A club divided.

[PieNSauce]

This thread is intended to focus on the fall-out likely from the obvious current divisions in the club's support base. It's pretty obvious that there are two distinct schools of thought amongst the faithful right now and there seems little common ground between them. On the one hand there are those who follow the line of the current board which by its actions has thrown full support behind Bucks and his direction. On the other side of the equation there are those who believe his appointment and/or the moving on of Mick was a terrible mistake. The question is whether this obvious division will ultimately lead to Collingwood being consigned to a period of instability not seen since the late seventies and early eighties. The risk is clear that if the board cannot unify the members and supporters behind a common goal then it, along with Eddie and Bucks are doomed. What then? Are those who disagree with the current direction of the belief that a total overhaul from top to bottom is desirable after such a long period of stability and sustained if moderate success?

Personally it worries me enormously where this division is taking us. It seems to me that there is some support, if possibly unwitting for this eventuality and I have some suspicion that it is not unlike the perceived player disharmony. If there is player dissent then IMO the dissenters need to be moved on in favour of a team with a common focus and belief but I suspect that those who disapprove of the board's recent performance will only see that as evidence that the direction is wrong unless it achieves immediate success. The reality is that it's extraordinarily rare for the type of culture change being brought by Buckley and the board to achieve immediate success and that was also the case when Mick came to the club. The reality of the division is now becoming very clear IMO. Either you support the current board and management of the club or you believe it should be replaced. If the latter is the result then as a club I believe we are plunged into the great unknown with significant potential for another era of mediocrity and ridicule.

Do others see this danger or is it just me? Unfortunately I've been around for long enough to have seen it before and frankly I'd prefer to endure just about anything else. Please discuss but keep it nice. I know it's a highly emotive discussion but the theme here needs to be respect for the fact that we are all Collingwood supporters and want only what is good for the club.

 

[forwardflanker]

Storm in a teacup imo. The decision has been made and there's nothing that can be done about it now. Anyone constructively undermining Buckley as coach on this basis is a disgrace imo. Decisions are made, professionals accept them and get on with life.

 

[sidneyshaw]

There should be no divide considering what's done is done

Malthouse left 2 full seasons ago - an eternity in football

Despite what people think they need to throw their support behind Buckley and the club and believe that things will turn around. It's not all doom and gloom, look at all the players blooded this year. Buckley is going hard with youth and a list he can mould to his liking of culture and style.

 

[vjknight]

Do others see this danger or is it just me? Unfortunately I've been around for long enough to have seen it before and frankly I'd prefer to endure just about anything else. Please discuss but keep it nice. I know it's a highly emotive discussion but the theme here needs to be respect for the fact that we are all Collingwood supporters and want only what is good for the club.

i remember those days too. significant differences exist.

1. the club could not make a correct decision back then. you name it, they stuffed it up. run totally by self interest and blinded morons.

2. social media & forums. back then, members & fans had greivances, but could not be heard and usually left it at that. these days with the club promoting contact and forums like this we all have a voice, whether perceived or real, and want to and importantly can be heard. unless the mods get ya



yeah nah

 

[PieNSauce]

Storm in a teacup imo. The decision has been made and there's nothing that can be done about it now. Anyone constructively undermining Buckley as coach on this basis is a disgrace imo. Decisions are made, professionals accept them and get on with life.

I hope you're right but I'm not so sure. This storm is now over 3 years old and shows no sign of abating. On the contrary, it has grown legs with every passing season and if the division obvious on this board is indicative of the supporter group as a whole then I believe it's cause for concern. History tells you that such deep division often gives rise to opposing opportunist tickets ready to displace the incumbent board. If that did happen and that ticket managed to attract significant support then a bloodbath would surely follow. OK, so it might be a little melodramatic and possibly a bit of an overreaction but I'm sure I don't recall a time since the 70's and 80's when supporters seemed so divided. Many here might not remember the ridicule that this club was subjected to back then but unfortunately I remember it like it was yesterday. The knockout punch for me was the years spent regaining respect from the football community and those who see Eddie as nothing but an egotistical big mouth should understand very clearly what he has done for this club.

What I mean to highlight by this thread is the threat that this division poses to the club and that IMO, if allowed to continue, could easily see a return to the dark days. You may well ask if I am certain that the current direction will produce success and the answer quite obviously has to be no I am not. What I do know though is that the board and management of the club have consistently made decisions over the years which have advanced the prospects of the club both on and off the field. As a result, whilst I may have misgivings about individual decisions or appointments, I am happy to show faith in a group which has a proven track record and support those programs, appointments and decisions which it makes until and unless there is positive proof that the direction is errant. I see no such evidence at this point. All I see is the inevitable transition from one coaching philosophy to another and I am as yet undecided about which is better. What I also see on this board over the last couple of years is a willingness by some to curiously expect the same level of performance from a far less experienced group than was provided by the team fielded in 2010/2011.

