I'm always intrigued by the exact meaning of this phrase and what it entails.
A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!
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I'm always intrigued by the exact meaning of this phrase and what it entails.
That is the most crass statement I've ever seen.
The WAFL and SANFL existed prior to the the AFL. They WERE independent and certainly did not chose to be independent.
The WAFL and SANFL chose to CONTINUE to be independent of the AFL.
The WAFL and SANFL were not happy with the AFL grassroots funding model (basically nonexistant)
The AFL DOES NOT EXIST WITHOUT THE PLAYERS COMING THROUGH THE WAFL AND SANFL.
I don't believe the AFL would support the WWAFL financially.
Well it means investing in junior programs. You hear from NSW how the Waratah shield the public schoolboy comp has really died off.
Last time money was just spent on the top end of the game they neglected the grass roots as the NRL and AFL put money into that area and they game died off because of that
Yes and 'junior programs' can be diverse as they are ineffectual and sometimes necessarily individual.
For example the AFL invests differently in grassroots from the WAFL and SANFL because the situations are different.
Are R.A. going to try to restore certain institutions or invest in new areas?
Well without being overly familiar with the junior set ups in NSW and Qld I would say they would look to restore the game to what it was there while in WA and Vic they would look to help accelerate the growth of the game at a junior level. I agree different approach’s are needed
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I mean aside from the fact that 50% of recruitment comes from victoria. And doubtless elsewhere as well. To say they wouldnt exist without WAFL and SANFL is a stretch.
Never mind that the league gives several million a year to the WAFC and SANFl for development purposes.
OK. The AFL wouldn't exist in the same form without WAFL and SANFL.
Which only emphasizes that the AFL without the WAFL and SANFL would be the VFL again.
In really simple terms R.A. would be trying to emulate the AFL's efforts something the NRL hasn't been able to achieve.
Restoring the game to what it was has nothing to do with the AFL. Maybe pre 1908 you could argue the game was as strong as Australian football but it has been a distant third for the contact footy codes for 100 years now.
It’s about being a sustainable niche sport. Can they do that? Maybe
I probably should have made it more clear.
In really simple terms R.A. would be trying to emulate the AFL's efforts w.r.t. grassroots something the NRL hasn't been able to achieve.
I would argue the opposite. Australian Football was strong in Victoria, S.A., W.A. and competitive in NSW and Qld.
The W.A.F.A. started in 1901, NSWFL 1903, QAFL 1904, SANFL 1877, VFA 1877, TFL 1879
Rugby league started in 1908 and immediately chewed into rugby support.
I agree and they will have to make choices again.
Since rugby power is concentrated it will be difficult to make decisions not coloured in that direction.
BringBackTorps
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1. This is a long article discussing, primarily, the demise of the annual City vs. Country RL match in NSW (comprising, originally, from 1911 the top NSWRL Sydney- born players, vs. NSW regional & rural-born players; then, from the c. 1998- 2017, NRL's best New South Welshmen).
It briefly refers to country male contact RL nos.
"Every few months there's a story about how bush footy is on it's knees, how it's withering on the vine and being forgotten. You can set your watch to them arriving. There's a lot of truth in most of them, because money is tight and a lot of country towns are declining and it's harder to put a team together than it used to be".
www.abc.net.au
(Warning: Long Read)
Whilst there are many MSM articles lamenting the declining [contact male] RL nos. in regional & rural NSW in the last 10 years, much fewer specifically cite AF as being the major contributing factor.
The article author, J. Tuxworth, however, states
(Former NRL coach)"Griffin, in Wagga to mentor local coaches on Tuesday night, admitted he was taken aback by the prevalence of Australian Rules in the region and said rugby league must do everything possible to win "a real battle against codes".
A, Griffin said
"Something that shocked me a little was the amount of AFL in this part of NSW. To see it right here in front of your face when you drive into town, it's a real battle of codes, so the more we can do down here the better".
www.dailyadvertiser.com.au
2.
The Channel 0/10 telecasts of VFA matches on Sundays generally had the TV-telecast cameras in the Outer (on temporary, high scaffolding, including a roof), panning back & opposite, to the much bigger & more animated crowds in the grandstand & standing room areas (where the food & drinks/bars canteens, & toilets etc. were located).
