Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 19: Law and Odour

[Chief]

We've all gone to the Trump thread part 20:

Play Nice - 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 20: The Decline of Donald

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www.bigfooty.com

 

[Spearman]

No, it simply wont matter.

Trump can (as President) direct the DOJ however he wants. This included directing them to drop the case against himself.

He can also issue Pardons for any crime. Arguably to himself.

It's effectively a dead letter case now.

The SCOTUS was trying to push the case back till after the elections for this very reason. They've succeeded.

Yes, DoJ will be out of the fight, especially if he can replace or repress the sub-level officials who threatened to resign en masse last time.
The Congress can, if they can knock down the MAGAs in there. The Dems and normy Reps can band together and impeach him. That is their card. They got Nixon. It would take the old GOP types to show some balls and leadership to go against the mob.

 

[Leon]

Is any one else a little worried by what Trump is going to do when he gets in office again in November having regard to this decision?

Big time.

I will say though, and I’m only a part time reader/contributor to this thread, so don’t know what others think, but I’m actually not convinced he will beat Biden (assuming it is Biden)

I agree he’s a big chance (which is a joke in itself) but I’m not convinced he’s got it just yet.

Think it’s forgotten just how unpopular Trump is - he has a base of rusted on lunatics obviously, but plenty more people loathe him than like him.

Just a question of whether enough of these people show up to vote against him.

 

[bourbons]

It would take the old GOP types to show some balls and leadership to go against the mob.

Exactly why it won't happen. The old guard has been completely subsumed, the lunatics are now running the asylum.

 

[Festerz]

No surprises here of course. Members of cults always think their cult should be immune from the laws that they want to apply to others

 

[Nikita Blue]

 

[DickieKnee]

Is any one else a little worried by what Trump is going to do when he gets in office again in November having regard to this decision?

It will have repercussions around the world. I think we can say goodbye to NATO and AUKUS.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

Is any one else a little worried by what Trump is going to do when he gets in office again in November having regard to this decision?

All we can do is sit back and watch the show.

It's like watching the fall of the Roman Empire in real-time. Truly fascinating.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Just when you thought it couldn't become a bigger shithole that country still manages to lower the bar

 

[Mick F]

All we can do is sit back and watch the show.

It's like watching the fall of the Roman Empire in real-time. Truly fascinating.

Christian nationalism’s Project 2025 is candid about its ultimate goal: to reprogram the U.S. administrative state to support and sustain archconservative rule for decades to come. A politicized bureaucracy, immunity against congressional oversight and the abusive deployment of govt agencies as a tool of political retribution.

 

[Malifice]

It's like watching the fall of the Roman Empire in real-time. Truly fascinating.

https://alphahistory.com/weimarrepublic/why-the-weimar-republic-failed/

A more recent, and closer example.

With shocking similarities.

 

[Not Important]

To draw legal comparison between the immunity decision of the US Supreme Court and Crown immunity afforded in Commonwealth countries misses he point both politically and morally. Let alone the vast difference in the evolution of the constraints of monarchial power over the Parliament that exists in constitutional monarchies like the UK compared with the US political system. (Refer Exhibit A: The execution of Charles I on Parliamentary decree)

I think it's worth reflecting on the minority opinion of the three dissent opinions of Justices Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson and Elena Kagan who warned that the ruling could give Trump the power to assassinate rivals and order military coups in the future. Especially in the critical context of a rapidly eroding respect for the fundamentals of justice and democracy within the US political system.

Writing on behalf of the three dissenting justices, Sotomayor described the dangers thus:

“The president of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world. When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organises a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune,”

“Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the president and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law.”

it’s terrifying. i’m unsure of the most impartial way of making judicial appointments but allowing them to be entirely at the behest of politicians needs to be addressed.

 

[bourbons]

it’s terrifying. i’m unsure of the most impartial way of making judicial appointments but allowing them to be entirely at the behest of politicians needs to be addressed.

Just need term limits for a start imo. The idea that you're stuck with ideologue nutcases for life is truly bonkers.

 

[Saint]

It will have repercussions around the world. I think we can say goodbye to NATO and AUKUS.

China will have analysed Trump's first term and know exactly what to do for his second. Taiwan, here they come.

Russia have already got Trump stitched up in their pocket, but the rest of NATO and Biden have put long-term agreements in place, so Trump will have to actively ditch NATO for Russia, which will be a hard sell, but Russia might make it worth his while.

