Strategy A proper forward structure

[Peninsula Boy]

This is exactly the issue though, we dont work well when we have 2 forwards that lead. Thats why Marshall and MG dont work that well together.

MG and Marshall don't work because Marshall is soft, in bad form and a decent hit away and joining a class action suit against the AFL.

I don't think we would get Luko but he's got the smarts and skills to play with Georgiades, no doubt. It's not like the only thing he can do is lead. He has a lot of attributes that give him huge potential but a couple of bad ones too. It would be best to team them up with a gorilla forward so Ratugolea fits the bill.

I just don't think we are in the running for Luko but who knows.

 

[Addy23]

MG and Marshall don't work because Marshall is soft, in bad form and a decent hit away and joining a class action suit against the AFL.

I don't think we would get Luko but he's got the smarts and skills to play with Georgiades, no doubt. It's not like the only thing he can do is lead. He has a lot of attributes that give him huge potential but a couple of bad ones too. It would be best to team them up with a gorilla forward so Ratugolea fits the bill.

I just don't think we are in the running for Luko but who knows.

There isn't much of a difference between in the playing style of Marshall and Lukosius tbh, although Marshall plays in a system where it's like a square peg in a round hole.

I think Luko gets favoured more here because he's from SA and would be a trade target. I'm not sure he's that much better than Marshall, if he is at all. Their stats for their personal best years in the Forward line for quick similar. We're hoping the 2 birds in the bush are worth more than the 1 we have in hand.

Anyways, draft thread! So maybe I should stop here

 

[Peninsula Boy]

There isn't much of a difference between in the playing style of Marshall and Lukosius tbh, although Marshall plays in a system where it's like a square peg in a round hole.

I think Luko gets favoured more here because he's from SA and would be a trade target. I'm not sure he's that much better than Marshall, if he is at all. Their stats for their personal best years in the Forward line for quick similar. We're hoping the 2 birds in the bush are worth more than the 1 we have in hand.

Anyways, draft thread! So maybe I should stop here

The thing is Marshall is one hit from never playing football ever again. I didn't say a big hit either. Just a hit. IF he gets cleaned up, I will start praying for him. I hope I'm wrong but the evidence is mounting that he's on the edge of it and he would be dealing with his love of footy and the money, fame, comradeship versus having a serious brain injury that could become catastrophic for the young man.

The reason he is favoured is because we are in our premiership window and have a need for a tall forward who is ready to go next year and in our age demographic. It helps he is best mates with the captain but in the end, you choose who you supported as a kid, usually. Luko shores up 3rd tall which he is overqualified for. With him and Mitch, you are happy enough and just needing the contested marking gorilla forward. Enter Rat but he could be upgraded.

 

[philthy05]

Maybe my choice of words weren't accurate. Esava, Dixon and Georgiades are a better trio than Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades. There's reasons to that, some of which are mentioned in the Champion Data analysis below.

It’s absurd to claim that Dixon , Georgiades and esava works better off a 4 game stretch against 4 out of form / shit teams we beat where our forward line has looked as dysfunctional as it ever has bar the short spurt where our midfield went supanova and would have made Daniel stewert look good.

Remove the Sydney game and 3 of our last 4 wins have seen our kfs kick a combined 7 goals total from all kfs across all games.

I’m not sure in what world that is considered good.

At the moment our wins are entirely generated by our midfield dominance and halfbacks ball use.

 

[JakeNeadeFan]

It’s absurd to claim that Dixon , Georgiades and esava works better off a 4 game stretch against 4 out of form / shit teams we beat where our forward line has looked as dysfunctional as it ever has bar the short spurt where our midfield went supanova and would have made Daniel stewert look good.

Remove the Sydney game and 3 of our last 4 wins have seen our kfs kick a combined 7 goals total from all kfs across all games.

I’m not sure in what world that is considered good.

At the moment our wins are entirely generated by our midfield dominance and halfbacks ball use.

Do you remember when Marshall kicked 9 goals against the two worst, most shambolic teams in the competition and then has done literally nothing else of note the entire season?

 

[davesnothere]

Ball in had you have Ratugolea or Marshall having a shot at gaol to save your life?

I'd go Marshall.
Blindfolded I'd still go Marshall.

The concussion is a concern of course. I've no idea what we do about it.

 

[Acemanjam]

Ball in had you have Ratugolea or Marshall having a shot at gaol to save your life?