The exceptions were when heavy rain, or strong winds, were expected; or the necessary cabling/power to the Outer to difficult to install.
For the viewers at home watching the big & animated crowds on TV, it greatly succeeded in presenting the VFA as an exciting & successful comp. They wisely recognised the "optics" were far superior for TV ratings etc., than panning over to the smaller crowds in the Outer. "Sell The Sizzle, Not Just The Sausage".
One, of course, cannot pan cameras directly into the sun, on sunny days- far too much glare for the TV viewers.
For sunny matches, a horizontal "sun visor" was placed on top of the camera- this prevented the sun shining directly on the lens (unless a kick went particularly high, then there would be glare for a second).
GWS afternoon home games should also have their cameras in the Outer- all their members, & biggest crowd, are on the main grandstand side.
The camera sun visor would not be necessary for GWS night home games- & probably, also, twilght (Cameras positioned higher up in the Outer stands)
All AFLW games should adopt, also, this old VFA policy- simply good marketing- "a crowd attracts a crowd".
3. Since there is some indulging in VFA nostalgia, almost 50 years to the day, this 28.5.1972 VFA Round attracted (a well above average) 31500 fans!
First Division only!
Oh, what AF, & the GR in Victoria, have lost. The VFL wanted more $- & in 1981 would not allow the VFA to continue with its Sunday games' exclusivity.
The VFA was a big, prestigious comp., its Rules (strategically) created much more free-flowing, & strongly attacking, footy, cf the then VFL.
The VFA, very deliberately, strongly connected to true "suburban tribalism". (Thuggery, though, was bad for players' health, & "normalised" it in GR AF; & for AF generally).
"VFA results from games played 50 years ago today.
28th of May 1972.
Source The Age newspaper"
58 comments
11 shares
www.facebook.com
(Scroll to 28.5.22)
Also, a big shout-out to all who attended today the "VFA Celebrating The Halcyon Days" function & lunch at Sandown Racecourse.
It briefly refers to country male contact RL nos.
"Every few months there's a story about how bush footy is on it's knees, how it's withering on the vine and being forgotten. You can set your watch to them arriving. There's a lot of truth in most of them, because money is tight and a lot of country towns are declining and it's harder to put a team together than it used to be".
The life and death of City v Country — how the legacy of league's much loved rep game lives on
It helped launch careers both on and off the field and left an indelible mark on all who played in it. So what happened to the City v Country game, and what legacy has it left behind? Nick Campton reports.
www.abc.net.au
Whilst there are many MSM articles lamenting the declining [contact male] RL nos. in regional & rural NSW in the last 10 years, much fewer specifically cite AF as being the major contributing factor.
The article author, J. Tuxworth, however, states
(Former NRL coach)"Griffin, in Wagga to mentor local coaches on Tuesday night, admitted he was taken aback by the prevalence of Australian Rules in the region and said rugby league must do everything possible to win "a real battle against codes".
A, Griffin said
"Something that shocked me a little was the amount of AFL in this part of NSW. To see it right here in front of your face when you drive into town, it's a real battle of codes, so the more we can do down here the better".
Griffin calls for NRL, broadcasters to work together to bring more games to bush
Anthony Griffin was shocked by AFL's Wagga presence, and wants more NRL games in bush
2.
This is not correct.
The Channel 0/10 telecasts of VFA matches on Sundays generally had the TV-telecast cameras in the Outer (on temporary, high scaffolding, including a roof), panning back & opposite, to the much bigger & more animated crowds in the grandstand & standing room areas (where the food & drinks/bars canteens, & toilets etc. were located).
The exceptions were when heavy rain, or strong winds, were expected; or the necessary cabling/power to the Outer to difficult to install.
For the viewers at home watching the big & animated crowds on TV, it greatly succeeded in presenting the VFA as an exciting & successful comp. They wisely recognised the "optics" were far superior for TV ratings etc., than panning over to the smaller crowds in the Outer. "Sell The Sizzle, Not Just The Sausage".
One, of course, cannot pan cameras directly into the sun, on sunny days- far too much glare for the TV viewers.