I think the ruling helps Trump avoid a trial during the campaign, but gives Biden more ammo as to why Trump shouldn't be in charge. With even more immunity, a convicted felon DEFINITELY shouldn't be back in charge.

But if Biden puts in another Dazed and Confused debate performance, or can't make some coherent public appearances in the mean-time, it might not matter. Appearing Presidential has always polled much more importantly than policies with swinging voters.

It's a harder sell to get people to drive people to vote for a person who's in some level of significant cognitive decline. Democrat attendance will be down.

 

[Malifice]

Writing on behalf of the three dissenting justices, Sotomayor described the dangers thus:

“The president of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world. When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organises a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune,”

Thats a poor dissent.

The majority were not asserting that a President could do any of those things.

Unless you consider 'murdering a political rival' to be within the scope of the Presidents official constitutional duties (and it's not).

 

[Not Important]

Just need term limits for a start imo. The idea that you're stuck with ideologue nutcases for life is truly bonkers.

yes, but it goes way deeper than that. judges who are primarily political ideologues can do a lot of damage quickly.

there needs to be a better, fairer , merit-based system

 

[Malifice]

"Under our constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature of presidential power entitles a former president to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority. "And he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts. There is no immunity for unofficial acts."

That's the line here.

1) In performance of his Constitutional duties and authority, absolute immunity.
2) In performance of an official act, presumptive immunity (the presumption can be rebutted).
3) Private acts, not within his official capacity as President, no immunity.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

That's the line here.

1) In performance of his Constitutional duties and authority, absolute immunity.
2) In performance of an official act, presumptive immunity (the presumption can be rebutted).
3) Private acts, not within his official capacity as President, no immunity.

I suspect that the main concern is that Democrats are likely to observe the line, but Trump won't.

 

[bourbons]

That's the line here.

1) In performance of his Constitutional duties and authority, absolute immunity.
2) In performance of an official act, presumptive immunity (the presumption can be rebutted).
3) Private acts, not within his official capacity as President, no immunity.

Fair bit of gray in number 2 (which Trump will endeavor to make even grayer)

 

[bourbons]

Think I might have asked you this before - what would you propose as a consequence for a POTUS involved in a fake elector scheme, asking state reps to find votes and flip states, and pressuring their VP to not certify the result? Absolutely nothing? Thought I'd ask again, seeing as you're clearly concerned about duly elected presidents being removed and no need for elections.

Balls In? Any time you're ready bud.

 

[Strange Cat]

Fair bit of gray in number 2 (which Trump will endeavor to make even grayer)

Well he tried to state that he unclassified the documents with his mind so I’m sure he’s going to state that he declared his actions a official duty just by thinking or saying it is with no checks or balance

 

[happy_eagle]

Unless you consider 'murdering a political rival' to be within the scope of the Presidents official constitutional duties (and it's not).

The issue being you could justify the action was delivered in order to achieve one of the constitutional duties.

If for example the constitutional duty was to maintain democracy, and you ordered the elimination of a political rival that was a significant threat to democracy, would that fall under a constitutional action ?

It creates grey area, like a lot of law.

 

[60 Yards Out]

Thats a poor dissent.

The majority were not asserting that a President could do any of those things.

Unless you consider 'murdering a political rival' to be within the scope of the Presidents official constitutional duties (and it's not).

In theory, yes. In practice, the judicial process lags the course of events by a long time — years in trump’s case. He would never bother to test the legality of an act before committing it, and the prospect of being pursued in the legal system afterwards wouldn’t give him a moment’s hesitation. A criminal acting with the protection of “the presumption of immunity“ is what he would be.

 

[Mick F]

The issue being you could justify the action was delivered in order to achieve one of the constitutional duties.

If for example the constitutional duty was to maintain democracy, and you ordered the elimination of a political rival that was a significant threat to democracy, would that fall under a constitutional action ?

It creates grey area, like a lot of law.

Supreme Court ruled that courts (DOJ) may not inquire into the president's motive to determine if he was acting in an official capacity. Intent irrelevant - clearly a President would always be acting in the country’s best interests.

A democracy is reliant upon the people taking their civic duty seriously, when selecting their representatives.

 

[Blue1980]

He's be a moderate in today's GOP.

Considered a RINO

 

[BigTacoBandit]

Christian nationalism’s Project 2025 is candid about its ultimate goal: to reprogram the U.S. administrative state to support and sustain archconservative rule for decades to come. A politicized bureaucracy, immunity against congressional oversight and the abusive deployment of govt agencies as a tool of political retribution.

So turn the US into Gilead??? Got it