I'd go Marshall.
Blindfolded I'd still go Marshall.

The concussion is a concern of course. I've no idea what we do about it.

I think I would have a better shot in gaol with Rat watching my back, dude's massive.

 

[Addy23]

It’s absurd to claim that Dixon , Georgiades and esava works better off a 4 game stretch against 4 out of form / shit teams we beat where our forward line has looked as dysfunctional as it ever has bar the short spurt where our midfield went supanova and would have made Daniel stewert look good.

Remove the Sydney game and 3 of our last 4 wins have seen our kfs kick a combined 7 goals total from all kfs across all games.

I’m not sure in what world that is considered good.

At the moment our wins are entirely generated by our midfield dominance and halfbacks ball use.

What you're missing here is the gameplan Ken plays. It's not to score off centre bounce clearance. It's to lock it inside 50 and score off stoppage or a tall crashes the pack and a small crumbs and score. Dixon and Esava do not need to score bags for us to win games. If we get 3 goals out of Esava + Dixon a game and they continue to bring the ball to ground and compete, that's all we need.

It's quite simple to look at goals and say it ain't working for those 2. It's far beyond that, it's not about what their output is, it's about whether they make the output around them better which they have.

Are Esava and Dixon my first choice KPFs in the comp? No, but they are he right type we need in that forward line and that's all we have to work with atm.

 

[philthy05]

What you're missing here is the gameplan Ken plays. It's not to score off centre bounce clearance. It's to lock it inside 50 and score off stoppage or a tall crashes the pack and a small crumbs and score. Dixon and Esava do not need to score bags for us to win games. If we get 3 goals out of Esava + Dixon a game and they continue to bring the ball to ground and compete, that's all we need.

It's quite simple to look at goals and say it ain't working for those 2. It's far beyond that, it's not about what their output is, it's about whether they make the output around them better which they have.

Are Esava and Dixon my first choice KPFs in the comp? No, but they are he right type we need in that forward line and that's all we have to work with atm.

Yes I’m familiar with Ken’s gameplan, but you’ve shown nothing to backup your claims this group is a more successful forward group without Todd other than vibes.

Besides the fact they’ve kicked less goals outside of the once in a decade Sydney game where our midfield went ballistic , 3 of our last 4 wins average below our normal average for the year. . So that would clearly say that they’re not creating more goals yeah?

 

[Powerade 08]

You and elscorcho have no idea, thats just how it is.

Here is your homework for the week. You need to rewatch the Port v Melbourne game and write a 800 word essay on why you are wrong about the Dixon - Rat combo.

Ratugolea 5 marks on the lead, more than Marshall has ever had in a game. and one of the best 1v1 contest win rates in the AFL.

 

[ClintEastwood]

This thread title made me laugh. Then cry a bit.

 

[ClintEastwood]

You and elscorcho have no idea, thats just how it is.

Here is your homework for the week. You need to rewatch the Port v Melbourne game and write a 800 word essay on why you are wrong about the Dixon - Rat combo.

Ratugolea 5 marks on the lead, more than Marshall has ever had in a game. and one of the best 1v1 contest win rates in the AFL.

#MTA - Marshall Tragics Anonymous

 

[Daylight2nd]

Yes I’m familiar with Ken’s gameplan, but you’ve shown nothing to backup your claims this group is a more successful forward group without Todd other than vibes.

Besides the fact they’ve kicked less goals outside of the once in a decade Sydney game where our midfield went ballistic , 3 of our last 4 wins average below our normal average for the year. . So that would clearly say that they’re not creating more goals yeah?

Do you think it's just a coincidence we've been winning games against opposition we've previously been losing too? We've gotta play Esava somewhere. Backline has been better without him. Win/Win. Marshall hasn't been missed. I'm enjoying the ride while it lasts

 

[philthy05]

You and elscorcho have no idea, thats just how it is.

Here is your homework for the week. You need to rewatch the Port v Melbourne game and write a 800 word essay on why you are wrong about the Dixon - Rat combo.

Ratugolea 5 marks on the lead, more than Marshall has ever had in a game. and one of the best 1v1 contest win rates in the AFL.

You’re become a caricature

Firstly , if Todd had a 9d 6 mark 0 contested mark 0 goal game you would be calling for him to be shot. Hell, that’s exactly what you’ve done many times. But here you’re hailing a performance like that.

