. It will be decades before they get any traction in places like Penrith or Blacktown.

If they do change to Western Sydney Giants, I hope they don't change their club song. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to change "We’re the Greater Western Sydney Giants" to "We're the Western Sydney Giants" without messing up the song.

 

[madmug]

Disagree strongly. Reckon half of Western Sydney still would not know who/what GWS is.

If you were from Parramatta (for example), and you were listening to the radio or watching the news, and you heard 'today Western Sydney beat Collingwood' your ears might prick up. If you hear 'GWS...', it means nothing. Nobody is identifies as being from GWS, or even Greater Western Sydney. Every time the words GWS are uttered, it is a missed opportunity to attract the attention of the supposed two million potential Giants who live in Western Sydney.

The other mistake was setting up in Blacktown. The games needs to work its way westward. It will be decades before they get any traction in places like Penrith or Blacktown.

Yes, GWS such a big wide area its not just the name which means SFA to people. Its that the massive area from the Hawkesbury region, though Penrith, Liverpool to Campbelltown is so wide & diverse its hard for any one club to be 'local'. Even then they play 4 games in Canberra!!!

The AFL should have started with just Western Sydney & played all home games in the west.

 

[Bushy70]

However is there a bias with the player selection.

Is the fact there are so many Victorians teams, resulting in those clubs favouring local boys low in the draft. Picking Victorians removes the risk of the ‘go home factor’ of picking equally skilled players from outside Victoria.

Likewise, non-Victorian clubs pick local kids lower in the draft where possible. But because there are fewer WA teams and SA teams etc, less kids from those states are pick up, despite being as good as others who get drafted.

So, if there were less Victorian teams, would the percentage of Victorian pick in the draft also go down?

I don’t know the stats, but just a thought.

You might be onto something there…

 

[kranger]

You might be onto something there…

I guess the easiest way to try and judge it would be to group the draft rounds and compare playing careers for those drafted between 2000-2010 as most would be out of the system or have a high game count. It is also outside the period of any new teams causing a lopsided draft.

Group all draftees (regardless of state) into three as a good control. You would think those picked higher have played more games than those picked lower.

1. the first and second rounds of the draft;
2. the third and fourth rounds of the draft;
3. the fifth and more rounds of the draft;

Ofcourse that presumption could be wrong.

The next step would be to do the same as above, but split everyone based on state of origin. See if kids from any states stand out, above or below the national average for game counts in the higher, middle or lower section of the draft. Who knows, perhaps SA kids picked in the first two rounds tend to play more games than the national average, whilst WA kids in the last rounds tend to play less games than the national average for that category.

But the biggest filter, would be to also breakdown the research to be based on if the kid was picked up by a home state club or an interstate club. Could this suggest that Vic kids picked low on the draft by a Vic club played on average less games than a Vic kid selected by a non-Vic team and also less games than any kid from a different state picked by any club?

That would no doubt take a long time to work out. You would need to have collated every draft pick from those years, their playing record, state of origin, state of club picked up by.

 

[RedV3x]

You might be onto something there…

10 Victorian AFL teams to 8 non-Victorian teams. Not much of an imbalance.

 

[kranger]

No wonder the WAFL and SANFL get bigger crowds than the VFL, in Melbourne it is as cheap to go to the AFL as it is to go to the state leagues in WA and SA. I guess that’s what happens when you have a city over saturated with AFL teams and you are desperate to get people to attend.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0My3hpRqJT9C2f9WxHaK3X3FiTW3uGzJSn59hLCx25b8E2d5HppEKX9462XbFi8Ail&id=100063644327288&mibextid=qC1gEa

A third WA AFL team would be beneficial if it allows families to go to Optus Stadium for as cheap as you can do it in Melbourne.

 

[RedV3x]

No wonder the WAFL and SANFL get bigger crowds than the VFL, in Melbourne it is as cheap to go to the AFL as it is to go to the state leagues in WA and SA.

I guess that’s what happens when you have a city with a state government that squeezes local sports.

 

[Kwality]

Yes, GWS such a big wide area its not just the name which means SFA to people. Its that the massive area from the Hawkesbury region, though Penrith, Liverpool to Campbelltown is so wide & diverse its hard for any one club to be 'local'. Even then they play 4 games in Canberra!!!

The AFL should have started with just Western Sydney & played all home games in the west.

So where. It is a wide, diverse area 'the west'.

