Very naughty of you to be so selective V.C. You clearly have a future as a sports journo.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/richo-and-hall-tell-ablett-take-the-money-20100321-qo5p.html
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List Mgmt. Ablett to move to Gold Coast
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http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/richo-and-hall-tell-ablett-take-the-money-20100321-qo5p.html
TheMightyAchilles
Club Legend
Hird's standing and reputation and value as a speaker is based on his honesty and integrity. He has currency after football because of his actions during his career.
If i was gazz, and i was not going to leave Geelong i would be pissed being pictured in a GC top, not at my coach encourageing me to stay a cat.
I think Pickers is doing a lot of damage, damage that can't be undone.
Jess Smith will never be welcomed back at North, and Pickers needs to take responsibility.
Pickers needs to decide whther he is a manager or a commentator, you simply can't be both. For example in the Hawk - GFC game, Buddy breaks Gazza's jaw what does the impartial one say - i didn't see it.
Sooner the ego's have one job, and do it well the better off we will all be.
gazz needs to end the circus he created. And i would encourage the AFL to investigate who paid for the O/S trip as it was a fringe benefit he received, but that would be a conflict of interest would it not.
Geez I'm shocked 2 players from the same club challenging for this year's flag would dearly love to see another flag favourite weakened by having 1 of their superstars leave. Who would have thunk it?
*roll eyes overload*Well said Jimmy, Hird is about only person with links to the bummers that I can respect.
The Exorcist
Club Legend
Don't think Caro said Ablett had signed, she simply said he's being pursued and there's revelations that star AFL players (didn't specifically name Ablett) have been signed.
But I think we know what she was getting at ...
I have always been the optimist and thought he would stay and comments like Cameron Mooney's were because he is brutally honest and strong bond between the group. The Cotton On thing made me more convinced that Ablett would stay. If anything I thought that Ablett was close to signing if not agreed he was signing. I took the line that even if he didn't publicly say it - it may be because Geelong want a chance to re-sign other players before letting the GC know Ablett is unavailable.
However, the world has been left no doubts about what Pickering is suggesting Ablett do. Pickering is a former player yes but Andrew Demetriou is also a former Kangaroo so past loyalty means little. Pickering's comments are nothing short of making a bigger rift and distraction and hence I believe its likely that Ablett is gone. He possibly is already signed over summer. Perhaps Pickering is just refusing to talk to Geelong and there is a bit of hostility behind the scenes. There is obviously some hostility with some of the things that are leaked. I find it hard to believe that its coincidental that Buddy and Ablett's situations are being handled so differently. I suspect Pickering is going for the blame Geelong line. He will wait until Geelong says enough is enough and then try blame the club. Ablett needs a major scapegoat if he wants credibility after leaving Geelong. I suspect he will fail on the GC, great player but I don't know if he would be anywhere near as effective at a lesser club.
I have written off any chance of Ablett playing with Geelong in 2011 and its a shame. Instead of being remembered as one of the greats of a Geelong super team, he will go down possibly as a traitor and greedy. It will tarnish the loyal and bond that is great about this team. That being said, its a lot of money but it's sad. It is about time that the Ablett/Pickering camp was honest about whether he is going to stay or not. Even a "I'm committed to the GFC" etc but nothing is ever said. It may be because he is not great with the media but I'm starting to doubt this more.
However, the world has been left no doubts about what Pickering is suggesting Ablett do. Pickering is a former player yes but Andrew Demetriou is also a former Kangaroo so past loyalty means little. Pickering's comments are nothing short of making a bigger rift and distraction and hence I believe its likely that Ablett is gone. He possibly is already signed over summer. Perhaps Pickering is just refusing to talk to Geelong and there is a bit of hostility behind the scenes. There is obviously some hostility with some of the things that are leaked. I find it hard to believe that its coincidental that Buddy and Ablett's situations are being handled so differently. I suspect Pickering is going for the blame Geelong line. He will wait until Geelong says enough is enough and then try blame the club. Ablett needs a major scapegoat if he wants credibility after leaving Geelong. I suspect he will fail on the GC, great player but I don't know if he would be anywhere near as effective at a lesser club.
