And not a national competition.
Of course. WA and SA have historic and strong competitions.
Also the WAFL and SANFL would have been told that the AFL reserves were being dismantled.
All AFL clubs run affiliations or feeder clubs.
A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!
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And not a national competition.
Of course. WA and SA have historic and strong competitions.
Also the WAFL and SANFL would have been told that the AFL reserves were being dismantled.
All AFL clubs run affiliations or feeder clubs.
- Apr 24, 2018
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Playing games in a state is completely different to having a full time club based there not that you would know coming from a state with two clubs you live in a bubble the afl spread of clubs around Australia is no better then the nbl or a league
Chose? They weren't allowed to. The league didn't have anywhere near as much cash as they do now and probably couldn't afford it.
Tell us something we don't know, but still,
the AFLt arguably has the best spread of any national competition, certainly in Australia.
The AFL plays in all states and major territories.
The NFL has 32 teams and there are 50 states.
The CFL has 9 teams in 7 of the 10 provinces and 3 territories.
BringBackTorps
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Your Broken Record again.
The GWS "potential" is more than justified, when the FACTS are examined:-
. the significant growth of GWS, as an AFL club, in the Sydney WS- an area once barren for AF.
. zero GWS members & crowds in 2011- over 30,100 members & average home crowds over 12,000 in 2019.
. the GWS Zone (in Sydney only) had only c.60 jnr AF Club teams in 2011- nearly triple that no. in 2019 (not including c.2000 club Auskick. nos. in WS in 2019).
. other parts of metro Sydney (ie Swans' Zone only, not WS) have increased from 210 jnr AF club teams in 2012, to 491 jnr club teams in 2019.
. the ABS current estimate is that Sydney will have a population of c. 8,500,000 by 2050.
The AFL is the self-appointed custodian of the game. It would be derelict in its duty if it did not have, by 2050, a 3rd team in Sydney- which is very influential, & is the wealthiest city in Aust. (both for individuals, & the majority of ASX Top 200 companies- who have their HQ's there. ALL MSM HQ's also).
There is actually very significant AF growth occurring in Sydney in recent years. This growth has been documented in this Thread with evidence & appropriate links, re regd. official participant nos. In contrast, you have not provided any evidence, nor any links, to rebut it.
This growth is almost certain to continue- it's not simply just "potential". For examples, refer to the upgrade to St Luke's oval in the inner WS below, where AF nos. are expected to double by 2030- local councils/govt etc. have confidence in AF's growth; also the problems Glebe Greyhounds are having with their booming nos.
Pip, a WSW & soccer fan (probably emigrated to Aust., as an adult, from the UK- his 2 favourite sports are soccer & cricket!), is trolling GWS in particular, & AF in general,. He is refusing to answer the questions I have put to him (despite several requests), in my posts #1722, 1789, 1917 & 1979 above.
Would you like to answer these questions?
Exactly.
Also very relevant is that RL & RU male contact competition nos. are in a long term decline in Sydney (& in other areas of NSW; & the ACT & Qld.).
RU has only a small no. of regd. jnr male contact competition nos. in WS.
(RL & RU female contact competition regd. nos., however, are having good growth).
Why are you still refusing to answer the questions I have put to you in my posts above #1722, 1789,1917, & 1979?
. Re St Luke's Oval, & Concord & Drummoyne jnr AF clubs, both in Sydney's inner WS. GWS has been very active!
"The home ground of the Concord Giants is set to receive a $1.4m for a major long-awaited upgrade to accomodate a doubling (my emphasis) in the number of Aussie Rules players by 2030".
"Concord Giants and Drummoyne Power numbers... more than double from 1590-3490 by 2030".
Daily Telegraph/Inner West Courier 2.5.19
(behind a paywall- can anyone open, & post here)
Drummoyne Power Blog 28.4.19
Re Canada Bay JFC, inner WS
"In 2015 Canada Bay Cannons fielded 5 youth teams- all boys' teams. Today, we have 14 Cannons teams- 5 of them are girls only. We are bursting at the seams".
(then go to blog dated 28.4.19)
EDIT:
. Re Glebe JFC, inner WS
Daily Telegraph/Inner West Courier 1.4.19 Digital Edition Headline.
"Glebe Greyhounds Lobby For Better Facilities at Jubilee Oval".
"Staggering growth in junior Aussie Rules...the skyrocketing number of girls playing Aussie Rules has led to a shortage of playing grounds. As a result, some kids have been turned away by Clubs, and are unable to play".