For sunny matches, a horizontal "sun visor" was placed on top of the camera- this prevented the sun shining directly on the lens (unless a kick went particularly high, then there would be glare for a second).
GWS afternoon home games should also have their cameras in the Outer- all their members, & biggest crowd, are on the main grandstand side.
The camera sun visor would not be necessary for GWS night home games- & probably, also, twilght (Cameras positioned higher up in the Outer stands)
All AFLW games should adopt, also, this old VFA policy- simply good marketing- "a crowd attracts a crowd".
3. Since there is some indulging in VFA nostalgia, almost 50 years to the day, this 28.5.1972 VFA Round attracted (a well above average) 31500 fans!
First Division only!
Oh, what AF, & the GR in Victoria, have lost. The VFL wanted more $- & in 1981 would not allow the VFA to continue with its Sunday games' exclusivity.
The VFA was a big, prestigious comp., its Rules (strategically) created much more free-flowing, & strongly attacking, footy, cf the then VFL.
The VFA, very deliberately, strongly connected to true "suburban tribalism". (Thuggery, though, was bad for players' health, & "normalised" it in GR AF; & for AF generally).
"VFA results from games played 50 years ago today.
28th of May 1972.
Source The Age newspaper"
58 comments
11 shares
VFA Footy The Halcyon Days | Melbourne VIC
VFA Footy The Halcyon Days, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. 10,665 likes · 520 talking about this. In 2011 this VFA page was the first footy comp history page on FB to give tributes to a past league.
www.facebook.com
Also, a big shout-out to all who attended today the "VFA Celebrating The Halcyon Days" function & lunch at Sandown Racecourse.
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Without the context being quoted this statement is true for all codes.
You would think NSW is better insulaled with smaller team number requirements for rugby and on average larger towns.
Anyone surprised by the the popularity of AFL in Wagga Wagga must have had his head in the sand.
Just google "famous AFL players from Wagga Wagga".
BringBackTorps
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1. The NSW govt. has announced, on 15.5.22, a $15m upgrade for Tom Wills Oval, which adjoins Giants Stadium.
Article states
"The funding will see an upgrade of Tom Wills Oval, the GIANTS’ training ground, with a view to establishing a dedicated AFLW match venue for Sydney, while also providing a vitally important second-tier facility that will enhance pathways for young male and female athletes.
The upgrade includes the installation of lighting facilities that will ensure the GIANTS’ AFLW program can meet the high performance and training requirements standard to an AFLW team.
GIANTS Chief Executive Officer David Matthews thanked the NSW Government for investing in a project that is central to the development of female and community pathway opportunities.
“This is a significant announcement for our football club and for women’s football in New South Wales,” Mr Matthews said.
www.gwsgiants.com.au
GWS' AFLW team, & its profile, & GR female AF in WS (&, hopefully, Riverina etc. for elite females), will benefit greatly from this big upgrade.
2.
(A lower % decline, cf RL, has also been experienced for GR AF club comp. nos. in many rural & small regional areas of Vic., WA, SA, & Tas.- NT, less impacted).
The crisis in GR male club nos. for RL, however, cannot simply be ascribed due to demographic & economic decline- because these declining nos. have also been occurring in medium & larger NSW regional towns (as listed in many links earlier in this Thread).
The male GR contact RL decline is happening everywhere in NSW, inc. big regional towns; & even in Wollongong, Newcastle/Hunter, & Sydney areas- which are having strong population growth.
Ditto, the large ACT, & Queanbeyan areas- but GR club & school AF nos. having strong growth there since c. 2012!
Conversely, no AF experts ever cite local GR RL as a challenge, or threat, to GR AF in Vic., WA, SA, Tas., or NT regional & rural areas (nor Metro)!
Article states
"The funding will see an upgrade of Tom Wills Oval, the GIANTS’ training ground, with a view to establishing a dedicated AFLW match venue for Sydney, while also providing a vitally important second-tier facility that will enhance pathways for young male and female athletes.
The upgrade includes the installation of lighting facilities that will ensure the GIANTS’ AFLW program can meet the high performance and training requirements standard to an AFLW team.
GIANTS Chief Executive Officer David Matthews thanked the NSW Government for investing in a project that is central to the development of female and community pathway opportunities.