I have written off any chance of Ablett playing with Geelong in 2011 and its a shame. Instead of being remembered as one of the greats of a Geelong super team, he will go down possibly as a traitor and greedy. It will tarnish the loyal and bond that is great about this team. That being said, its a lot of money but it's sad. It is about time that the Ablett/Pickering camp was honest about whether he is going to stay or not. Even a "I'm committed to the GFC" etc but nothing is ever said. It may be because he is not great with the media but I'm starting to doubt this more.
Geez I'm shocked 2 players from the same club challenging for this year's flag would dearly love to see another flag favourite weakened by having 1 of their superstars leave. Who would have thunk it?
Well said Jimmy, Hird is about only person with links to the bummers that I can respect.
Careful now rz, Hirdy's remarks look awfully like an application for the 2011 head coach position with Gaz as one of his troops.
TMA. I'm as critical of Pickers for his public utterances as you. But he is also the manager of Buddy Franklin who got on the front foot immediately there was speculation about him going to the GC saying he wanted to remain a Hawk. Both Gaz and Buddy are managed by the same character but have widely different public attitudes. Join the dots.
No comment from Vinum Coupe today. We forgive you for misleading us V.C
Wouild have loved Hall's response to whether say Shaun Higgins, or Cooney would have his blessing to leave for the GC $. Surely the Dogs are hoping anything to destabilize the Cats will help their cause this year. Or would Hall be too dumb to think like that? These older guys commenting on Ablett being mad if he didn't go shit me because Ablett still has a good 7-8 years of playing.
A.M. I agree with most of what you say but I believe Pickering is heavily on the take over getting Gary to the GC.
This explains his duplicitous behaviour regarding his different clients and more relevantly Buddy and Gaz.
On the one hand trying to maintain a forthright and transparent exterior whilst on the other hand being completely unprofessional, deceptive and more recently irrational. Not sure you can blame Gaz for all that.
Money is often the lure that makes weaker types unravel.
This explains his duplicitous behaviour regarding his different clients and more relevantly Buddy and Gaz.
On the one hand trying to maintain a forthright and transparent exterior whilst on the other hand being completely unprofessional, deceptive and more recently irrational. Not sure you can blame Gaz for all that.
Money is often the lure that makes weaker types unravel.
Understand where your coming from THP, but Gaz is the employer, Pickers is the employee. Bottom line, Gaz makes the calls. I think Buddy made it clear there would be no tale wagging the dog in his relationship with Pickering.
TheMightyAchilles
Club Legend
I would like the following questions answered as i would think people might give this whole matter a second thought.
1. What payments have been made to G.Ablett in retirement, from the club, sponsors etc
2. What was nath's remuneration whilst playing for gfc, specifically in his year off
3. who paid for gazza's os trip
If anyone thinks there will be a happy ending, you will be very surprised. GFC have come to broad terms with Selwood. They fear that Pickers will blame this for the reason that Gazz can't stay, ie not enough room to pay him a decent salary. There is a PR war on at moment, and people forget how bad the last year of Judd as a WCE was. People need to remember the WCE played Judas into the ground as they knew he was going.
Gazza, through his employee is making a number of comments and demands, and thinks there is no counter. The longer this goes the Stronger the GFC hand gets, and the less sympathy that will be attributable to Gazza.
Pickers forgets that as soon as the season starts, any losses will be attributed to team disharmony (due to Gazz), and his poor performances will be due to the stress of his situation. This is the risk when one chases the $$$, and the club that was overly protective lets you loose.
Pickers is an amateur manager.
1. What payments have been made to G.Ablett in retirement, from the club, sponsors etc
2. What was nath's remuneration whilst playing for gfc, specifically in his year off
3. who paid for gazza's os trip
If anyone thinks there will be a happy ending, you will be very surprised. GFC have come to broad terms with Selwood. They fear that Pickers will blame this for the reason that Gazz can't stay, ie not enough room to pay him a decent salary. There is a PR war on at moment, and people forget how bad the last year of Judd as a WCE was. People need to remember the WCE played Judas into the ground as they knew he was going.
