Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 20: The Decline of Donald

[ShanDog]

Mod Notice
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Specifically: reference to TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) and its counterpart 'Trumpanzee' or anything similar will no longer be allowed.

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This thread is not about Covid, lockdowns, or vaccines. It is about Donald Trump. While Trump was in office during the pandemic and his response to Covid is relevant, there are pertinent threads for you to post your opinions on those things in.

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Thanks all.

As always, please submit ideas for the thread title by tagging Gethelred! Congrats to Nikita Blue for our new thread title!

Joe Biden, 46th President Thread is over there ->

< - Trump 19 is back there.

 

[Spearman]

I think a little understated consequence of this election is that thuggery and intimidation will become more widespread. It works. He cowed the GOP with his mob ready to attack them in media or physically. They threaten election workers, and many quit prior to this election.
It won't stop or slow down. It will get worse.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Democrats are in all sorts. They threw everything they had and couldn’t do it.

Trump has singlehandedly killed off the Democrat Party and the Republican Party.

Both will struggle to recover.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

There's two key aspects to why I was so against Trump being re-elected.

Firstly, his policies (or as many might argue, lack thereof). His political ideologies can be debated, and have been at length, and are very much subjective and based upon one's own ideals and agendas. If you're ant-vax, climate change denialist, white-power, patriarchal, anti-woke, pro-Evangelism and Christian fundamentalism etc then Trump is your guy. If you take the opposite stance on these, as I do, then his appointment is dire.

Secondly, Trump being re-elected is just a win for basic campaignerism. He is everything that I've tried to teach my children not to be. Don't be a liar, a shirker, a bad loser, a fake, un-Australian or an arseh*le to people ... I could go on, but you get the idea. I wouldn't choose to have someone like him anywhere near my life - I just couldn't trust him. But he's won, and so too then have all those who would replicate his campaigner behaviours.

 

[Celebrity 101]

Dem voting results of the last 5 elections 2008-2024.

Obama 2008: 69 million votes
Obama 2012: 65 million votes
Hillary 2016: 65 million votes
Biden 2020: 81 million votes
Kamala 2024: 67-68 million votes

Statistically that 81 million figure Biden pulled out in 2020 is an outlier. Trumps popular vote number is around the same as 2020 as it was this years: 72-74 million.

People cry that Trump is an election denier but the very real truth is how the **** did Biden pull 80+ million votes. Very very suspicious I must say, I’ll even dare say it’s rigged.

Trump did something no president has done in decades. He didn’t start a war. I’m glad his back in, deservedly so after he was robbed in 2020. Kamala 2IC’d terrible inflation, a wide open border and the war machine began again under her watch. They tried playing the switch when she received zero votes in the Dem party and hoping it would work, I’m glad it failed badly.

Trumps rightfully back where he should’ve been in 2020, and this time the saboteurs and snakes who plotted his and the countries downfall will be far far away.

 

[Tadpole]

Most Americans who voted for Trump.

Sad but true.

 

[Blue1980]

Trump has singlehandedly killed off the Democrat Party and the Republican Party.

Both will struggle to recover.

It isn’t the end of history, though it may go down darker paths before it gets better.

 

[JackOutback]

Dem voting results of the last 5 elections 2008-2024.

Obama 2008: 69 million votes
Obama 2012: 65 million votes
Hillary 2016: 65 million votes
Biden 2020: 81 million votes
Kamala 2024: 67-68 million votes

Statistically that 81 million figure Biden pulled out in 2020 is an outlier. Trumps popular vote number is around the same as 2020 as it was this years: 72-74 million.

People cry that Trump is an election denier but the very real truth is how the **** did Biden pull 80+ million votes. Very very suspicious I must say, I’ll even dare say it’s rigged.

Trump did something no president has done in decades. He didn’t start a war. I’m glad his back in, deservedly so after he was robbed in 2020. Kamala 2IC’d terrible inflation, a wide open border and the war machine began again under her watch. They tried playing the switch when she received zero votes in the Dem party and hoping it would work, I’m glad it failed badly.

Trumps rightfully back where he should’ve been in 2020, and this time the saboteurs and snakes who plotted his and the countries downfall will be far far away.

There's no conspiracy, Trump's first term was shambolic and as it was limping towards the election, the economy was in the toilet (not his fault, COVID wreaked havoc) and a million people were dead (his fault, the US response was outrageously bad). People desperately wanted him out but also knew he had a devoted (cult-like) following and had to turn out in big numbers to oust him. I suspect the Dems will get another bump in 2028 as the American people look to oust his annointed successor after another shambolic four years.