I remember this: 'in 2012 Blacktown International Sportspark hosted the GWS Giants and West Coast Eagles Blacktown City’s first ever premiership game.'

AFL

Looking for a AFL team to join? Use AFL Sydney's club finder here.Blacktown International Sports Park is home base for AFL NSW/ACT West Office. If you have any AFL enquiries please contact AFL NSW/ACT by calling 8333 8000.

www.blacktownsportspark.com.au

 

[madmug]

So where. It is a wide, diverse area 'the west'.

I remember this: 'in 2012 Blacktown International Sportspark hosted the GWS Giants and West Coast Eagles Blacktown City’s first ever premiership game.'

AFL

Looking for a AFL team to join? Use AFL Sydney's club finder here.Blacktown International Sports Park is home base for AFL NSW/ACT West Office. If you have any AFL enquiries please contact AFL NSW/ACT by calling 8333 8000.

www.blacktownsportspark.com.au

WTF?

Perhaps look at a map or maybe visit & drive around a bit. or, like some of us, live & work in parts of it for a while & you may understand something a little more.

 

[RedV3x]

WTF?

Perhaps look at a map or maybe visit & drive around a bit. or, like some of us, live & work in parts of it for a while & you may understand something a little more.

i don't think it's such a dumbass question when you consider Blacktown was mainly a training venue.
Where do you suggest games should have been played?

 

[Kwality]

WTF?

Perhaps look at a map or maybe visit & drive around a bit. or, like some of us, live & work in parts of it for a while & you may understand something a little more.

Look at a map eh !
I have lived & worked in Sydney & dont consider I have enough knowledge to make a useful suggestion for where out west to locate GWS.
I trust your comments on the Hobart site reflect an understanding significantly more than you have suggested is sufficient for GWS.

 

[Kwality]

The AFL should have started with just Western Sydney & played all home games in the west.

So where. It is a wide, diverse area 'the west'.

i don't think it's such a dumbass question when you consider Blacktown was mainly a training venue.
Where do you suggest games should have been played?

 

[madmug]

Look at a map eh !
I have lived & worked in Sydney & dont consider I have enough knowledge to make a useful suggestion for where out west to locate GWS.
I trust your comments on the Hobart site reflect an understanding significantly more than you have suggested is sufficient for GWS.

You need to read my post. I said nothing about the stadium. I was pointing out the problem of trying to be meaningful & represent GWS Giants to such a large & diverse area. The Greater Western Sydney as a name doesn't really mean much to people.

Locals Identify more with names like Hawkesbury, Penrith, Blacktown, Campbelltown, Liverpool, Parramatta etc, oh! & SYDNEY.

I've said before they maybe should just have called them the Sydney Giants. Play where the rail service is able to get people to & from a decent stadium. Also play all home games in Sydney, not sell them.

If the AFL want to get better traction, recognition, support, stay in the place & play there.

Its a bit like the WA3 discussion. I've seen BF people looking for a name & a region for any new team. I'd have always though just call it PERTH, play in the new stadium. Maybe develop some training center at a WAFL ground, like Leederville?

Any approach to starting a team in Sydney' western areas was always going to take time, just don't make it any harder than it already is, was all I'm saying. WA3 also.

 

[Kwality]

You need to read my post. I said nothing about the stadium. I was pointing out the problem of trying to be meaningful & represent GWS Giants to such a large & diverse area. The Greater Western Sydney as a name doesn't really mean much to people.

Locals Identify more with names like Hawkesbury, Penrith, Blacktown, Campbelltown, Liverpool, Parramatta etc, oh! & SYDNEY.

I've said before they maybe should just have called them the Sydney Giants. Play where the rail service is able to get people to & from a decent stadium. Also play all home games in Sydney, not sell them.

If the AFL want to get better traction, recognition, support, stay in the place & play there.

Its a bit like the WA3 discussion. I've seen BF people looking for a name & a region for any new team. I'd have always though just call it PERTH, play in the new stadium. Maybe develop some training center at a WAFL ground, like Leederville?

Any approach to starting a team in Sydney' western areas was always going to take time, just don't make it any harder than it already is, was all I'm saying. WA3 also.

So where ?

 

[Bjo187]

You need to read my post. I said nothing about the stadium. I was pointing out the problem of trying to be meaningful & represent GWS Giants to such a large & diverse area. The Greater Western Sydney as a name doesn't really mean much to people.