Gazza, through his employee is making a number of comments and demands, and thinks there is no counter. The longer this goes the Stronger the GFC hand gets, and the less sympathy that will be attributable to Gazza.
Pickers forgets that as soon as the season starts, any losses will be attributed to team disharmony (due to Gazz), and his poor performances will be due to the stress of his situation. This is the risk when one chases the $$$, and the club that was overly protective lets you loose.
Pickers is an amateur manager.
She implied she's been "told' by Geelong officials that GAJ's shenanigans are likely to upset our Premiership defence. Scurrilous and just gossip-mongering if sources are not named.
It is excruciating observing this all play out...
In the end, I think it's pretty simple, though.
Gazza wants lots and lots of money, and as a result is very interested in seeing exactly what's on offer at GC.
He's very happy to show them he'd 'consider' leaving, as long as they come up with an offer he can't refuse.
At the same time, conducting negotiations with the GC lights a fire under the Cats. We start running in all directions trying to raise additional funds (primarily through these third-party deals), and Gazza's payday [should he stay] improves considerably.
Junior really likes the club, but he also loves the cash. Giving the GC every indication he'd be interested at their top dollar figure means he can drive an auction for his services.
I think he'd like to stay, but he's not prepared to take too much of a hit in the hip pocket to do so. Loyalty for Gaz only extends so far.
I think he's 80-20 to go, but he's happy for the Cats to run around maniacally chasing top-up funds. This could then make it potentially possible for him to stay without losing too much cash.
Reality is Pickers was always going to carry on like this - his payday is in direct proportion to Junior's. And his position in the media is a ridiculous element in the mix, meaning he's paid to have an opinion about his own client's progress in negotiations. Just insane...
(By the way, nobody could seriously think that the meeting that was 'busted' on the GC was a bungled covert operation. Pickers was delighted for this gathering to become public knowledge so that the Cats would know it was time to pull out all the stops in framing the final Ablett offer).
I don't believe that any of the other factors (playing with Nath/close to family, being a captain, living away from the Geelong 'fishbowl') have anything like the significance of the dollar signs for Gaz.
I'm not sure we can win another flag without him, but I still believe the club needs to hold the line and ensure the rest of the list understands how much we value their solidarity. Gaz will do what he will do.
Hopefully the incredibly strong culture developed at the club in recent years (including the appointment of another excellent skipper in 'Linga') will allow us to give 2010 a massive shot, despite the fact that this uncertainty could go all the way to the back end of the season. Junior won't decide until the last cent has been squeezed from the GC and GFC war chests. When those figures are sorted, unless we can get the numbers within 20%-25% of the GC offer, I can only see him walking.
We need to prioritize signing #14 (for as long as possible), and let this unseemly circus run its course...
In the end, I think it's pretty simple, though.
Gazza wants lots and lots of money, and as a result is very interested in seeing exactly what's on offer at GC.
He's very happy to show them he'd 'consider' leaving, as long as they come up with an offer he can't refuse.
At the same time, conducting negotiations with the GC lights a fire under the Cats. We start running in all directions trying to raise additional funds (primarily through these third-party deals), and Gazza's payday [should he stay] improves considerably.
Junior really likes the club, but he also loves the cash. Giving the GC every indication he'd be interested at their top dollar figure means he can drive an auction for his services.
I think he'd like to stay, but he's not prepared to take too much of a hit in the hip pocket to do so. Loyalty for Gaz only extends so far.
I think he's 80-20 to go, but he's happy for the Cats to run around maniacally chasing top-up funds. This could then make it potentially possible for him to stay without losing too much cash.
Reality is Pickers was always going to carry on like this - his payday is in direct proportion to Junior's. And his position in the media is a ridiculous element in the mix, meaning he's paid to have an opinion about his own client's progress in negotiations. Just insane...
(By the way, nobody could seriously think that the meeting that was 'busted' on the GC was a bungled covert operation. Pickers was delighted for this gathering to become public knowledge so that the Cats would know it was time to pull out all the stops in framing the final Ablett offer).
I don't believe that any of the other factors (playing with Nath/close to family, being a captain, living away from the Geelong 'fishbowl') have anything like the significance of the dollar signs for Gaz.