Secondly, what on earth are you talking about with Sav’s marks in that game? It was a 6 mark 0 contested mark game and you’re holding it up as some unattainable feat for Todd, Todd had a 9m , 10m and 11m mark game this season alone , a season he’s being canned as being shithouse.

I can’t find access to marks on the lead but I’m calling bullshit on that. Feel free to show us where you find the stats that say Sav had 5 marks on the lead in a 6 mark game against Melbourne. Show us where you’ve discovered that Todd has never had that many marks on the lead.

I’m calling bullshit.

 

[Powerade 08]

You’re become a caricature

Firstly , if Todd had a 9d 6 mark 0 contested mark 0 goal game you would be calling for him to be shot. Hell, that’s exactly what you’ve done many times. But here you’re hailing a performance like that.

Secondly, what on earth are you talking about with Sav’s marks in that game? It was a 6 mark 0 contested mark game and you’re holding it up as some unattainable feat for Todd, Todd had a 9m , 10m and 11m mark game this season alone , a season he’s being canned as being shithouse.

I can’t find access to marks on the lead but I’m calling bullshit on that. Feel free to show us where you find the stats that say Sav had 5 marks on the lead in a 6 mark game against Melbourne. Show us where you’ve discovered that Todd has never had that many marks on the lead.

I’m calling bullshit.

Esava Ratugolea 5 MOL (Marks On Lead) v Melbourne. Marshall career best 4.

800 words. due Friday.

 

[JimmyBC]

The dog ate my homework mate

 

[Schulzenfest]

You and elscorcho have no idea, thats just how it is.

Here is your homework for the week. You need to rewatch the Port v Melbourne game and write a 800 word essay on why you are wrong about the Dixon - Rat combo.

Ratugolea 5 marks on the lead, more than Marshall has ever had in a game. and one of the best 1v1 contest win rates in the AFL.

Thanks for the lecture from Bigfooty's finest mind on our forward line.

Sidenote, oh oracle who is definitely very smart and definitely has the right to tell other people they have no idea, do you think we've missed your favourite player McEntee's defensive pressure and playing his role since he's been missing from the side? Before you answer, please note that we're 6-6 and 96.8% when he plays this year and 9-1 and 140.5% when he doesn't. Thanks in advance.

 

[OneGreatClub]

What you're missing here is the gameplan Ken plays. It's not to score off centre bounce clearance. It's to lock it inside 50 and score off stoppage or a tall crashes the pack and a small crumbs and score. Dixon and Esava do not need to score bags for us to win games. If we get 3 goals out of Esava + Dixon a game and they continue to bring the ball to ground and compete, that's all we need.

It's quite simple to look at goals and say it ain't working for those 2. It's far beyond that, it's not about what their output is, it's about whether they make the output around them better which they have.

Are Esava and Dixon my first choice KPFs in the comp? No, but they are he right type we need in that forward line and that's all we have to work with atm.

But…when Ken is gone…we need to think forward.

 

[Addy23]

You’re become a caricature

Firstly , if Todd had a 9d 6 mark 0 contested mark 0 goal game you would be calling for him to be shot. Hell, that’s exactly what you’ve done many times. But here you’re hailing a performance like that.

Secondly, what on earth are you talking about with Sav’s marks in that game? It was a 6 mark 0 contested mark game and you’re holding it up as some unattainable feat for Todd, Todd had a 9m , 10m and 11m mark game this season alone , a season he’s being canned as being shithouse.

I can’t find access to marks on the lead but I’m calling bullshit on that. Feel free to show us where you find the stats that say Sav had 5 marks on the lead in a 6 mark game against Melbourne. Show us where you’ve discovered that Todd has never had that many marks on the lead.

I’m calling bullshit.

Todd Marshall is a very good player when he's injury free. I've gone to bat for him here and everywhere before. Great forward craft, accurate kick both for goal and field, high football IQ and very good off the ball. You could have Esava and Dixon playing alongside Marshall, and Todd could have the same impact as Georgiades if he stays fit.

My point isn't that Esava is a better overall player than Marshall. My point is he's a better fit for Ken's plan. The one strength Esava has is to not be outmarked, which unfortunately is one of Todd's biggest weakness. At the very least, Esava most of the time brings it to ground and provides repeat efforts to tackle

What do you do with Marshall? Play to his strengths and get him to replace Houston down back. His elite field kicking and football IQ can be used there, minimal defensive accountability because Houston is an attacking HB and Marshall wouldn't be playing as a 3rd tall. No one else would come close to Houston's kicking imo (leaving Butters, Rozee and JHF out of this because we cannot get them out of midfield).