No doubt there are issues which will rankle with some and I include the perception of player disharmony and the exodus of staff who were perceived to be critical in our 2010 success and I definitely understand that these things will have the appearance of a club in decline. In my view though, these things were inevitable immediately it was decided that a change in the coaching role was necessary. It's totally normal for some staff and players to be uncomfortable with change. That is human nature. There will be those who will buy in to the vision and those who either can't or won't for whatever reason. That carnage will always be far more prevalent when the incumbent coach has had such a long period of tenure because their replacement will always challenge what players etc have come to believe in under the outgoing coach. Personally, I couldn't care who gets delisted, sacked or otherwise moves on if they can't or won't align behind the direction of the club. It was always inevitable and those who seem shocked by it just haven't had to deal with it much before. The reality is that it is more the norm than something new and unexpected IMO.

 

[No SPIN]

Don't know how MM spitting the dummy can be blamed on the board - the same board who delivered a succession plan resulting in a flag.

There is nothing that the board needs to answer for, and the Bucks appointment was lauded by supporters. He faces the unfortunate task of wrenching the club in a new direction. Senior players have experienced success and are reluctant but the events of the week-end is the wake up call they needed.

MM created the division that Bucks has been forced to manage, and it hasn't been an easy task.

 

[PieNSauce]

Don't know how MM spitting the dummy can be blamed on the board - the same board who delivered a succession plan resulting in a flag.

There is nothing that the board needs to answer for, and the Bucks appointment was lauded by supporters. He faces the unfortunate task of wrenching the club in a new direction. Senior players have experienced success and are reluctant but the events of the week-end is the wake up call they needed.

MM created the division that Bucks has been forced to manage, and it hasn't been an easy task.

I think there's an element of truth in this but I am absolutely not going to focus on the blame game. To me it is irrelevant because the club has taken a path and people can either support it or not. I personally see no point in trying to pull it down unless you are certain it's wrong and can provide THE answer. If that is the case then you should challenge the president but be aware that it will take a hell of a CV and a cast iron guarantee of success to displace him.

 

[Enforcer]

I do not see the club divided but see a club that has acknowledged that Father Time has caught up with a good portion of the senior team and they are not capable of playing at the same standards of previously. Players who take it upon themselves to go outside the team ethos will no longer be tolerated.

Seems many supporters expect success and premierships to be a god given right. It does not work that way.

You need to keep evolving and trying to stay ahead of the opposition.

Our club is known throughout the industry as innovators not imitators so this latest show of faith in Buckley, Hine, Eade, etc. is a decision by the executive that the glory days are behind us and we need to re-build for the next dynasty.

I for one am glad we bowed out early this year as this process will only ensure a better playing list and stable football department rather than mask our shortcoming with another week or two in the finals and another year of playing footballers who are no longer up it or who refuse to buy into Buckley's mantra.

 

[mattys123]

This "club divided" thing isn't new, I call it the "optimists" and "pessimists" side of our fan group, and it's been around for ever.

We've had instability at this club ever since John Wren and Jock McHale died in 1953. Probably the only period of some stability was around 1990 (and even that only lasted for a few seasons, by 93 we were infighting again) and late in the first decade of this century, which also delivered a flag.

But even in those periods of stability there were plenty who didn't like McAllister or McGuire, and plenty mroe who didn't like Matthews or Malthouse.

As a club we are never, ever going to please all of our members at once, that only happens in the days after we win a flag, and even then the pessimists make comments that seem so out of place it isn't funny.

But it's also what makes us Collingwood, that we have a diverse group of supporters, from all religions, races, backgrounds, rich/battlers, we are Collingwood because of our fans, and as dysfunctional as our fan base is, and usually our club also, it's still Collingwood and the majority of fans will hang around no matter what happens.

 

[PieNSauce]

I do not see the club divided but see a club that has acknowledged that Father Time has caught up with a good portion of the senior team and they are not capable of playing at the same standards of previously. Players who take it upon themselves to go outside the team ethos will no longer be tolerated.

Seems many supporters expect success and premierships to be a god given right. It does not work that way.

You need to keep evolving and trying to stay ahead of the opposition.