I'm not sure we can win another flag without him, but I still believe the club needs to hold the line and ensure the rest of the list understands how much we value their solidarity. Gaz will do what he will do.
Hopefully the incredibly strong culture developed at the club in recent years (including the appointment of another excellent skipper in 'Linga') will allow us to give 2010 a massive shot, despite the fact that this uncertainty could go all the way to the back end of the season. Junior won't decide until the last cent has been squeezed from the GC and GFC war chests. When those figures are sorted, unless we can get the numbers within 20%-25% of the GC offer, I can only see him walking.
We need to prioritize signing #14 (for as long as possible), and let this unseemly circus run its course...
Interesting read except with it now becoming common knowledge that Gary last year may have signed an in principle agreement to join the GC
with still a year to run on his contract at Geelong, neither Pickering or Gary will be "delighted" they were ever seen on the GC at that time.
Regardless of whether he stays or not that was poor decision making.
If anything goes awry this season, Gary and Liam have placed alot of unnecessary pressure on themselves and the scrutiny will only intensify.
Going after the cash is one thing. Setting yourself up as a target is a very different scenario all together. Other big name players have shown how to negotiate a contract without holding their club to ransom eg Joel Selwood.
Zane Taylor
Senior List
Gary Ablett must be staying.
Gary Ablett must be staying.
Because Grant Thomas said on 'Footy Classifieds' that he's already gone. When has he ever been right about anything to do with the GFC?
Gary Ablett must be staying.
Because Grant Thomas said on 'Footy Classifieds' that he's already gone. When has he ever been right about anything to do with the GFC?
How would such an 'in principle' agreement work? If it's signed, doesn't that mean it's done? If not, what's the benefit of signing it?
I hear what you're saying when you suggest they didn't want the meeting on the Coast discovered; however, the fact they made no effort to have this meeting in private seems incomprehensible to me. If it's that important to keep it quiet, why not take the precautions to ensure nobody finds out? It's either amateur hour (don't tell me either Pickers or Gaz didn't think that somebody on the GC - home of thousands of Vics from years past - might recognise them?) or a calculated decision on their part. I still have to back the second contingency here.
Totally agree with your closing point, and therein lies the difference. Selwood is class on and off the paddock, while Gaz is not able to replicate his heroic deeds on the field with commensurate loyalty off it. Just different human beings, that's all.
The "benefit" of signing the in principle agreement in theory was to ensure Gary is going to the GC without telling anyone that's his intentions. He gets to play the last season of his contract without letting the world know he has already agreed to play on elsewhere in 2011. Now that this "loophole" in the system has become common knowledge and the AFL has admitted it exists, it has cancelled out any perceived benefit of these signings. Of course at this stage this is merely speculation at this point.
If it was a contrived stunt as you suggest, I still dont think they get the significance of it now that rumours have leaked about the potential to have signed to the GC at that time. Staying silent all this time since has done them no favours at all. Reputations get ruined with stuff like this even if he stays.
I think your assessment of the human element here, where he loves the club and loves the cash as well, was well put. I am not here to judge individuals, just to assess their decisions as it relates to the GFC.
I think Gaz is banking on the fact that, if he stays, all the bad press of recent times will be forgiven when all the hyperbole emerges about how 'loyal' he's been.
If he goes it's bad press all the way as far as Cats fans are concerned, and I think he knows this. That's why making all the overtures to the GC and sitting tight is palatable to him. After all, it could earn him a truckload of additional cash, and the backlash on leaving the Cats is going to be bad however he handles it.
Let's face it, we've seen legends from other clubs hang on while they get paid far less and play for a club significantly weaker than ours is at the moment. If Gaz leaves, there's no real way to reconcile the fact that he loves the club as much as we'd like to think he does, and his reputation with Cats fans must suffer as a result. Not as a player, just as a GFC legend.
Take your point completely about judging human beings - if I sounded judgemental that wasn't the intention. Simply observing that different people are driven by different factors to different degrees. Gary's conduct in this matter is primarily driven by what I believe is most important to him -a fantastic payday to set him up for life. That's not wrong - it's just different (to how we'd like it to be, anyway).
