AAMI Stadium $5.5mill Lights Upgrade

[- PC -]

And if we don't build a new stadium we will never host the Commonwealth Games. End of story

And what will happen if we dont?

 

[KingsCrow]

And what will happen if we dont?

Means Tassie will get it.


And the rest of Australia will laugh at as even more, South Australians will leave in even BIGGER droves and we will lag even futher behind Australia in everything.


OR we could build a stadium. (I should be a doomsday preacher)

 

[beagle2]

And what will happen if we dont?

We will be a lot better off financially

 

[- PC -]

We will be a lot better off financially

But we will be laughed at

 

[beagle2]

But we will be laughed at

Ill still take the money I laugh at Vic commonwealth games lost hundreds of millions world swimming about 70mill the gp loses about 40 to 50 a year

 

[relapse]

that's fine. if you think the political priorities are as you say, then comeback run as an independent, and enjoy your new career as an MP.

I will however be shorting your chances at the bookies



quality of life issues, ignore the funding issues - which is always the downside of your political bent. People can't spend more than can afford, the tightening of monetary policy is designed to stop people spending more than they can afford, and save. the spending that tourists bring, is 180 degrees different in economic terms to the spending of locals. unless locals can start printing their own money, this idea doesn't hold.

lets build a new stadium so people can overspend, overheat the economy, increase inflation, and generally set about inducing an economic recession. the handout economics of the arts are not the same ones that govern the wider community.



no, you would have the incremental difference over what is already there. it is wrong, and simplistic to compare the influence of no team vs team (as in the green bay example) as opposed to team in stadium x and team in stadium y. you would have to also demonstrate that there is a wealth of untapped support, that could be unlocked through a new stadium.



no it's not going to happen because the incremental economics don't stack up. if the public really want it, and it can be done, and the benefits are all there - well why doesn't people power mobilise itself at the next state elections. we've already shown that we can elect a one-issue politician at the state level, with the crows support you'd be a shoe in. except for all the people who don't like footy, the people who would have to pay the taxes, the people who would have to lose out on public services, and the people who realised even the club doesn't support it. aside from all those people, the support would be overwhelming.

I am sorry Crow Mo, but having a stadium in the city isnt going to cause any further spending as most of is only the money being redirected elsewhere. People will buy food in the city as opposed to getting McDonalds etc before or after going to the footy at AAMI, the supporters with families will still want to get home as soon as they can etc. Instead of the going to the lakes hotel etc people will just go to somewhere in the city instead. It could also be argued if the ground was located at the railyards that a majority of people that would be going by public transport would get straight on the train home after the game.

If you wanted to go into semantics that much you can also say that the stadium in the city will be far more evironmentally friendly as more people will attend by public transport, but the real effect of this would be negligent at best just the same as the consumer spending issues if the ground was located in the city.

 

[relapse]

10 years? The plus would even be a pipe dream.

The SANFL isn't going to spend upto $110 million upgrading Footy Park then only to see it go down the tubes in what is a relatively short time bulldoze it and start afresh. Besides we don't fill it now so building another and expecting to fill it is not reality.

There are much more needed infrastructure to be built than a sports stadium, ie schools, hospitals, light rail, roads, etc.

You'll be waiting for a long time. Richmond will even win a GF before we have a new stadium.

What do you mean we dont fill football park ???

The Adelaide games are sold out noone else can go to the games, the reason it isnt filled has to do with clashes with other committments and people that choose to not go every week due to various issues including the stadium.

As for schools they are closing schools down rather than building more. From when I went to school not that long ago there are far less schools around now and they have had to get rid of schools to enough that class sizes in schools are big enough. Shared year levels in primary school never happened when I was in Primary School and now they are pretty much the norm our population isnt growing.

The whole argument that Football Park isnt filled is flawled logic, technically the ground is full. The Adelaide Football Club is at its ceiling limit as far as members go, Football Park IS TOO SMALL for the Adelaide Football Club. If 10k people with paid tickets decide not to turn up for a game it doesnt allow a further 10k people to attend whereas a larger stadium it would allow for far more casual supporters to be able to attend the footy resulting in far higher crowd numbers and being in the city and a newer stadium I guarantee that the attendance rate with members would be far far higher.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I am sorry Crow Mo, but having a stadium in the city isnt going to cause any further spending as most of is only the money being redirected elsewhere. People will buy food in the city as opposed to getting McDonalds etc before or after going to the footy at AAMI, the supporters with families will still want to get home as soon as they can etc. Instead of the going to the lakes hotel etc people will just go to somewhere in the city instead. It could also be argued if the ground was located at the railyards that a majority of people that would be going by public transport would get straight on the train home after the game.