Our club is known throughout the industry as innovators not imitators so this latest show of faith in Buckley, Hine, Eade, etc. is a decision by the executive that the glory days are behind us and we need to re-build for the next dynasty.

I for one am glad we bowed out early this year as this process will only ensure a better playing list and stable football department rather than mask our shortcoming with another week or two in the finals and another year of playing footballers who are no longer up it or who refuse to buy into Buckley's mantra.

Lots of good points in this post. The division I refer to is in fact not within the club but within the supporter base so I'm not disagreeing with your assertions at all. It's becoming more and more clear to me that the rumours of player dissatisfaction surrounding an element of the playing group were in fact true. If that's the case then I don't care who they are, they must go and Bucks must be allowed to implement his strategy unencumbered by disruptive elements.

I am also glad we bowed out early. I never saw us as a premiership threat anyway and at least now we have enhanced our draft position. The way I am thinking is that if players like Daisy want to remain at Collingwood and are happy to buy in then pay them a fair price for their signature but if his indecision about Collingwood is indicative of doubts around the club direction then as far as I'm concerned he can go wherever he wants. He will be no loss in those circumstances despite his obvious ability and the fact that we will be sorry to see him go.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Storm in a teacup imo. The decision has been made and there's nothing that can be done about it now. Anyone constructively undermining Buckley as coach on this basis is a disgrace imo. Decisions are made, professionals accept them and get on with life.

Well said FF.

Bucks does not accept people who are not 100% committed to the cause.

 

[PieNSauce]

Well said FF.

Bucks does not accept people who are not 100% committed to the cause.

This is true but you have to remember that there are risks associated with lack of flexibility. I'm not suggesting that Bucks is stupid enough to make that mistake for one minute but with players, we are dealing with people who in the main are still quite young. Hopefully they have wise managers to help guide them. You also have to remember that it is very much human nature to rebel against change and those issues have to be managed well especially after long periods under a single philosophy. I personally have faith in Bucks and the club to manage these things but it seems to me that plenty of supporters here don't have the same level of confidence.

 

[the distributer]

We need the best coach money can buy, there's no room for sentiment if you want flags, end of next year we go after the best if Bucks doesn't improve IMO.

 

[Mobbsy]

If we could make the elimination final with no Daisy, almost no Didak, no BJ, only a handful of games from Beams, an injury to Ball, no Toovey, only a handful of games from Jolly, we aren't too far away.

I think the media is massively beating this up. The delists.resignations are no real surprise.

Side by Side is our mantra, it should also mean In or Out.

Daisy owes us, we stood by him for 2 years of injuries, for him to now walk for more cash is just greedy.

MM hasn't helped the cause with his 'I left the club in a winning culture, enjoyable culture...if they want to change that, then that's sad..' comment.

Maybe MM started this 'culture' problem by his documented treatment of Buckley leading up to the changeover. I wonder if some of the players were 'snickering' after seeing Micks bullying of Bucks.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

The reason you don't see Ed in a panic is because Bucks sold a long term vision.

As I posted MANY times since Bucks' appointment, we will be in for a bit of pain while Buckley removes all traces of Malthouse from this club, as he should. I want PROFESSIONAL players, not immature man babies who need to be motivated by daddy in order to play elite sport.

I suspect though that Saturday nights disgrace was a bit of a catalyst to speed up the process. I suspect some big names are about to fall.

Bring it. I'm going to love the next few months.

 

[wicksy]

The reason you don't see Ed in a panic is because Bucks sold a long term vision.

As I posted MANY times since Bucks' appointment, we will be in for a bit of pain while Buckley removes all traces of Malthouse from this club, as he should. I want PROFESSIONAL players, not immature man babies who need to be motivated by daddy in order to play elite sport.

I suspect though that Saturday nights disgrace was a bit of a catalyst to speed up the process. I suspect some big names are about to fall.

Bring it. I'm going to love the next few months.

I'm with you Ed.... It's going to be sweet watching some of these heads roll.

 

[the distributer]

If we could make the elimination final with no Daisy, almost no Didak, no BJ, only a handful of games from Beams, an injury to Ball, no Toovey, only a handful of games from Jolly, we aren't too far away.

I think the media is massively beating this up. The delists.resignations are no real surprise.

Side by Side is our mantra, it should also mean In or Out.

Daisy owes us, we stood by him for 2 years of injuries, for him to now walk for more cash is just greedy.

MM hasn't helped the cause with his 'I left the club in a winning culture, enjoyable culture...if they want to change that, then that's sad..' comment.