(behind a paywall- can anyone open, & post here)
For the 4 JFC's mentioned above (ie Concord, Drummoyne, Canada Bay & Glebe) showing major jnr AF growth, these are almost certainly outliers- a reason they have been covered in the MSM.
Undoubtedly, there would be some JFC's in Sydney that have had less than major growth, minor growth, basicly no growth- & even a few that have had a reduction in nos.
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Pippen94
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2030!? Now counting fictional numbers from a decade awayYour Broken Record again.
The GWS "potential" is more than justified, when the facts are examined:-
. the significant growth of GWS, as an AFL club, in the Sydeny WS- an area once barren for AF.
. zero GWS members & crowds in 2011- over 30,100 members & average home crowds over 12,000 in 2019.
. WS only had c.60 jnr AF Club teams in 2011- nearly triple that no. in 2019 (not including c.2000 club Auskick. nos. in 2019
. other parts of metro Sydney- Swans' Zone- have increased from 210 jnr AF club teams in 2012, to 491 jnr club teams in 2019.
There is actually very significant AF growth occurring in Sydney in recent years. This growth has been documented in this Thread with evidence & appropriate links, re regd. official participant nos. In contrast, you have not provided any evidence, nor any links, to rebut it.
This growth is almost certain to continue- it's not simply just "potential". For an example, refer to the upgrade to St Luke's oval in the inner WS below, wher AF nos. are expected to double by 2030- local councils/govt etc. have confidence in AF's growth.
Pip, who is trolling GWS in particular, & AF in general, is refusing to answer the questions I have put to him (despite several requests), in my posts #1722,1789,1917, & 1979 above.
Would you like to answer these questions?
Exactly.
Why are you still refusing to answer the questions I have put to you in my posts above #1722, 1789,1917, &1979?
RE St Luke's Oval & Concord & Drummoyne jnr AF clubs in Sydney's inner WS. GWS has been very active!
"The home ground of the Concord Giants is set to receive a $1.4m for a major long-awaited upgrade to accomodate a doubling (my emphasis) in the number of Aussie Rules players by 2030".
"Concord Giants and Drummoyne Power numbers more than double from 1590...than double from 1590-3490 by 2030".
Daily Telegraph/Inner West Courier 2.5.19
(behind a paywall- can anyone open, & post here)
Drummoyne Power Blog 28.4.19
RE Canada Bay JFC, inner WS
"In 2015 Canada Bay Cannons fielded 5 youth teams- all boys' teams. Today, we have 14 Cannons teams- 5 of them are girls only. We are bursting at the seams".
(then go to blog dated 28.4.19)
You know you can project numbers based on junior numbers now? i.e if your under 9's are double what they were 5 years ago it's fair to guess that your under 14's will be double in 5 years to what they are now.
Of course, but you'd expect the drop out rate to remain roughly the same. If it was 30% from under 9s 5 years ago to under 14s today, then you can reasonably apply the same drop out rate to today's under 9s to project numbers in 5 years.
Why wouldn't it be? Auskick is just under 8s (and under 7s and 6s)
- Apr 24, 2018
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What are you talking about Did you read the post I was replying to ? The poster stated that you need to be careful using the word potential when referring to a Tasmanian team crowds support members ect but the same poster has used potential on numerous other posts when referring to gws my point is if people can use the potential word when referring to gws why can’t it be used when referring to a potential Tasmanian team? I thought my last post was quite fair but it seems like you can’t even voice an opinion anymore on big footy with out being labeled a troll or broken record!Your Broken Record again.
The GWS "potential" is more than justified, when the facts are examined:-
. the significant growth of GWS, as an AFL club, in the Sydeny WS- an area once barren for AF.
. zero GWS members & crowds in 2011- over 30,100 members & average home crowds over 12,000 in 2019.
. WS only had c.60 jnr AF Club teams in 2011- nearly triple that no. in 2019 (not including c.2000 club Auskick. nos. in 2019
. other parts of metro Sydney- Swans' Zone- have increased from 210 jnr AF club teams in 2012, to 491 jnr club teams in 2019.
There is actually very significant AF growth occurring in Sydney in recent years. This growth has been documented in this Thread with evidence & appropriate links, re regd. official participant nos. In contrast, you have not provided any evidence, nor any links, to rebut it.
This growth is almost certain to continue- it's not simply just "potential". For an example, refer to the upgrade to St Luke's oval in the inner WS below, wher AF nos. are expected to double by 2030- local councils/govt etc. have confidence in AF's growth.
Pip, who is trolling GWS in particular, & AF in general, is refusing to answer the questions I have put to him (despite several requests), in my posts #1722,1789,1917, & 1979 above.