Or like my family and our friends. We have a large bbq in the carpark before hand, afterwards we go to the Shed. It actually is cheaper this way and there is not the stress at trying to leave the ground after a game.

With the stadium in the city - will arrive with the masses closer to game time, most probably in a bad mood due to being packed like a sardine into a tram. It will cost more if you want to eat etc, won't have the catch up before the game with friends who sit in different areas. Afterwards won't hang around as long in the Shed (where will the club be able to afford a club area for members that can fit 3000 people in the city and at what cost?) and putting revenue back into the club, before again being packed into public transport. The main issue I have with going for the public transport instead is that the SA public transport system is close to one of the worst in the world and would need major capital spending on it in order for it come up to scratch to cope with the huge demands on it that would happen on game day. Adelaide is also the size of London (in a physical sense), we are huge spread out city which increases the costs for public transport as well.

 

[Crow-mo]

I am sorry Crow Mo, but having a stadium in the city isnt going to cause any further spending as most of is only the money being redirected elsewhere. People will buy food in the city as opposed to getting McDonalds etc before or after going to the footy at AAMI, the supporters with families will still want to get home as soon as they can etc. Instead of the going to the lakes hotel etc people will just go to somewhere in the city instead. It could also be argued if the ground was located at the railyards that a majority of people that would be going by public transport would get straight on the train home after the game.

ok, no problem. but you can't have it both ways. you can't argue for all this extra economic activity, and deny that it will happen.

If you wanted to go into semantics that much you can also say that the stadium in the city will be far more evironmentally friendly as more people will attend by public transport, but the real effect of this would be negligent at best just the same as the consumer spending issues if the ground was located in the city.

of course the extra consumer spending will be minimal - but I am responding to the argument that it will be substantial by stating it wouldn't be a good thing, if it were to happen.

ps. you still haven't said if you would pay higher taxes to fund the stadium?

 

[Crow-mo]

You know I would be an AWESOME politician, don't make out otherwise.

you might well be, details and substance are not high priority items on your agenda actually maybe you could fool quite a few people

Hey, I'm very fiscally conservative, but yes, I am left of your neo-conservative wonk views.

as you say it's all relative.

With all due respect to folks living in Adelaide, the SA economy over-heating seems like wishful thinking. That's a long way from the under-energised economy of the moment.

very true, but what I am saying is churning the locals is not a desirable growth in economic activity.

And you're right

say it again bitch!

- people do have a finite amount of money. And they will spend it where it feels most exciting. They will currently spend it on tourism outside of SA, on purchasing products where less of the money stays in the local ecosystem.

normal broadcasting will now resume...

well, lets just say that a new stadium is not going to affect peoples choice of holiday destinations.

I don't think it is remotely arguable that moving the Crows stadium to downtown Adelaide wouldn't make going to the football more of an event. You can't argue that it wouldn't energise the downtown area, or it wouldn't increase further visitation down the line by locals coming downtown. And lord knows it WOULD increase the numbers of interstate sporting visitors coming to a game, if that trip just became more enjoyable.

and as you know, I have never said otherwise. I would LOVE a new stadium in the centre. Hell I'd love adelaide oval to hold 60K, and crows games. I'd also love port to play their matches on the oval at salisbury east primary...

but... that doesn't mean it stacks up. Footy park, internationally speaking, is a good venue. local insecurities notwithstanding. it could be improved, but it is a pretty good stadium. Hell I had VIP tickets to the NFL game at the new £1Billion wembley stadium - and while it a bit more comfy, and I have 14,000 different opportunities to consume food and booze or spend money on merchandising, I still could barely see what was going on. however people at home got a great view, because like all new stadiums, they are built to boost the quality of viewing at home, on TV. they create synthetic capacity by improving the home viewing experience - as you know.

we don't need this, and it would be irresponsible to think of this as a priority. so I don't. Mind you if know of a way to stage a coup d'etat and overthrow the trustees of adelaide oval, let me know

And taking this thought to its most positive outcome - it increases the vitality of the city, raising the viability of Adelaide as a potential location for international businesses to establish Australian operations.



Yes, you're right. The challenge of a democracy is that most people are frightened by any form of change and would rather things stayed as they were thirty years ago.

Which I think takes us back to LeCornu's statement, and the time capsule that Adelaide feels like.[/QUOTE]

 

[Southerntakeover]

Or like my family and our friends. We have a large bbq in the carpark before hand, afterwards we go to the Shed. It actually is cheaper this way and there is not the stress at trying to leave the ground after a game.