 

[IlovethePies]

There's no conspiracy, Trump's first term was shambolic and as it was limping towards the election, the economy was in the toilet (not his fault, COVID wreaked havoc) and a million people were dead (his fault, the US response was outrageously bad). People desperately wanted him out but also knew he had a devoted (cult-like) following and had to turn out in big numbers to oust him. I suspect the Dems will get another bump in 2028 as the American people look to oust his annointed successor after another shambolic four years.

You're assuming that there will be another election. Trump, in one of his recent fascistic declarations, mentioned that this would be the last time his supporters would have to turn up to vote him in.

 

[cotter101]

There's no conspiracy, Trump's first term was shambolic and as it was limping towards the election, the economy was in the toilet (not his fault, COVID wreaked havoc) and a million people were dead (his fault, the US response was outrageously bad). People desperately wanted him out but also knew he had a devoted (cult-like) following and had to turn out in big numbers to oust him. I suspect the Dems will get another bump in 2028 as the American people look to oust his annointed successor after another shambolic four years.

Not saying the election was rigged.. but if that’s the case and they wanted to oust him, then where were the votes from that big turn out this time around?

Or did they just know he was the better choice over Kamala?

 

[IlovethePies]

Trump won because the Democrats pitched their election campaign to the top 20% in wealth terms, and treated with total contempt the economic distress of the vast majority of the population.

Trump simply recognised the economic catastrophe that has engulfed low to middle working class families in America due to a devastating wave of inflation, largely exacerbated by the Democrats' massive military expenditure on both the US nuclear arsenal and on its proxy wars abroad in Ukraine and Gaza/Lebanon.

Harris simply denied it, claiming that the economy was going well.

The US working population rejected en masse the flim-flam of identity politics based on gender, race and sexual orientation, all of which represents the obsessions and politics of the upper 10% wealth wise in US society. Identity politics repudiates any consideration of class. It denies the significance of the fact that social inequality has drastically escalated under the Biden administration.

Obama went around the country with Harris, accusing workers who might vote for Trump as "mysogynists". Workers who can hardly afford to put food on the table, despite working two or more jobs, won't feel guilty if the privileged dickhead Obama calls them a mysogynist. No wonder they all refused to vote for the candidate who stood for more of the same economic poison.

Harris then cosied up to war criminals such as George Bush, Cheney and his war rabid daughter Liz, as if an orientation to such right wing layers could win popular appeal !!

Then Biden topped it all off by perhaps inadvertently calling the working class "garbage", but letting the cat out of the bag in about the Democrats' real attitude towards the poor and the struggling.

Finally, Harris continued to support the Israeli genocide in Gaza to the hilt. Millions of young people refused to vote for a candidate they held to be complicit in genocide. Dearborn, Michigan, underwent an incredible flip in voting compared to 2020. In 2020, this region (largely Arab population) voted en masse against Trump because of his violent racist policies against Muslim countries. Come 2024, they voted for Trump because Trump has been slightly less clear about his intentions in the Middle East, and because they refused to support a pro-genocide candidate.

Finally, many were attracted to Trump's claims that he would end the war in Ukraine, and his claim likewise to end the war in Gaza (contradicting his previous declaration that Israel should "finish the job"). Such is the extreme right wing, militaristic nature of the Democratic party, it allowed Trump to actually pretend to be "anti-war".

Of course Trump is a liar. He will be just as pro-genocide as Harris. He has openly declared his willingness to inflict massive violence on Iran and North Korea, and his tariff war against China is the first stage of his war policy against China.

Trump is not a "political genius", as a shell shocked and sycophantic media is suggesting. He and his advisors capitalised on a very simple thing: Trump will mention the economic hardship of the working class and claim that he has the panacea, in contrast to Harris who continually denied it.

Trump won the election thanks to the bankruptcy of the Democrats. But the 72 million people who voted for Trump are not fascists. At the exit polls, the underlying theme of those who voted for Trump was that they wanted change. Under the Democrats, their lives had become anything from uncomfortable to economically intolerable.

They don't know yet what this change will be. When Trump assumes his position in the Oval Office, millions of people throughout the US will be shocked when Trump tries to impose policies that will truly devastate their lives.

When this happens, they won't turn back to the Democrats. They will search out a new political perspective.

The following article is a must read if you wish to understand how Trump won the election. It goes through some crucial statistics explaining how the class demographics were so graphic in this election. The Harris campaign won more support than Biden's campaign in 2020 only among the wealthiest layers of society. In fact, the wealthiest layers preferred Harris to Trump.