Would you like to answer these questions?
Exactly.
Why are you still refusing to answer the questions I have put to you in my posts above #1722, 1789,1917, &1979?
RE St Luke's Oval & Concord & Drummoyne jnr AF clubs in Sydney's inner WS. GWS has been very active!
"The home ground of the Concord Giants is set to receive a $1.4m for a major long-awaited upgrade to accomodate a doubling (my emphasis) in the number of Aussie Rules players by 2030".
"Concord Giants and Drummoyne Power numbers more than double from 1590...than double from 1590-3490 by 2030".
Daily Telegraph/Inner West Courier 2.5.19
(behind a paywall- can anyone open, & post here)
Drummoyne Power Blog 28.4.19
RE Canada Bay JFC, inner WS
"In 2015 Canada Bay Cannons fielded 5 youth teams- all boys' teams. Today, we have 14 Cannons teams- 5 of them are girls only. We are bursting at the seams".
(then go to blog dated 28.4.19)
Projection of statistics or interpolation is only as accurate as the statistics collated and the algorithm used.
Soccer has been the most guilty party with using statistics across multiple formats to project growth
producing a highly inflated figure of just how many people were playing the game.
AFL statistics improved markedly and soccer staistics decreased markedly when Auskick was introduced.
Other football codes do have junior variants but I don't think they have been anywhere near as successful.
As for the dropoff in participation with age it is reasonably similar across the codes.
There is dramatic drop off in high school years and with increasing loss with age before community football comes into play.
All codes are affected by this phenomenon, some more than others.
ABS figures show soccer is worst affected in the teenage to adult yers whilst AFL does the best of the football codes.
Back to the interpolation of participation figures. It isn't that difficult.
Any percentage changes in early years will be carried through to the junior years and right through to adult years.
There are external influences than can affect the exact percentages but a good football club president can
quite confidently forecast the fortunes of his club based on upcoming numbers and talent.
You mean
Well, everybody should know this. Most people would know it's not linear and most people would be able
accurately project future changes from recent changes.
In my particular instance we had almost 100% of the school boys playing Auskick. When we went to Modified Football, that grew to 100% with the few soccer boys switching over. We maintained those numbers through to teenage years. High school years are difficut to analyse, but most of the boys from our club continued playing football at the club or at high school or both. Some went on to play colts for Subiaco.
It was quite easy to see the demographics of suburb changing, producing more children and thus more football players.
Why are you worried about being labelled? We all think it. You're not fooling anybody. Just accept it and go with it.
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The possibility of the Giants playing in the USA is being raised again.
What the **** are you talking about?
Let's say 5 years ago you had 60 under 9s and this year you had 40 under 14s.
This year you had 120 under 9s. It's a reasonable projection to assume you'll have 80 under 14s in 5 years. That doesn't mean you will definitely have 80, but it's as good an estimate as you could come up with.
Most sports clubs would do this to look at future capacity and their ground requirements.
It's not ****ing rocket science.
Les Malone
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The possibility of the Giants playing in the USA is being raised again.
Stupid, let a Melbourne team sell their home game, NSW and ACT need all the AFL games they can get.
thegreig
Club Legend
The AFL will probably end up sending West Coast and making one of the smaller Vic clubs sell a home game, exactly like the China situation.
Colonial
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Again why the rant with no facts Pip.
Shouldnt you be preparing to not sell out your bay at Kogorah tomorrow with less than 1k? "Heartland".
Pippen94
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Rugby looks like it is coming again - what that means for afl in Sydney with only a niche in Eastern suburbs & northern beaches who knows?
www.smh.com.au
Shute for the stars: club rugby rights battle set to shape $1b TV deal
Sydney's humble Shute Shield has emerged as a major bargaining chip in rugby's tense broadcast rights negotiations, which appear to be at boiling point.
Colonial
Premium Gold
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Rugby looks like it is coming again - what that means for afl in Sydney with only a niche in Eastern suburbs & northern beaches who knows?
Shute for the stars: club rugby rights battle set to shape $1b TV deal
Sydney's humble Shute Shield has emerged as a major bargaining chip in rugby's tense broadcast rights negotiations, which appear to be at boiling point.
Only niche are the Wanderers
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
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I hope the AFL don't send any teams to China until next year at least with this Coronavirus very much about and will be for some time
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If its not under control by this time next year the whole world has a huge problem.
BringBackTorps
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1.
The decline in AF nos. from U12's is normal & predictible- as are the likely nos. all the way up to U17 level: just extrapolate from the big base, Club Auskick nos.