Sure, but your family has it made in the shade, with the permanent designated driver and all.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Sure, but your family has it made in the shade, with the permanent designated driver and all.

Damn straight!

 

[Mego Red]

Does the State Gov get any of this cash that shifts from West Lakes to the city? Instead of moving the stadium to the city why not move the cafe life to West lakes?

There would still be a higher percentage of see game go home supporters, wherever it was held

It's not cash that shifts, it is new income that is generated by increased visitation - and, yes, they get taxes.

I don't think you can just "invent" cafe life in an area that people don't want to visit.

 

[Mego Red]

With the stadium in the city - will arrive with the masses closer to game time, most probably in a bad mood due to being packed like a sardine into a tram.

Or perhaps they've come earlier because there is actually something to do, and they haven't had to have been caught in traffic and unable to find a park so they're actually happier. They can put on more trains and buses when there is more need, you know ...

It will cost more if you want to eat etc,

Untrue - you could eat at established businesses near the stadium, not be forced to eat at the stadium vendors where they gouge you because they only earn money one day a week and they have a captive audience.

won't have the catch up before the game with friends who sit in different areas.

Why not? They'll still be there. Or you could meet them for coffee beforehand, if you're actually missing them, seeing as you're in the city.

Afterwards won't hang around as long in the Shed (where will the club be able to afford a club area for members that can fit 3000 people in the city and at what cost?) and putting revenue back into the club, before again being packed into public transport.

Or the AFC could have a sports club in the city and a permanent merchandise location instead of having a venue that only makes revenue twenty times a year. If they had a permanent venue, I'd go there for drinks and a schnitzel on a Thursday night, and I watch other games there.

The main issue I have with going for the public transport instead is that the SA public transport system is close to one of the worst in the world and would need major capital spending on it in order for it come up to scratch to cope with the huge demands on it that would happen on game day.

C'mon - that's a ridiculous comment. It already moves thousands of people to and from the games in buses - I've caught it a dozen times from Tea Tree Gully and it's always been fine. And there IS an infrastructure to get people in and out of the city, because thousands have to do THAT every business day, and having more people on public transport increases the revenue to do important upgrades.

It's not going to happen because folks like you don't have the vision. They're happy that Adelaide becomes more and more like a small country town with each year, as more people and businesses leave. And people try to find objective reasons for that, but it happens for the completely subjective reason that Adelaide doesn't feel exciting, and other spots in Australia do. And I don't want to sound like a old whinger, but that wasn't true when I was growing up.

 

[relapse]

ok, no problem. but you can't have it both ways. you can't argue for all this extra economic activity, and deny that it will happen.




of course the extra consumer spending will be minimal - but I am responding to the argument that it will be substantial by stating it wouldn't be a good thing, if it were to happen.

ps. you still haven't said if you would pay higher taxes to fund the stadium?

As long as it is a transparent tax I would be happy to pay it. The problem is that tax/levies come in then become carved in stone and the monies used elsewhere and noone knows where the actual money goes. Does anyone know where the ESL levy goes ?? It originally came in (supposedly to be only for one year) to pay for the motorolla system (that actually never worked) now what is it used for ???? I hope the money now is actually diverted in the various emergency services but to be honest noone actually knows if this is the case or not.

So yes I would be happy to pay extra taxes if it was going solely into funding the stadium and the government was transparent about the money etc.

 

[NikkiNoo]

C'mon - that's a ridiculous comment. It already moves thousands of people to and from the games in buses - I've caught it a dozen times from Tea Tree Gully and it's always been fine. And there IS an infrastructure to get people in and out of the city, because thousands have to do THAT every business day, and having more people on public transport increases the revenue to do important upgrades.

I've caught public transport all over europe and also in New York. The amount of money that was spent on the infrastructure in those cities to get it right in the first place was very good. What happened here in Adelaide when they tried to extend the tram line? How much whining and complaining happened?

It was only one tram line too! I was all for that tram line being extended as I used to catch the tram when I worked at North Adelaide. It's weird that I then had to catch two different buses to get to North Adelaide from Victoria square. I drive to work now and it only takes me 15 mins. If I tried to catch public transport instead I would need to leave almost another 30 minutes before hand from my house and would need to catch 2 buses and would have a wait time at Marion shopping centre in the morning. How ridiculous is that?

As far as I can tell there is a serious lack of vision from Transport SA and that is what I think will cause more problems with a stadium in the city if the same people are in charge.

I'm all for progress but as I have said previously there are more important infrastructure in this state that needs to be seen to first.