But the Democrats' vote collapsed among the poor to midde layers of society, the vast majority.

In fact, it seems that Trump actually won fewer votes this time than in 2020. His sweeping win in 2024 is not due to a surge in the popularity of Trump, but rather to a collapse of support for the Democrats.

On the election of Donald Trump

Trump owes his political triumph to the bankruptcy of the Democratic Party, whose fixation with the identity politics of the affluent middle class, arrogant indifference to the devastating impact of inflation on workers’ living standards and unrelenting support for war in Ukraine and genocide in...

www.wsws.org

 

[IlovethePies]

I know you will disagree, but there are many in this world sick of having to soft shoe shuffle through life because someone may take offence at a word they utter or an action they take which would have been perfectly acceptable 10-20 years back. For instance, the players from GWS suspended for wearing twin tower costumes or the umpire suspended and made to apologise for turning up at a fancy dress function as Bin Laden. Comedy is becoming a risque business because of the increasingly off limits nature of so many aspects of life that are now deemed likely to cause offence. There are so many taboo areas now, along with groups placed on pedestals who are deemed beyond the comment and certainly criticism of ordinary people.

I hate many of Trump's policies, and his acceptance of the likes of Putin and Netanyahu, along with his violent threats to fellow politicians and minority groups really worry me, but even some of the groups you'd think would be most offended by him seem to have clamoured aboard his bandwagon in this election.

I liked the way Trump wasn't afraid to justifiably niggle China with 'China plague' references. I will never forgive China for what it did to the world via its willingness to capture, torture and kill wild and domestic creatures on a massive scale, without seeing anything callous or inappropriate in its actions. Thanks to their uncivilized attitude toward sourcing food and medicines, covid was foisted on the world and not many had the balls to call them to account for it - except Trump and our own happy clappy chappy but otherwise entirely forgettable PM Morrison. Conversely, we have had Biden and Albanese react to Israel's excesses against Gaza with weasel warning and words that we know are utterly meaningless because they will never be followed up. There is a lack of courage in both leaders to act in a manner which would bring about meaningful change to a worsening situation. Trump at least says what he thinks and gives the impression that he will act on his words if required to do so.

With the likes of Trump emerging as a major player, the western world is experiencing a backlash to its newly discovered moral naval gazing and force feeding of pc value systems. My one positive takeaway from Trump's success is that it's partly built on offering an alternative to the forcing of rigid contemporary values and beliefs on people who want some space to continue to be the selves they have always been content to be.

In so many other respects Trump is an appalling creature with some weird views and an uncomfortably comfortable relationship with several of the world's most unpalatable leaders. Yet he has become a lightning rod for those seeking to divert the modern world from its goodie two shoes inclusivity and moral hand wringing.

The other thing from which Trump has profited is the absurd spending of billions and billions of dollars to prop up a world rendered indolent by the forced closure of society during the covid lockdown years. Inevitably that wastage created the inflation that led to the high living costs that have created the votes required to return Trump to power.

In a sense the world is getting with Trump what its actions and thought processes have eventually led to - a reaction against excessive and obsessive safety and security concerns and stifling of criticism or commentary on so many areas of life. We may be unable to go to a fancy dress party in fancy dress anymore, but it's fine for the likes of Israel to bomb the bejeesus out of a race of people or supermarkets to dishonestly manipulate prices in their favour while pretending to be acting in the best interests of the consumer. The ordinary person feels hopeless to do anything to change what's happening, then along comes a person who seems to speak for their frustration and thumbs his nose at the world.

I may not like the man or his policies, but I can understand why so many people see him as the way out of the mess they see the world and themselves currently enveloped in.

You are expressing your totally justified hatred for identity politics, which is the staple of the Democratic Party.

Obsession with race, sexual orientation, gender is the politics of the upper middle class, the top 10% in the wealth ladder of society, who are not concerned in the slightest with the issues of social inequality and war, but are simply trying to gain access to more wealth themselves.

Identity politics was the basis of Harris' campaign.

Identity politics is not confined to the US. It is an international phenonomen. Here in Australia it is very widespread, and serves as a cover for so called "lefts" who claim to be in favour of progress but in reality are simply seeking lucrative academic, trade union, etc positions for themselves.

The political role of identity politics is to cover up the fact that the fundamental reality of society is class division, not division based on individual identity attributes.

It leaves a toxic and nauseating taste in the working class of what supposedly represents "socialist " or "left" politics.