Maybe MM started this 'culture' problem by his documented treatment of Buckley leading up to the changeover. I wonder if some of the players were 'snickering' after seeing Micks bullying of Bucks.

The Cats have lost Hawkins-Menzal-Mcintosh-Chapman-Varcoe-Taylor Hunt-Rivers for long periods this season, don't use injuries as an excuse.

 

[PieNSauce]

The reason you don't see Ed in a panic is because Bucks sold a long term vision.

As I posted MANY times since Bucks' appointment, we will be in for a bit of pain while Buckley removes all traces of Malthouse from this club, as he should. I want PROFESSIONAL players, not immature man babies who need to be motivated by daddy in order to play elite sport.

I suspect though that Saturday nights disgrace was a bit of a catalyst to speed up the process. I suspect some big names are about to fall.

Bring it. I'm going to love the next few months.

Dare I say it, but there is no name on the list who, assuming they won't buy in is safe. Earlier in the year and also last year there were rumours even about Swan and if (and I say if) those rumours were true then don't be surprised by big name trades. Common direction and focus is far more important than big names IMO. Naturally I hope sincerely that those rumours were wrong about Swanny and in truth I don't want to believe it so I'm just using him as an example of the sort of thing that I see as possible.

 

[PieNSauce]

We need the best coach money can buy, there's no room for sentiment if you want flags, end of next year we go after the best if Bucks doesn't improve IMO.

Jury is still out on whether we already have him! Performances under extreme availability issues not to mention the rumours of player dissent suggests he's going pretty well so far.

 

[the distributer]

Jury is still out on whether we already have him! Performances under extreme availability issues not to mention the rumours of player dissent suggests he's going pretty well so far.

Injuries are like assholes, everyone has them, ours weren't much worse than Geelong-Freo IMO, we didn't have to use 40 players, we could have chose the best kids we had and showed faith in them, instead Bucks wanted to play the entire list and the only kid he showed real faith in was Sinclair lol, hardly great judgement there.

 

[PieNSauce]

Injuries are like assholes, everyone has them, ours weren't much worse than Geelong-Freo IMO, we didn't have to use 40 players, we could have chose the best kids we had and showed faith in them, instead Bucks wanted to play the entire list and the only kid he showed real faith in was Sinclair lol, hardly great judgement there.

A fairly blind view IMO. Injuries are only a part of the story which seems to be emerging. Player dissent seems to have been as big an issue for Bucks even though most supporters even from other clubs have recognised the horror run we've had with injuries has been a major factor whether you accept it or not. In the circumstances it would be easy to deduce that Bucks has been working toward addressing recalcitrant players by making them somewhat more expendable. IMO in that area he seems to have been pretty successful.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Injuries are like assholes, everyone has them, ours weren't much worse than Geelong-Freo IMO, we didn't have to use 40 players, we could have chose the best kids we had and showed faith in them, instead Bucks wanted to play the entire list and the only kid he showed real faith in was Sinclair lol, hardly great judgement there.

You mean Marley Williams and Grundy right?

But whatever suits your agenda.

 

[the distributer]

A fairly blind view IMO. Injuries are only a part of the story which seems to be emerging. Player dissent seems to have been as big an issue for Bucks even though most supporters even from other clubs have recognised the horror run we've had with injuries has been a major factor whether you accept it or not. In the circumstances it would be easy to deduce that Bucks has been working toward addressing recalcitrant players by making them somewhat more expendable. IMO in that area he seems to have been pretty successful.

His job is to win flags, not turn rockNroll stars into choirboys, our so called ''bad culture'' won a flag in 2010 and possibly had the best HaA season of all the time in 2011, yet Bucks comes in the very next year with his leading teams-completely different game plan and he's somehow trying to blame the players mindsets? come on.

If it aint broke don't fix it, and if you try and you break it don't blame anyone but yourself.

 

[the distributer]

You mean Marley Williams and Grundy right?

But whatever suits your agenda.

My only agenda is making Bucks earn his extension, compared to others who want him to get an extension in the name of stability, and stability is one of the things he's had a hand in destroying IMO, this has Voss written all over it.

 

[GETSOMENUTS]

Good topic. What some of already said I think is true and that is MM gave the good players more rope than others and Buckleys approach is one rule for one, one rule for all. The sooky guys (rat pack) whos gravy train ended are being petulant. Buckley has to sift through Micks rubbish and this cleanout we will have in the offseason isnt a slight on the club or bucks, it should be welcomed as necessary. Bring it on.