I also feel quite cynical after seeing the debacle with the Adelaide City Council and the Grandstand in Victoria Park. They are happy for more money to be spent each year putting up and taking down a temporary stand and longer disruptions to traffic flows into the city while all this occurs each year. Height of stupidity for my mind, and they are the people who would have the ultimate say on Members club for the afc in the city and for a new stadium.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

What do you mean we dont fill football park ???

The Adelaide games are sold out noone else can go to the games, the reason it isnt filled has to do with clashes with other committments and people that choose to not go every week due to various issues including the stadium.

As for schools they are closing schools down rather than building more. From when I went to school not that long ago there are far less schools around now and they have had to get rid of schools to enough that class sizes in schools are big enough. Shared year levels in primary school never happened when I was in Primary School and now they are pretty much the norm our population isnt growing.

The whole argument that Football Park isnt filled is flawled logic, technically the ground is full. The Adelaide Football Club is at its ceiling limit as far as members go, Football Park IS TOO SMALL for the Adelaide Football Club. If 10k people with paid tickets decide not to turn up for a game it doesnt allow a further 10k people to attend whereas a larger stadium it would allow for far more casual supporters to be able to attend the footy resulting in far higher crowd numbers and being in the city and a newer stadium I guarantee that the attendance rate with members would be far far higher.

Firstly I should have used the royal "we" in relation to the statement of filling footy park. When you combine both clubs during the football season the stadium is not filled. It originally was built as the home of all the SANFL sides and planning back then in relation to building such things in this country was in it's infancy. No one had any foresight or plans in relation to expanding into a bigger competition. As well, I don't believe the SANFL has yet finished paying off the loan from the state government for the northern stand. That will take some time.

But to build one today a lot more things must be taken into consideration to make it cost effective. That it has to be a multi-used stadium just to warrant it's building. Basically it has to be used for more than just half of the year.
And to those who think just building one to hold the Commonwealth games for two weeks and then just football, is living in na na land. And my apologies to all na nas.

Regarding the building of new schools, the state government is committed to building 6 new so called super schools as well as a new major hospital.
So putting money into something the major population would consider a burden on government spending when we have a reasonably good one at the minute would be political suicide.

 

[- PC -]

Firstly I should have used the royal "we" in relation to the statement of filling footy park. When you combine both clubs during the football season the stadium is not filled.

This is why I ''get upset'' with the Port franchise. If any major stadium is to be announced there needs to be a house full sign every week.

Also change the Cat 1 so there is full accountability on numbers. Cat 1 can still attend SANFL minor and major round games but not AFL

Then the next step is to look at a viable extension over the Crowmania side of the ground

 

[Markthirtytwo]

As far as I can tell there is a serious lack of vision from Transport SA and that is what I think will cause more problems with a stadium in the city if the same people are in charge.

I think it is more the problem of people not using public transport because it's so easy to move around this town using private vehicles. If it wasn't then there would be a case to improve the transport system. We are spoilt here in relation to the road network as well as the lack of traffic congestion that bigger cities suffer from.

But I do agree all previous governments have been tardy in relation to planning for the future. A case in point being the O-bahn system.
While it was a great infrastructure program, alarm bells should have rung that we were the only city outside of one German city to have it. No one else built one. Now the problem has arisen whereby no bus manufacturer builds the articulated buses that has the stronger flooring to use it. And as the current ones are now nearing their use by date, more single buses will have to be bought used thereby clogging up the city at peak hour.

 

[relapse]

Or like my family and our friends. We have a large bbq in the carpark before hand, afterwards we go to the Shed. It actually is cheaper this way and there is not the stress at trying to leave the ground after a game.

With the stadium in the city - will arrive with the masses closer to game time, most probably in a bad mood due to being packed like a sardine into a tram. It will cost more if you want to eat etc, won't have the catch up before the game with friends who sit in different areas. Afterwards won't hang around as long in the Shed (where will the club be able to afford a club area for members that can fit 3000 people in the city and at what cost?) and putting revenue back into the club, before again being packed into public transport. The main issue I have with going for the public transport instead is that the SA public transport system is close to one of the worst in the world and would need major capital spending on it in order for it come up to scratch to cope with the huge demands on it that would happen on game day. Adelaide is also the size of London (in a physical sense), we are huge spread out city which increases the costs for public transport as well.

Having it based in the rail yards will mean that it can be located next to a train station so all the people that are serviced by the train can immediately go to the station to depart home.

Handling things after the game wouldnt be too much different to the 5-6pm period with people leaving work It would be a million times better than the joke of a system we have going down to football park. The infrastructure is already there. Have some trams waiting to go etc, the night games finish around 9:30 so plenty of time for people get buses home etc.