In reality, the purveyors of identity politics are pro-capitalist elements who are very content with the status quo, except for the fact that they want an even greater share of social wealth than they already have.

It has nothing to do with genuine socialism, which is based on the working class, and which aims to organise the working class to take up a struggle against inequality, against war. The basic premise of socialism is the international unification of the working class.

The role of identity politics is to sabotage that unity by introducing all the reactionary red herrings of "race", "gender", etc.

 

[Blue1980]

Trump won because the Democrats pitched their election campaign to the top 20% in wealth terms, and treated with total contempt the economic distress of the vast majority of the population.

Trump simply recognised the economic catastrophe that has engulfed low to middle working class families in America due to a devastating wave of inflation, largely exacerbated by the Democrats' massive military expenditure on both the US nuclear arsenal and on its proxy wars abroad in Ukraine and Gaza/Lebanon.

Harris simply denied it, claiming that the economy was going well.

The US working population rejected en masse the flim-flam of identity politics based on gender, race and sexual orientation, all of which represents the obsessions and politics of the upper 10% wealth wise in US society. Identity politics repudiates any consideration of class. It denies the significance of the fact that social inequality has drastically escalated under the Biden administration.

Obama went around the country with Harris, accusing workers who might vote for Trump as "mysogynists". Workers who can hardly afford to put food on the table, despite working two or more jobs, won't feel guilty if the privileged dickhead Obama calls them a mysogynist. No wonder they all refused to vote for the candidate who stood for more of the same economic poison.

Harris then cosied up to war criminals such as George Bush, Cheney and his war rabid daughter Liz, as if an orientation to such right wing layers could win popular appeal !!

Then Biden topped it all off by perhaps inadvertently calling the working class "garbage", but letting the cat out of the bag in about the Democrats' real attitude towards the poor and the struggling.

Finally, Harris continued to support the Israeli genocide in Gaza to the hilt. Millions of young people refused to vote for a candidate they held to be complicit in genocide. Dearborn, Michigan, underwent an incredible flip in voting compared to 2020. In 2020, this region (largely Arab population) voted en masse against Trump because of his violent racist policies against Muslim countries. Come 2024, they voted for Trump because Trump has been slightly less clear about his intentions in the Middle East, and because they refused to support a pro-genocide candidate.

Finally, many were attracted to Trump's claims that he would end the war in Ukraine, and his claim likewise to end the war in Gaza (contradicting his previous declaration that Israel should "finish the job"). Such is the extreme right wing, militaristic nature of the Democratic party, it allowed Trump to actually pretend to be "anti-war".

Of course Trump is a liar. He will be just as pro-genocide as Harris. He has openly declared his willingness to inflict massive violence on Iran and North Korea, and his tariff war against China is the first stage of his war policy against China.

Trump is not a "political genius", as a shell shocked and sycophantic media is suggesting. He and his advisors capitalised on a very simple thing: Trump will mention the economic hardship of the working class and claim that he has the panacea, in contrast to Harris who continually denied it.

Trump won the election thanks to the bankruptcy of the Democrats. But the 72 million people who voted for Trump are not fascists. At the exit polls, the underlying theme of those who voted for Trump was that they wanted change. Under the Democrats, their lives had become anything from uncomfortable to economically intolerable.

They don't know yet what this change will be. When Trump assumes his position in the Oval Office, millions of people throughout the US will be shocked when Trump tries to impose policies that will truly devastate their lives.

When this happens, they won't turn back to the Democrats. They will search out a new political perspective.

The following article is a must read if you wish to understand how Trump won the election. It goes through some crucial statistics explaining how the class demographics were so graphic in this election. The Harris campaign won more support than Biden's campaign in 2020 only among the wealthiest layers of society. In fact, the wealthiest layers preferred Harris to Trump.

But the Democrats' vote collapsed among the poor to midde layers of society, the vast majority.

In fact, it seems that Trump actually won fewer votes this time than in 2020. His sweeping win in 2024 is not due to a surge in the popularity of Trump, but rather to a collapse of support for the Democrats.

On the election of Donald Trump

Trump owes his political triumph to the bankruptcy of the Democratic Party, whose fixation with the identity politics of the affluent middle class, arrogant indifference to the devastating impact of inflation on workers’ living standards and unrelenting support for war in Ukraine and genocide in...

www.wsws.org

I think you are red pilling me, this is live footage of me below.

 

[IlovethePies]

I think you are red pilling me, this is live footage of me below.

Just googled "red pilling"... I hope you become "white-pilled" as a result!!