As usual, the troll is unwilling to defend his falsehoods.
In 2019, the no. of jnr AF club comp. teams in metro Sydney was 665; in 2012, the total was only 277. These figures don't include c. 6,000 5 y.o-8 y.o. kids in Club Auskick. The total no. of kids in jnr AF clubs in 2019 in Sydney is c. 20,000.
As has been mentioned numerous times before in this thread, the greatest growth in Sydney JFC's has been in Club Auskick, U9, U10, & U11's. It is automatic nos. will be much higher in 10 years.
The AFLW has provided a HUGE boost, in raw nos., to female GR AF in most parts of Australia since 2017.
The Swans (by far Sydney's main team) don't have an AFLW team, thus Sydney (& rest of NSW) has not had the full benefit of the AFLW rollercoaster/female GR boom. When it starts its own AFLW team by 2024, female GR AF nos. will experience their biggest boom in Sydney.
Male contact RL & RU nos. are in a long term significant decline in Sydney, & this is likely to continue. For males who enjoy the hardness/requirement for courage that contact sports demand, AF will benefit from this long term decline.
We can, therefore, predict reasonably confidently that, by 2030, there will be c. 35,000 kids (including Club Auskick) enrolled in jnr AF clubs in metro Sydney.
This is a major boost for the code, there will be critical mass of AF kids in all areas of Sydney (which provides another boost to participation, if a club is reasonably close to home, as are the other opposition AF clubs in the local comp.).
Sydney (& NSW) jnr & secondary school competition AF (govt. & private school, male & female) is also having significant growth- & is also likely to become much bigger. This will enhance the Sydney etc. AF club nos. growth to 2030.
Some time after 2030, the issue of a 3rd AFL club in Sydney will be considered by the AFL (but GWS would need to have regular, lockout games).
2. Foxtel has advised it is withdrawing from broadcasting RU in Australia at the end of 2020. Is this simply a negotiating tactic to undermine RA? Will Optus bid, & will it be the only bidder?
abc.net.au D. Mark 6.2.20
"Rugby Australia's 25 year marriage to Fox Sports looks to be over...Media analyst, Steven Allen from Fusion Strategy...said RA Has 'unrealistic expectations' on what Rugby is worth".
Allen also said, re RA " I think they're mad...they are not going to get anything like what they got last time".
www.abc.net.au
SMH R. Masters 7.2.20
Masters (like Allen, is not part of News Corp) is also pessimistic re RU's future & its 2020 Rights deal- expecting it to be much lower.
www.smh.com.au
If RA suffers a severe reduction in its Rights from 2021, it will be forced to reduce, significantly, professional player salaries- possibly, also, reduction of the current 4 Super Rugby teams to 3.
For very athletic young teenagers in NSW, ACT, & Qld, hoping for/pursuing a professional career in the AFL (where there are c. 760 player positions, if Tas. is also included)- & not RU-, is very likely to become far more common. "Many more, better paid jobs".
This will provide a strong boost for AF NSW, ACT, & Qld.
If RU has less prominence in the MSM, it will become less popular- & its male long term decline in competition nos. may accelerate.
If Foxtel departs, it is also likely to receive less coverage in the News Corp. media.
EDIT:
ABC Offsiders Sports program will soon be covering the topic of GR sports' participation in Australia.
Sydney is the most competitive city in the world, re its relatively high no. of sports having the ability/trying to exert a major GR influence. It will be interesting if this Offsiders program will specifically address the changing GR sports landscape in very influential Sydney, Australia's biggest city.
The NRL has been mentioning its desire to expand for c. 15 years, & a Perth team was regularly canvassed & prioritised by NRL officials & MSM RL journalists.
It is noteworthy, however, that ARLC Chairman, P. V'landys, in a recent Press Conference, vehemently opposed NRL expansion to Perth- "the NRL should not waste money on rusted-on AFL states"; & favours having a 2nd NRL team in Brisbane. He also previousy said he wants all Sydney NRL teams to remain- not to be relocated or merged.
Will the cashed-up NRL now adopt a "Fortress Sydney/Brisbane RL"strategy, & eschew expansion in non-RL areas?
And will Offsiders cover this recent change in strategic direction by the NRL; & its implications?
Correct. All persons who have been on jnr AF Club commitees, which are having strong growth in their Club's Auskick nos., know you can predict, fairly accurately, 5 & 10 years in advance what the total club competition player nos. then will be.
The decline in AF nos. from U12's is normal & predictible- as are the likely nos. all the way up to U17 level: just extrapolate from the big base, Club Auskick nos.
Exactly.