Only upto 3k out of the 50,000 go to the shed etc most people are like a majority of us either paying a ridiculous amount of money for a car park or having to trek for 20 minutes to get back to your car for a 40min+ drive home. The majority of the people are sick of it, as you rightly said our public transport system is bad so let not continue to have places like football park isolated in the suburbs, the public are now speaking against it, the location and state of the ground itself are playing a part in the non attendance rates. by the public opinion it is for a change, yes there will be some culture changes for people, but like with everything that happens there will be some that dont like or agree with it.

The people of Adelaide and especially the Adelaide Football Club need at least a bigger capacity stadium that is the main priority the second preferably in the CBD, but we definately need something 65-70k

 

[KingsCrow]

I've caught public transport all over europe and also in New York. The amount of money that was spent on the infrastructure in those cities to get it right in the first place was very good. What happened here in Adelaide when they tried to extend the tram line? How much whining and complaining happened?

It was only one tram line too! I was all for that tram line being extended as I used to catch the tram when I worked at North Adelaide. It's weird that I then had to catch two different buses to get to North Adelaide from Victoria square. I drive to work now and it only takes me 15 mins. If I tried to catch public transport instead I would need to leave almost another 30 minutes before hand from my house and would need to catch 2 buses and would have a wait time at Marion shopping centre in the morning. How ridiculous is that?

As far as I can tell there is a serious lack of vision from Transport SA and that is what I think will cause more problems with a stadium in the city if the same people are in charge.

I'm all for progress but as I have said previously there are more important infrastructure in this state that needs to be seen to first.

I also feel quite cynical after seeing the debacle with the Adelaide City Council and the Grandstand in Victoria Park. They are happy for more money to be spent each year putting up and taking down a temporary stand and longer disruptions to traffic flows into the city while all this occurs each year. Height of stupidity for my mind, and they are the people who would have the ultimate say on Members club for the afc in the city and for a new stadium.

Oh c'mon Nikki. We are a city of 1,000,000 people with only 20,000 or so LIVING in our actual city. Comparing out public transport with European cities is not a fair comparison.

ALSO you must remember when you CENTRALISE transport becomes cheaper and much easier to use. Putting a stadium in the city will mean TransAdelaide won't have to worry about the Footy Express and the Bus Lanes can be converted back to normal lanes etc. The infrastructure in Adelaide is already there, and it can be upgraded to be used all year long (which will happen if 40,000 odd people come into the city every weekend for a sporting event)

Putting a stadium in the city will work wonders for the businesses. New shops will open, investment and confidence will be even higher in the city. The City will come alive as it does when the Clipsal and Fringe is on. Catch up with Mates at the pub, have a barbie in the Parklands (YES the parklands will actually get used)

As Kristov said its just sad that some people don't see this. The deralic AAMI is a disgrace and its a chance to start over again.

 

[beagle2]

It's not cash that shifts, it is new income that is generated by increased visitation - and, yes, they get taxes.

.

Of course it is cash that shifts .This money is currently being spent somewhereelse New money will not appear out of nowhere

 

[relapse]

Firstly I should have used the royal "we" in relation to the statement of filling footy park. When you combine both clubs during the football season the stadium is not filled. It originally was built as the home of all the SANFL sides and planning back then in relation to building such things in this country was in it's infancy. No one had any foresight or plans in relation to expanding into a bigger competition. As well, I don't believe the SANFL has yet finished paying off the loan from the state government for the northern stand. That will take some time.

But to build one today a lot more things must be taken into consideration to make it cost effective. That it has to be a multi-used stadium just to warrant it's building. Basically it has to be used for more than just half of the year.
And to those who think just building one to hold the Commonwealth games for two weeks and then just football, is living in na na land. And my apologies to all na nas.

Regarding the building of new schools, the state government is committed to building 6 new so called super schools as well as a new major hospital.
So putting money into something the major population would consider a burden on government spending when we have a reasonably good one at the minute would be political suicide.

Yeah it would be, you can also get rid of hindmarsh and use it for soccer in the summer and also use it for events like Telstra Dome is used in Melbourne

 

[James23]

no chance of getting rid of hindmarsh.. government recently put 25 million into it, also getting adelaide united crowds of approx. 10,000 in a new 50,000+ arena would be stupid. add to the fact that hindmarsh is a wonderful stadium regardless.

 

[Mego Red]

Of course it is cash that shifts .This money is currently being spent somewhereelse New money will not appear out of nowhere

Read what I was responding to.

The statement was "cash that was shifting from West Lakes to the City". I responded to say that it isn't just cash shifting from what is aready being spent in West Lakes, because I don't think many people stick around at West Lakes to spend anything.