“This is a significant announcement for our football club and for women’s football in New South Wales,” Mr Matthews said.
NSW Government Supports GIANTS Facility Upgrade
The NSW Government have made a $15 million commitment towards securing the future of community and women’s football in NSW.
GWS' AFLW team, & its profile, & GR female AF in WS (&, hopefully, Riverina etc. for elite females), will benefit greatly from this big upgrade.
2.
Yes, critical mass is an important factor, when examining the major decline in GR male contact RL nos. in rural & regional NSW.
(A lower % decline, cf RL, has also been experienced for GR AF club comp. nos. in many rural & small regional areas of Vic., WA, SA, & Tas.- NT, less impacted).
The crisis in GR male club nos. for RL, however, cannot simply be ascribed due to demographic & economic decline- because these declining nos. have also been occurring in medium & larger NSW regional towns (as listed in many links earlier in this Thread).
The male GR contact RL decline is happening everywhere in NSW, inc. big regional towns; & even in Wollongong, Newcastle/Hunter, & Sydney areas- which are having strong population growth.
Ditto, the large ACT, & Queanbeyan areas- but GR club & school AF nos. having strong growth there since c. 2012!
Yes- & some RL experts have specifically mentioned, in recent years, that local GR AF is becoming a challenge, or threat, to (male) GR RL in some NSW regional & rural areas.
Conversely, no AF experts ever cite local GR RL as a challenge, or threat, to GR AF in Vic., WA, SA, Tas., or NT regional & rural areas (nor Metro)!
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Griffin must have never ventured past Yass (or Bateman’s Bay) before. Nothing has changed - Riverina (& far South Coast) has alway been AFL territory (League also popular as well), just like anywhere in NSW that is closer to Melbourne or Adelaide than Sydney (e.g. Broken Hill).
Where in fact the correct terminology would be that Australian Football is becoming an alternative to rugby league.
Strange that the same people never said soccer was a threat to rugby league.
Rugby league is indeed an alternative to Australian Football in those areas.
Another little part of the jigsaw puzzle in place.
BringBackTorps
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1. The AFL has launched "Quickkick", an Australia-wide initiative, for women born between 1930(!) -1987, who want to learn the skills of AF. It is designed to be an entry-level program for women who may later wish to play female comp. AF.
"There has already been a large take up across the country, with more than 2,000 people signing up within days of QuickKick’s launch. Among them is a multiple Grand Slam tennis champion and a 73-year-old!.
Of the current registered participants, one third are from NSW or Queensland... (my emphases)".
(As c. 700 women, "within days of Quickkick's launch", joined from NSW & Qld., this is a very good result for non-heartland States, in such a short period.
Interestingly, in Sydney, WS & SS are the only clinics established- not NS, ES, North WS, & Inner WS, where GR AF is far stronger. Newcastle & Wollongong, where AF is only a niche sport, were also chosen).
aflnswact.com.au
2.
This is incorrect, re GR adult female club comp. nos in WA (Official stats for general AF "participants", community, one-off events etc. have very little significance, cf club & school comp. nos., & Auskick).
On a per capita basis since 2017, WA has performed very poorly in GR female club nos., cf Vic. & Qld. (& Qld. is not an heartland State!).
"There has already been a large take up across the country, with more than 2,000 people signing up within days of QuickKick’s launch. Among them is a multiple Grand Slam tennis champion and a 73-year-old!.
Of the current registered participants, one third are from NSW or Queensland... (my emphases)".
(As c. 700 women, "within days of Quickkick's launch", joined from NSW & Qld., this is a very good result for non-heartland States, in such a short period.
Interestingly, in Sydney, WS & SS are the only clinics established- not NS, ES, North WS, & Inner WS, where GR AF is far stronger. Newcastle & Wollongong, where AF is only a niche sport, were also chosen).
AFL Masters launches program for women over 35 - AFL NSW / ACT
If you’re 35-year-old woman or older, who’s never played footy but always yearned for the opportunity, this could be your chance to get out on the park! AFL Masters has launched QuickKick, an entry level program held fortnightly in all…Read more ›
aflnswact.com.au
2.
This is incorrect, re GR adult female club comp. nos in WA (Official stats for general AF "participants", community, one-off events etc. have very little significance, cf club & school comp. nos., & Auskick).