Locals Identify more with names like Hawkesbury, Penrith, Blacktown, Campbelltown, Liverpool, Parramatta etc, oh! & SYDNEY.

I've said before they maybe should just have called them the Sydney Giants. Play where the rail service is able to get people to & from a decent stadium. Also play all home games in Sydney, not sell them.

If the AFL want to get better traction, recognition, support, stay in the place & play there.

Its a bit like the WA3 discussion. I've seen BF people looking for a name & a region for any new team. I'd have always though just call it PERTH, play in the new stadium. Maybe develop some training center at a WAFL ground, like Leederville?

Any approach to starting a team in Sydney' western areas was always going to take time, just don't make it any harder than it already is, was all I'm saying. WA3 also.

I agree with all this, however they weren't allowed to be called 'sydney' due to an agreement with the swans. I would default to Greater Sydney Giants, it gives them wider appeal to pull some fan base from stronger footy parts of the city.

My ideal would be 7 games at homebush, 4 at a redeveloped north sydney oval.

 

[madmug]

I agree with all this, however they weren't allowed to be called 'sydney' due to an agreement with the swans. I would default to Greater Sydney Giants, it gives them wider appeal to pull some fan base from stronger footy parts of the city.

My ideal would be 7 games at homebush, 4 at a redeveloped north sydney oval.

Where they play really matters not except as I say it really needs to have good rail access.

North Sydney Oval won't get redeveloped. Its historic, it has old SCG stands & the locals wouldn't accept losing any of the surrounding recreation gardens. Its also hardly West Sydney sort of territory!!

 

[Bjo187]

Where they play really matters not except as I say it really needs to have good rail access.

North Sydney Oval won't get redeveloped. Its historic, it has old SCG stands & the locals wouldn't accept losing any of the surrounding recreation gardens. Its also hardly West Sydney sort of territory!!

I feel like north sydney locals really get behind their teams, they are the biggest area in Australia without a professional sporting team and have the least interest in nrl out of the whole of nsw.

North Sydney oval stands are not heritage listed, only the ground is, cricket is currently proposing a major redevelopment already.

They don't need to play all their games in western sydney if they drop the 'western' name, that's the whole point in becoming just 'Greater Sydney'.

 

[madmug]

I feel like north sydney locals really get behind their teams, they are the biggest area in Australia without a professional sporting team and have the least interest in nrl out of the whole of nsw.

North Sydney oval stands are not heritage listed, only the ground is, cricket is currently proposing a major redevelopment already.

They don't need to play all their games in western sydney if they drop the 'western' name, that's the whole point in becoming just 'Greater Sydney'.

Greater Sydney is fine as a name. However, the object is to grow the game in the Western areas on the city which is an area with a population 500k greater than Perth.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If they do change to Western Sydney Giants, I hope they don't change their club song. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to change "We’re the Greater Western Sydney Giants" to "We're the Western Sydney Giants" without messing up the song.

Just have to substitute "famous" or "mighty" for "Greater" and it all still fits.

 

[Rob]

Just have to substitute "famous" or "mighty" for "Greater" and it all still fits.

Not quite as bad as when Adelaide had to replace "Camry" in their club song with "Ad-lade" and then just gave up and went with the 3 syllables even though it didn't fit.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Just have to substitute "famous" or "mighty" for "Greater" and it all still fits.

Even just a longer "we're" would work.

"Weeee're the Western Sydney Giants".

 

[Coolangatta]

Even just a longer "we're" would work.

"Weeee're the Western Sydney Giants".

"We're the Mighty Fighting Giants.
We love our Club, and we play to win,
Riding the bumps with a grin (at West Sydney)."

 

[The_Reaper]

Only ever see eastern staters advocating for WA3

 

[Coolangatta]

Only ever see eastern staters advocating for WA3

I wonder why that is.

Would a third WA team add more viewers to the game? I doubt it, people all over our state are engaged; but I can see Canberra TV ratings going up if they had a team because having their own team I would imagine would spike interest, the same way more WA people starting watching the VFL when the Eagles joined.

For all that is said about Victoria's TV ratings, they'd be fine even if they had 6 or 7 teams. An 18 year old St Kilda supporter or 30 year old North supporter might not ever watch footy again but their kids will, and new migrants might take up the game, too. They'd be fine in the long-term; it'd still be the biggest footy market in the game.