 

[Blue1980]

Just googled "red pilling"... I hope you become "white-pilled" as a result!!

Is it a process to go from blue to black to red to white pilled?

Would you describe yourself as white pilled? I mean I get the current system is ****ed, I think this is realisation the hope I had for incremental change via the current framework is long gone, and Harris winning may of delayed the inevitable a little bit (maybe, or maybe not even) but end of the day its all leading to the same place.

 

[Tadpole]

Is it a process to go from blue to black to red to white pilled?

I’d prefer a black and white one.

 

[10571z]

I think a little understated consequence of this election is that thuggery and intimidation will become more widespread. It works. He cowed the GOP with his mob ready to attack them in media or physically. They threaten election workers, and many quit prior to this election.
It won't stop or slow down. It will get worse.

hahah democrats were up to their neck with this. Literally calling him Hitler..
Lebrons shared video says plenty.

 

[Blue1980]

hahah democrats were up to their neck with this. Literally calling him Hitler..
Lebrons shared video says plenty.

Calling him Hitler is intimidation?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

hahah democrats were up to their neck with this. Literally calling him Hitler..
Lebrons shared video says plenty.

If I recall, "they" were comparing him to Hitler mid-1920's/early-1930's.

There's nothing that's occurred since that speculation to discredit such parallels.

If he were to be on that trajectory, what would Trump need to do if now if 2025 is the equivalent of, say, 1925 (which, just for some time context, is about 4 years after the Brown Shirts were formed)?

I'm honestly not patronising you, that's not my intention. But tell me what came next in the rise of the Third Reich that is supposedly so out of the question for MAGA/Project 2025 etc?

Just so we can reflect in a couple of years to see if it's transpired.

 

[IlovethePies]

Calling him Hitler is intimidation?

Harris called him Hitler, as if she and the Democrats just realised that, in the last 2 weeks.

They've known - for years - that Trump aspires to be the new American Fuhrer.

But they have not wished to highlight the threat that Trump poses to US democracy because;

a) they are terrified of telling American workers and youth the truth, and hence igniting a movement from below to oppose the fascist threat. Such a movement would disrupt their plans for expanding war in Ukraine and in Gaza/Lebanon.

b) their priority is to ensure that the Republican party continues to exist as a component within the current poltical framework, because they need bipartisan support for their program of expanding imperialist war.

Harris, in desperation, suddenly started referring to Trump as a fascist to try to win votes.

No one believed her, because over the last 4 years the Democrats have done everything they could to protect Trump from facing accountability for his failed coup attempt, and have preached reconciliation with the Republicans.

 

[Chief]

hahah democrats were up to their neck with this. Literally calling him Hitler..
Lebrons shared video says plenty.

He is a fascist. Unless you're using a different definition nobody else has ever heard of.

 

[Chief]

the Democrats have done everything they could to protect Trump from facing accountability for his failed coup attempt,

What specifically?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

hahah democrats were up to their neck with this. Literally calling him Hitler..
Lebrons shared video says plenty.

Say what you want about his politics, but Hitler didn't wear adult diapers.

 

[Not Important]

Say what you want about his politics, but Hitler didn't wear adult diapers.

are you sure?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

are you sure?

I'm not sure they were even invented back then. But if they were, the Germans would have had a fancy name for them.

 

[Blue1980]

Harris called him Hitler, as if she and the Democrats just realised that, in the last 2 weeks.

They've known - for years - that Trump aspires to be the new American Fuhrer.

But they have not wished to highlight the threat that Trump poses to US democracy because;

a) they are terrified of telling American workers and youth the truth, and hence igniting a movement from below to oppose the fascist threat. Such a movement would disrupt their plans for expanding war in Ukraine and in Gaza/Lebanon.

b) their priority is to ensure that the Republican party continues to exist as a component within the current poltical framework, because they need bipartisan support for their program of expanding imperialist war.

Harris, in desperation, suddenly started referring to Trump as a fascist to try to win votes.

No one believed her, because over the last 4 years the Democrats have done everything they could to protect Trump from facing accountability for his failed coup attempt, and have preached reconciliation with the Republicans.

Yes, wanting a member of this apparent fascist party in her cabinet. Bold strategy.

But yes semi-fascist war mongers v full blown fascist war mongers.

They were running a good campaign until the DNC. Then decided "**** this progressive shit, we want to win only one way, by courting neocons and pivoting to just to the left of Trump, otherwise not worth winning", and here we are. To all those who sounded the alarm and I didn't believe (or want to believe) you were right, and I was very wrong.