On a per capita basis since 2017, WA has performed very poorly in GR female club nos., cf Vic. & Qld. (& Qld. is not an heartland State!).
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Gee not sure there is much future in the game for women born in 1930.1. The AFL has launched "Quickkick", an Australia-wide initiative, for women born between 1930(!) -1987, who want to learn the skills of AF. It is designed to be an entry-level program for women who may later wish to play female comp. AF.
"There has already been a large take up across the country, with more than 2,000 people signing up within days of QuickKick’s launch. Among them is a multiple Grand Slam tennis champion and a 73-year-old!".
Of the current registered participants, one third are from NSW or Queensland... (my emphases)".
(As c. 700 women, "within days of Quickkick's launch", joined from NSW & Qld., this is a very good result for non-heartland States in such a short period.
Interestingly, in Sydney, WS & SS are the only clinics established- not NS, ES, North WS, & Inner WS, where GR AF is far stronger. Newcastle & Wollongong, where AF is only a niche sport, were also chosen).
AFL Masters launches program for women over 35 - AFL NSW / ACT
If you’re 35-year-old woman or older, who’s never played footy but always yearned for the opportunity, this could be your chance to get out on the park! AFL Masters has launched QuickKick, an entry level program held fortnightly in all…Read more ›
2.
This is incorrect, re GR adult female club comp. nos in WA (Official stats for general AF "participants"", community, one-off events have very little significance, cf club nos.).
On a per capita basis since 2017, WA has performed very poorly in GR female club nos., cf Vic. & Qld. (& Qld. is not an heartland State!).
Cubs2Lions
Norm Smith Medallist
Don’t know, these girls know still play some sport, how about they enter the upcoming AFLW draft for next season
Don’t know, these girls know still play some sport, how about they enter the upcoming draft for this year
Still 12 years younger
Cubs2Lions
Norm Smith Medallist
Some of the girls were actually born, prior to 1930.
Not sure you have been able to refer to anyone born in the 20s as a girl for 50 years
This is good but it must be a very tiny piece of the jigsaw. Hardly hang-your-your-hat-on stuff.
correct according to AFL statistics "W.A. is only marginallybehind Victoria and Queensland for female football competition."
You want to post your references for a change or are you shooting from the hip as usual?
BringBackTorps
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1. "Battlers For Bush Footy" was established solely by GR fans on facebook in August 2021, to promote only regional & rural GR RL in NSW (ie not Sydney, Newcastle, & Wollongong comps.). It mainly reports on GR RL fixtures & results, in contact & tag comps.; & also important GR milestones, events etc.
It states
To achieve this we endeavour to gain a seat at a negotiating table with the New South Wales Rugby Leabue (NSWRL) and discuss the future of the game. The aim of this is to bring a country perspective to the game's state powerbrokers on behalf of all regional clubs to ensure that the best interests of the country game are represented in decision making processes".
smitht40.wixsite.com
(scroll to "About").
On 30.4.22, it posted this graphic
"THIS IS SHOCKING!!! - PLEASE SHARE
This map details all of the Rugby League and AFL clubs in Country NSW (excludes Sydney, Wollongong & Newcastle). Red represents AFL while blue represents Rugby League clubs. There are also two lines: the one to the right is Ian Turner's Barassi Line, which was created in 1978 to establish a boundary between Rugby League and Australian Rules territory.
The one to the left is perhaps a more accurate depiction, as the Murrumbidgee region (Griffith & surrounds) is rugby league heartland.
It is truly shocking to see the growth the enemy code has made in NSW. If we don't act now, our kids could be kicking and fumbling Sherrins instead of learning the teamwork and tactical play of our traditional game, the NSW game, rugby league.
So go play for your team, volunteer, or referee! Get involved, and support country rugby league.
STAND UP. FIGHT FOR OUR GAME. BE A BATTLER FOR BUSH FOOTY".
#battlersforbushfooty
www.facebook.com
(scroll 30.4.22)
I am unable to comment if it accurately represents the no. of RL clubs- but it has underrepresented the correct no. of AF clubs.
2.