As usual, the troll is unwilling to defend his falsehoods.
In 2019, the no. of jnr AF club comp. teams in metro Sydney was 665; in 2012, the total was only 277. These figures don't include c. 6,000 5 y.o-8 y.o. kids in Club Auskick. The total no. of kids in jnr AF clubs in 2019 in Sydney is c. 20,000.
As has been mentioned numerous times before in this thread, the greatest growth in Sydney JFC's has been in Club Auskick, U9, U10, & U11's. It is automatic nos. will be much higher in 10 years.
The AFLW has provided a HUGE boost, in raw nos., to female GR AF in most parts of Australia since 2017.
The Swans (by far Sydney's main team) don't have an AFLW team, thus Sydney (& rest of NSW) has not had the full benefit of the AFLW rollercoaster/female GR boom. When it starts its own AFLW team by 2024, female GR AF nos. will experience their biggest boom in Sydney.
Male contact RL & RU nos. are in a long term significant decline in Sydney, & this is likely to continue. For males who enjoy the hardness/requirement for courage that contact sports demand, AF will benefit from this long term decline.
We can, therefore, predict reasonably confidently that, by 2030, there will be c. 35,000 kids (including Club Auskick) enrolled in jnr AF clubs in metro Sydney.
This is a major boost for the code, there will be critical mass of AF kids in all areas of Sydney (which provides another boost to participation, if a club is reasonably close to home, as are the other opposition AF clubs in the local comp.).
Sydney (& NSW) jnr & secondary school competition AF (govt. & private school, male & female) is also having significant growth- & is also likely to become much bigger. This will enhance the Sydney etc. AF club nos. growth to 2030.
Some time after 2030, the issue of a 3rd AFL club in Sydney will be considered by the AFL (but GWS would need to have regular, lockout games).
2. Foxtel has advised it is withdrawing from broadcasting RU in Australia at the end of 2020. Is this simply a negotiating tactic to undermine RA? Will Optus bid, & will it be the only bidder?
abc.net.au D. Mark 6.2.20
"Rugby Australia's 25 year marriage to Fox Sports looks to be over...Media analyst, Steven Allen from Fusion Strategy...said RA Has 'unrealistic expectations' on what Rugby is worth".
Allen also said, re RA " I think they're mad...they are not going to get anything like what they got last time".
'They're mad': Why has rugby walked away from its broadcast partner
Rugby Australia's 25-year marriage to Fox Sports looks to be over, with the code's bosses going to the market as early as this week in the hunt for a new broadcast partner.
www.abc.net.au
SMH R. Masters 7.2.20
Masters (like Allen, is not part of News Corp) is also pessimistic re RU's future & its 2020 Rights deal- expecting it to be much lower.
How rugby was drawn into race to the bottom of Australian sport
The eternal problem of both rugby and soccer is the belief that because everyone else in the world loves these codes, so should Australians.
If RA suffers a severe reduction in its Rights from 2021, it will be forced to reduce, significantly, professional player salaries- possibly, also, reduction of the current 4 Super Rugby teams to 3.
For very athletic young teenagers in NSW, ACT, & Qld, hoping for/pursuing a professional career in the AFL (where there are c. 760 player positions, if Tas. is also included)- & not RU-, is very likely to become far more common. "Many more, better paid jobs".
This will provide a strong boost for AF NSW, ACT, & Qld.
If RU has less prominence in the MSM, it will become less popular- & its male long term decline in competition nos. may accelerate.
If Foxtel departs, it is also likely to receive less coverage in the News Corp. media.
EDIT:
ABC Offsiders Sports program will soon be covering the topic of GR sports' participation in Australia.
Sydney is the most competitive city in the world, re its relatively high no. of sports having the ability/trying to exert a major GR influence. It will be interesting if this Offsiders program will specifically address the changing GR sports landscape in very influential Sydney, Australia's biggest city.
The NRL has been mentioning its desire to expand for c. 15 years, & a Perth team was regularly canvassed & prioritised by NRL officials & MSM RL journalists.
It is noteworthy, however, that ARLC Chairman, P. V'landys, in a recent Press Conference, vehemently opposed NRL expansion to Perth- "the NRL should not waste money on rusted-on AFL states"; & favours having a 2nd NRL team in Brisbane. He also previousy said he wants all Sydney NRL teams to remain- not to be relocated or merged.
Will the cashed-up NRL now adopt a "Fortress Sydney/Brisbane RL"strategy, & eschew expansion in non-RL areas?
And will Offsiders cover this recent change in strategic direction by the NRL; & its implications?
Last edited:
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