 

[Addy23]

But…when Ken is gone…we need to think forward.

100% agree, but unfortunately, while Ken is here, you have to set up in way that suits his gameplan.

When Ken is gone, you may well see a very different forward line set up that Todd would be in because of a different ball movement. I am not saying we should trade Todd. But for me, either Todd plays in Houston's role in the finals or he provides a tactical point of difference of the bench (neither will happen btw that's just what I'd do). I am not starting him up forward, as much as I like Todd.

 

[Powerade 08]

Thanks for the lecture from Bigfooty's finest mind on our forward line.

Sidenote, oh oracle who is definitely very smart and definitely has the right to tell other people they have no idea, do you think we've missed your favourite player McEntee's defensive pressure and playing his role since he's been missing from the side? Before you answer, please note that we're 6-6 and 96.8% when he plays this year and 9-1 and 140.5% when he doesn't. Thanks in advance.

Willie Rioli coming back is the main reason our small forwards look better. You can pretend its the deckchair shuffling of McEntee/Evans/Narkle if you want. I wont stop you.

As an aside

Rioli averaging 2 goals per game at AO this year (20 of his 26 goals)

0 goals at the MCG from 3 games

Not 100% sure how the finals work but I don't think we get another practice run at the G before the GF.

 

[philthy05]

The one strength Esava has is to not be outmarked, which unfortunately is one of Todd's biggest weakness. At the very least, Esava most of the time brings it to ground and provides repeat efforts to tackle

The idea Todd gets outmarked is a complete furphy. bzt (or any other defender we’ve played) takes many more marks on their (often much higher rated kf than Todd) than Todd’s opponents do on him. He’s not getting regularly outmarked. Todds not a perfect player, but people who criticise him as a player can’t even get simple facts straight. He doesn’t pull down as many contested marks as anyone would like , but he’s not getting outmarked very often at all.

 

[philthy05]

View attachment 2086966

Esava Ratugolea 5 MOL (Marks On Lead) v Melbourne. Marshall career best 4.

800 words. due Friday.

Where have you found Todd’s career marks on the lead? do you also have access to Dixon’s and Mitch’s out of curiosity?


As I said, Todd’s taken 9,10, and 11 mark games this year , how the **** you’re holding up esavas 9d 6 m 0goal game as a feat Todd could never match is mind boggling.

 

[Addy23]

The idea Todd gets outmarked is a complete furphy. bzt (or any other defender we’ve played) takes many more marks on their (often much higher rated kf than Todd) than Todd’s opponents do on him. He’s not getting regularly outmarked. Todds not a perfect player, but people who criticise him as a player can’t even get simple facts straight. He doesn’t pull down as many contested marks as anyone would like , but he’s not getting outmarked very often at all.

I never said Todd gets regularly outmarked. He gets outmarked more often than Esava does. And Todd's repeat efforts to tackle is not at the same level as Todd. A confident, injury free Todd Marshall is a well-rounded and complete player, whose biggest weakness is contesting in the air. But this weakness is not even as bad, it's just Esava provides stronger looks. Which is exactly why a move to HB to replace Houston is the perfect role for Todd.

Btw there's been no argument made here as to why Marshall/Georgiades and of Dixon or Esava is a better forward line than Dixon/Esava and one of Georgiades or Marshall. Is your point that our forward line structure doesn't matter because it's all midfield and HB doing the damage? Or that you just think Esava's move to the forward line coinciding with upturn in forward half efficiency is a myth?

I'm trying to have a debate of which players suit our forward structure and entries better under Ken whereas it sounds like you're just debating which player is better?

FWIW, if we change the coach tomorrow, I'd be starting with a forward line of Esava, Marshall and Georgiades.

 

[Powerade 08]

Where have you found Todd’s career marks on the lead? do you also have access to Dixon’s and Mitch’s out of curiosity?


As I said, Todd’s taken 9,10, and 11 mark games this year , how the **** you’re holding up esavas 9d 6 m 0goal game as a feat Todd could never match is mind boggling.

Wheelo ratings is the best site for stats

But you don't need it because the AFL app has video highlights for each game/player.