The AFL provided very detailed official registrations up to 2019 inc.- but, since 2020 inc. & covid, its Annual Reports have given far less detailed nos.
I assume the change is due to covid wreaking havoc on so many comps., big reduction in Head Office staff nos. etc.
This is the AFL 2021 Annual Report (from March 2022), which again has limited stats.
Re Qld., it specifically referred to the high female (adult & jnr) GR club nos.: female club 25%, cf Qld. male club 75%.
" A 14 per cent increase in player registrations at all levels of community club football across Queensland surpassed the previous participation record established in 2019. Women and girls now comprise 25 per cent of all registered participants".
(see pg 82)
Until 2016 inc., the AFL reported, on many occasions, that Qld., amazingly, had the highest no. of female registered nos.
I recall that 3 years ago, the AFL reported that female comp. player nos. in Vic. were c. 40K+; which is much more than WA.
Several posters on BF said the WAFLW is struggling to produce a balanced, competitive comp.- partially due to weak adult comp. player nos.
It states
"Our Mission
Our Mission is to save rugby league in Regional New South Wales, which is crucial to the survival of both the sport and communities statewide. We aim to draw upon the rich history of the sport across the state and ensure the game can continue not only to survive but thrive well into the 21st century.To achieve this we endeavour to gain a seat at a negotiating table with the New South Wales Rugby Leabue (NSWRL) and discuss the future of the game. The aim of this is to bring a country perspective to the game's state powerbrokers on behalf of all regional clubs to ensure that the best interests of the country game are represented in decision making processes".
Home | Helping Hands
On 30.4.22, it posted this graphic
"THIS IS SHOCKING!!! - PLEASE SHARE
This map details all of the Rugby League and AFL clubs in Country NSW (excludes Sydney, Wollongong & Newcastle). Red represents AFL while blue represents Rugby League clubs. There are also two lines: the one to the right is Ian Turner's Barassi Line, which was created in 1978 to establish a boundary between Rugby League and Australian Rules territory.
The one to the left is perhaps a more accurate depiction, as the Murrumbidgee region (Griffith & surrounds) is rugby league heartland.
It is truly shocking to see the growth the enemy code has made in NSW. If we don't act now, our kids could be kicking and fumbling Sherrins instead of learning the teamwork and tactical play of our traditional game, the NSW game, rugby league.
So go play for your team, volunteer, or referee! Get involved, and support country rugby league.
STAND UP. FIGHT FOR OUR GAME. BE A BATTLER FOR BUSH FOOTY".
#battlersforbushfooty
Battlers For Bush Footy
Battlers For Bush Footy. 2,860 likes · 1,023 talking about this. Love local footy? We're an independent page covering the great game of rugby league in South West NSW and across the state!
www.facebook.com
I am unable to comment if it accurately represents the no. of RL clubs- but it has underrepresented the correct no. of AF clubs.
2.
My interest, as stated many times, is mainly in club & school comp. nos.- not general, & less meaningful, "participation" nos.
The AFL provided very detailed official registrations up to 2019 inc.- but, since 2020 inc. & covid, its Annual Reports have given far less detailed nos.
I assume the change is due to covid wreaking havoc on so many comps., big reduction in Head Office staff nos. etc.
This is the AFL 2021 Annual Report (from March 2022), which again has limited stats.
Re Qld., it specifically referred to the high female (adult & jnr) GR club nos.: female club 25%, cf Qld. male club 75%.
" A 14 per cent increase in player registrations at all levels of community club football across Queensland surpassed the previous participation record established in 2019. Women and girls now comprise 25 per cent of all registered participants".
(see pg 82)
Until 2016 inc., the AFL reported, on many occasions, that Qld., amazingly, had the highest no. of female registered nos.
I recall that 3 years ago, the AFL reported that female comp. player nos. in Vic. were c. 40K+; which is much more than WA.
Several posters on BF said the WAFLW is struggling to produce a balanced, competitive comp.- partially due to weak adult comp. player nos.
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Yes, so WTF are the quotes then ?
WTF is "much more". Stick to the quantative facts and cut the qualitative stuff.
You do realise that Victoria's population is a concentrated 6.7 million compared to W.A.'s disperse population of 2.8 million.
And you've never answered any of my questions with FACTS.
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