If he goes it's bad press all the way as far as Cats fans are concerned, and I think he knows this. That's why making all the overtures to the GC and sitting tight is palatable to him. After all, it could earn him a truckload of additional cash, and the backlash on leaving the Cats is going to be bad however he handles it.
Let's face it, we've seen legends from other clubs hang on while they get paid far less and play for a club significantly weaker than ours is at the moment. If Gaz leaves, there's no real way to reconcile the fact that he loves the club as much as we'd like to think he does, and his reputation with Cats fans must suffer as a result. Not as a player, just as a GFC legend.
Take your point completely about judging human beings - if I sounded judgemental that wasn't the intention. Simply observing that different people are driven by different factors to different degrees. Gary's conduct in this matter is primarily driven by what I believe is most important to him -a fantastic payday to set him up for life. That's not wrong - it's just different (to how we'd like it to be, anyway).
Wild Cat 14
Rookie
- Aug 1, 2009
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- Geelong
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...on-mark-thompson/story-e6frf9jf-1225844193325
This is really getting interesting now IMO. Can't help but think that we have seen a little bit of Sheedy in Bomber over the last 6 months. First the comment at the 150 year dinner last year about the players finding something to win another flag, then the comment at the season launch to Gaz last week and now this. He's playing a good poker hand I reckon - will be interstsing to see how long Gaz & Pickers can go before they blink. Surely if this media frenzy goes on week after week into the season its going to drive Gaz (and the club) mad, if its not already.
This is really getting interesting now IMO. Can't help but think that we have seen a little bit of Sheedy in Bomber over the last 6 months. First the comment at the 150 year dinner last year about the players finding something to win another flag, then the comment at the season launch to Gaz last week and now this. He's playing a good poker hand I reckon - will be interstsing to see how long Gaz & Pickers can go before they blink. Surely if this media frenzy goes on week after week into the season its going to drive Gaz (and the club) mad, if its not already.
"Ablett Has Made Up His Mind" says Bomber
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/90879/default.aspx
Interesting move 3 days out from Rd 1
Sounds like the Cats have had enough to me.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/90879/default.aspx
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/90879/default.aspx
Interesting move 3 days out from Rd 1
Sounds like the Cats have had enough to me.
You make some good points. If he leaves there will be backlash no matter what, very true. My concerns relate to the club and their ability to function and sign other players and stay near the top of the ladder. If another quality player is lost through all this deception I wont be happy at all. Even if he stays now I think there will be some residual muck regardless of spin.
I didnt think you were being particularly judgemental, and probably should have been more precise with what I was saying as I was making more of a general comment about some of the personal stuff said on these public forums about private people. Its impossible to make commentary without it sounding personal at times I guess, even if its largely club related chat.
Big Fozza
Premiership Player
Re: "Ablett Has Made Up His Mind" says Bomber
interesting comment by Bomber. it comes across that he thinks that gary has already decided to go and not to stay. i don't understand why he would make the comment though...
interesting comment by Bomber. it comes across that he thinks that gary has already decided to go and not to stay. i don't understand why he would make the comment though...
I agree with Thompson in trying to draw out the bluff.
The other point is Bomber has a football side to run. He has 47 blokes on the list and cant simply be focusing himself on 1 person. Gary has gotten himself into this position and needs to find a way out of it. Bomber has offered him the avenue to do this, but is Gary willing to take the smart rd? Time's running out.
Pure_Ownage
TheBrownDog
Re: "Ablett Has Made Up His Mind" says Bomber
I he knew Garry was going surely he'd say so.
I think it's more Bomber believes he is going, and in the event of that, is trying to flush out an official decision announcement from him.
Could merely be a strategy to try and bring it to a head soon (for the sake of the 2010 season), or he could really be gone
I he knew Garry was going surely he'd say so.
I think it's more Bomber believes he is going, and in the event of that, is trying to flush out an official decision announcement from him.
Could merely be a strategy to try and bring it to a head soon (for the sake of the 2010 season), or he could really be gone
Pure_Ownage
TheBrownDog
Agreed...surely they'll make a decision in the next 6 weeks or so....otherwise it will be utter chaos (which among other things, makes me more nervous about having Gaz in my DT
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